Author Topic: Metroid Prime Discussion (Read 12122 times)

theaveng · « **on:** March 22, 2003, 09:31:47 AM »

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Originally posted by: theaveng
You would have a good point if this was a book, but it isn't. This is a video game... key word: video. They should be using videos to tell the story.

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Originally posted by: blackgriffen
Believe it or not they were called video games before they had videos in them.

Yes, I know. Look at my signature... I've been playing video games since 1977. However, *today's* video games have the ability and ample 1,500,000,000 bytes of space to include talking video logs from the Chozo/Pirates instead of text, so why not use that ability? In my opinion, they should have.

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Originally posted by: blackgriffen
Text is longer lived, doesn't require a special player, or special recorder. It also doesn't require a power source, and if you're leaving messages for someone in the future, as the Chozo were, you shouldn't depend on the presence of a functioning power source.

If Samus' suit can translate text, it can certainly translate any digital video. And power? If the Chozo were concerned about power loss, why not use conventional doors instead of powered? I don't think power loss was their primary concern.

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Originally posted by: blackgriffen
It's a waste of space to make videos when text will serve the same function (in both the game's reality, and our own where cut-scenes take up a lot of disc space).

Good point, although Kingdom Hearts was able to include 11 full-sized levels and 4 hours worth of cutscenes. With half as many levels, I'm sure a similar amount of cutscenes could have been squeezed into Matroid Prime. It's just a couple of video logs... something to break up the monotony.
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All of the above comes to this: I found the *routine* of running into a room/scanning/reading, running into the next room/scanning/reading, repeat over-and-over-and-over to be very tedious. It was okay for the first 10 hours, but the last 15 was a real chore to finish. And in my *opinion* video logs to break up the monotony of a very, very long game would have been nice. Final Fantasy does it. Zelda: Wind Waker does it. IMHO, Metroid should have done it too.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2003, 09:34:55 AM »

Yeah, you're a bit eccentric, man- posting six new threads just to carry on an argument from an early thread? This is a message board, man- don't make yourself look any nerdier than you already are.

Gibdo Master · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2003, 09:55:15 AM »

What the hell is the deal theaveng. Every time you post something it gets posted like five or six times. It's getting rather annoying. Also why the hell are you relpying to people's posts by making a new topic.

Stex · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2003, 11:04:40 AM »

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Originally posted by: theaveng

If Samus' suit can translate text, it can certainly translate any digital video. And power? If the Chozo were concerned about power loss, why not use conventional doors instead of powered? I don't think power loss was their primary concern.

I would imagine that those doors were put in place by the Pirates as a security measure. Regarding the use of video in the Pirate and Chozo things, I think it would be impratical to use them since a lot of the lore and data were about things that appeared later in the game. I know I'd rather experience the susprise of seeing an enemy first when I go to fight it rather than in a video beforehand.

Rogue · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2003, 12:07:12 PM »

I think a mixture of text and short video sequences for the pirate logs would have worked well. Maybe have short footage of a creature being mutated by the phazon. Or something.

Maybe in Metroid 6.

EL Pollo DIablos · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2003, 06:01:18 AM »

My opinion isthat Metroid prime is easy. Same for Ridley.
Not to much effort.

EL Pollo Diablos

theaveng · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2003, 04:49:54 AM »

I played Metroid Prime a second time yesterday, and it's a LOT better. When you're not wasting time scanning/hunting for stuff, the game is a lot faster-paced. It's one boss battle after another. Still... my opinion remainds the same: During the first time through (25 hours for me), some variety with video logs or cutscenes would have been nice.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2003, 05:24:49 AM »

I like the way they did stuff in Metroid Prime. . . you had to have some signs of intelligence to understand everything. And audio/video stuff? Tell me, how would a Chozo sound, and what would a space pirate sound like, translated to English. Please.

Hemmorrhoid · « **Reply #8 on:** March 24, 2003, 06:53:20 AM »

While I think video was unnecessary and not missing in Metroid Prime I do hope they make you do less scanning in MP2.
Maybe not have scanning at all. And I actually wouldnt be surprised if it doesnt.
They new MP (MP2) might be so very much different it wouldnt even feel like a new MP but more like a new game.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #9 on:** March 24, 2003, 09:49:28 AM »

I thought it added to the effect. . . made it more believable, much cooler. . .

BlackGriffen · « **Reply #10 on:** March 24, 2003, 10:55:52 AM »

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Originally posted by: theaveng
Yes, I know. Look at my signature... I've been playing video games since 1977. However, *today's* video games have the ability and ample 1,500,000,000 bytes of space to include talking video logs from the Chozo/Pirates instead of text, so why not use that ability? In my opinion, they should have.

Just because one can do a thing does not mean one should do a thing. Compare the paintings of the impressionists with the renaissance. The paintings of the impressionists are technically less advanced (as far as accurate representation is concerned), despite the fact that the painters had access to more technology and techniques than their predecessors. In spite of this, impressionists do a much better job of creating a mood from simple scenes than the renaissance masters.

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If Samus' suit can translate text, it can certainly translate any digital video. And power? If the Chozo were concerned about power loss, why not use conventional doors instead of powered? I don't think power loss was their primary concern.

Translation is a non-issue (the suit was made by the Chozo, after all). The primary issue is data integrity. The more compact the data representation, the more vulnerable the data is to the vagaries of time and degredation. Text on a wall is almost as durable as the wall. Electronic data is, by comparison, fleeting. I do admit that pictures and/or some videos of the pirates experiments would have been cool (perhaps something you can get at in the log book, I wouldn't want it to interrupt the game). Not the Chozo, though, I like them mysterious (this is the first game where we actually heard something about them besides that they existed and made statues that carry powerups).

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All of the above comes to this: I found the *routine* of running into a room/scanning/reading, running into the next room/scanning/reading, repeat over-and-over-and-over to be very tedious. It was okay for the first 10 hours, but the last 15 was a real chore to finish. And in my *opinion* video logs to break up the monotony of a very, very long game would have been nice. Final Fantasy does it. Zelda: Wind Waker does it. IMHO, Metroid should have done it too.

You know, there's a way to break up a game called putting it down. Set down the controller, and walk away for a bit. The old Metroids were meant to be capable of being played in a marathon, MP is not. Also, why did you spend so much time scanning and reading? I scanned every enemy type once (in the game), and the computer screens (cause I liked reading about the pirates running scared

). I spent at least as much time in battle as scanning/reading. I do need to go back to unlock some galleries. I just don't remember doing as much scanning as you seem to describe.

BlackGriffen

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #11 on:** March 24, 2003, 11:07:57 AM »

Scanning is by no means necessary, although I think it makes the game a LOT more ambient and atmospheric for reasons I've already stated. I'd be very surprised if scanning was absent from the Metroid Prime 2 because on the whole, almost everybody really enjoyed it- there were only small, scattered groups of people who didn't like it, although I find it odd they didn't discover that you don't HAVE to scan everything that's scannable, nor do you reall have to scan anything at all. It's like reading signs in Zelda or talking to NPC's in RPG's- you don't have to, but they're there for the people that do enjoy them. Scanning the story meant that people who wanted a more action packed adventure could have that while the people who wanted a deeper story could have that as well.

And let me say this as well, theaveng- GOOD games are not meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator and may take a different route in their presentation. If you don't like it, well that's not our problem, and it's certainly not the developers'.

kennyb27 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2003, 11:54:53 AM »

Just my opinion, but this *really* needs to be dropped, I believe D. Bloodworth of the site locked the other for reasons. No offense meant to anyone by this post, but everyone who wanted a say has had a say, and picking apart each other's words so that a word's connotation (or sometimes not even that "concrete") has far exceeded the original purpose of the user.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #13 on:** March 24, 2003, 01:33:34 PM »

I scanned all of my stuff, but didn't bother reading it. Then, one day, I spent nearly an hour reading all the information I had.

Also, just because something can translate text does not mean it can do anything else. Go to an online translator and try to translate a movie, it won't work. I take it as granted that Samus's suit can do that, but it's still a silly comment to make.

PIAC · « **Reply #14 on:** March 24, 2003, 02:10:17 PM »

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Scanning is by no means necessary, although I think it makes the game a LOT more ambient and atmospheric for reasons I've already stated. I'd be very surprised if scanning was absent from the Metroid Prime 2 because one the whole, almost everybody really enjoyed it- there were onyl small, scattered groups of people who didn't like it, although I find it odd they didn't discover that you don't HAVE to scan everything that's scannable, nor do you reall have to scan anything at all. It's like reading Sings in Zelda or talking to NPC's in RPG's- you don't have to, but they're there for the people that do enjoy them. Scanning the story meant that people who wanted a more action packed adventure could have that while the people who wanted a deeper story could have that as well.

And let me say this as well, theaveng- GOOD games are not meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator and may take a different route in their presentation. If you don't like it, well that's not our problem, and it's certainly not the developers'.

once again mouse_clicker i agree, while i haven't played metroid yet (only like a week to go

) i do know that scanning isn't manditory, so yeah if you dont want todo it dont! no need to complain, personally i cant wait till i have metroid and can scan stuff

it sounds very apealing

btw, can i quote you again mouse_clicker?

you say smart stuff

edit: it would apear my sig is too full =\ cant add another top notch mouse_clicker quote

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #15 on:** March 24, 2003, 03:01:01 PM »

Too bad you can't fit a new quote, but you don't need permission in the future.

It's not often I've had people quote me, so I'll take any chance I can get.

theaveng · « **Reply #16 on:** March 26, 2003, 05:04:54 AM »

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
. If you don't like it, well that's not our problem, and it's certainly not the developers'.

Yes, nevertheless I AM entitled to express my opinion. It's called Free Speech. Just as you are entitled to say, "Metroid was great!" I am entitled to say, "Metroid was kinda boring." The soliders in Iraq are fighting and dying to protect that right.

theaveng · « **Reply #17 on:** March 26, 2003, 05:05:05 AM »

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
. If you don't like it, well that's not our problem, and it's certainly not the developers'.

Yes, nevertheless I AM entitled to express my opinion. It's called Free Speech. Just as you are entitled to say, "Metroid was great!" I am entitled to say, "Metroid was kinda boring." The soliders in Iraq are fighting and dying to protect that right.

theaveng · « **Reply #18 on:** March 26, 2003, 05:05:06 AM »

ENDING: I feel a little ripped off. In Original Metroid and Super Metroid, Samus removes her suit and displays her beautiful body in a bikini. In Metroid Prime, all we saw was her head. Bummer. :-(

SAVING: Why on earth can't I use slot B for saving? What a load of crap. (Ditto Starfox Adventures.) Both slots are there, so why not let me use both of them?

theaveng · « **Reply #19 on:** March 26, 2003, 05:05:07 AM »

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
And audio/video stuff? Tell me, how would a Chozo sound, and what would a space pirate sound like, translated to English. Please.

I imagine the Pirates would sound like N'Grath and Chozo like Kosh in Babylon 5.

theaveng · « **Reply #20 on:** March 26, 2003, 05:06:39 AM »

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Scanning is by no means necessary, although I think it makes the game a LOT more ambient and atmospheric for reasons I've already stated.

Just curious... how would you play the game without scanning? How would you know where to go next? Or how to defeat the enemy blocking your path?

PIAC · « **Reply #21 on:** March 26, 2003, 08:17:22 AM »

good ole fashion trial and error? read a FAQ? ask what your friends did?

Hemmorrhoid · « **Reply #22 on:** March 26, 2003, 09:21:26 AM »

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Originally posted by: theaveng
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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Scanning is by no means necessary, although I think it makes the game a LOT more ambient and atmospheric for reasons I've already stated.
Just curious... how would you play the game without scanning? How would you know where to go next? Or how to defeat the enemy blocking your path?

Well, since theres games that need no scanning it ought to work without.
Scanning was great, and because it was great and original, It shouldnt be heavily implemented in MP2 as to make it more original.
Id rather have Samus do different things this time, something just as innovative as the scanning in MP1.

And I wouldnt be totally surprised if MP2 is quite a bit different from MP1 and yes even to the extent that scanning wont be implied.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #23 on:** March 26, 2003, 02:22:45 PM »

"Yes, nevertheless I AM entitled to express my opinion. It's called Free Speech. Just as you are entitled to say, "Metroid was great!" I am entitled to say, "Metroid was kinda boring." The soliders in Iraq are fighting and dying to protect that right. "

Hey now, don't go start calling me unpatriotic- I never said you weren't entitled to your opinion, I just said it's not our or the developers' fault that YOU don't like the game. I kinda got the impression you were taking your "opinion" a step further when you a revived a dead debate from a dead thread.

"

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And audio/video stuff? Tell me, how would a Chozo sound, and what would a space pirate sound like, translated to English. Please.

I imagine the Pirates would sound like N'Grath and Chozo like Kosh in Babylon 5."

Odd- I don't think ever asked what the Chozo or Space Pirates would sound like. Must've been someone else.

"Just curious... how would you play the game without scanning? How would you know where to go next? Or how to defeat the enemy blocking your path?"

Like PIAC said, good ol' trial and error. How did you know where to go in Super Metroid, or how to defeat the enemies in the game if you couldn't scan? Like I said, it's real helpful if you do scan, but it's not necessary. It would actually make the game harder if you didn't always know an enemies weakness or where to go next.

"Scanning was great, and because it was great and original, It shouldnt be heavily implemented in MP2 as to make it more original.
Id rather have Samus do different things this time, something just as innovative as the scanning in MP1."

I still think scanning should be implemented just as much if not more so in MP2. Just because the sequel employs an innovative feature of its predecessor doesn't mean it's unoriginal- if that was true, both Majora's Mask and Wind Waker would be unoriginal since they both employ the lock on targeting system that debuted in Ocarina of Time. I agree that I'd like to see a feature in MP2 just as innovative as the scanning in MP, but that doesn't mean we have to get rid of scanning altogether to make room for it.

Mario · « **Reply #24 on:** March 26, 2003, 05:19:45 PM »

OMG, Only a week to go, and Metroid will be mine. The best game ever is arriving in Australia next week, its already the number one game in Europe, now its a Australias turn for a piece of the action. Im pissing myself, this game is gonna be so awesome, my hype for this game has returned, one week is TOO LONG! *shakes fist at Americans with thier Metroid Prime and thier Wind Waker copy's sitting next to thier GC*

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Author Topic: Metroid Prime Discussion (Read 12122 times)