Author Topic: Secret Placeholder Thread!  (Read 22357 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Svevan

  • Not Afraid of Being Afraid
  • Score: -9
    • View Profile
    • Continuity
RE:INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2007, 07:21:20 AM »
At least Ian is concerned with continuing the conversation, Deg, and half of his posts are not put-downs and smear campaigns on his least favorite forum poster.

Let's consider the changes Phantom Hourglass brings to the Zelda formula, or the constant debate about how hard Super Mario Galaxy should be. Even with these "hardcore" titles, Nintendo is a different company now, and these supposed "gamer" games are different too because of their shift in design philosophy. Even if Nintendo isn't making all the non-gamer games themselves, they're encouraging them to exist on their system via Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Brain Age, Nintendogs, Wario Ware, and their Blue Ocean marketing campaign. And saying Mario Kart counts as a hardcore franchise is disingenuous: Mario Kart is the safest bet in the history of video games, and from the looks of it, its going to offer little innovation (but who knows? More to be revealed, perhaps).

I can see what Denis is saying in terms of graphics. I don't care how good Metroid 3 looks, it doesn't look as good as BioShock or Halo 3. All three are comparable in terms of immersion (foreign setting, rules that must be intuited through the environment, etc), and graphics play a huge part of total immersion in a foreign world. It could be that all of SK's previous projects are just warm ups to an amazing game with a cinematic quality and a truly revolutionary game design. Nothing they've created so far convinces me of that, but it is possible. Having a system with a lot of power is beneficial, and I honestly do think Nintendo's GameCube 1.5 will come back to bite them eventually. Who cares if the controller is perfect for first person shooters, no one wants to make them on such weak hardware. Retro can make a first person adventure on the Wii look great, but that game has very little in common with the mainstream FPS on the 360, which sell more.

Graphics matter. For whatever reason, Nintendo and its fans thought so too back in the GameCube AND N64 age. Now they don't, because Nintendo says they don't. I call bullshit on that.    
Evan T. Burchfield, aka Svevan
NWR Message Board Artist

My Blog

Offline vudu

  • You'd probably all be better off if I really were dead.
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: -19
    • View Profile
RE:INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2007, 07:22:28 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: PartyBear
It's no wonder he can't finish Too Human.  The man can't even finish a sentence.
 I LOL'd.

Here's the first ever image from my Photobucket account.  



Jonny, was this the interview you wanted to turn into a podcast?
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Bill Aurion

  • NWR Forum Loli
  • Score: 34
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2007, 08:09:56 AM »
"And saying Mario Kart counts as a hardcore franchise is disingenuous"

So, uh, you're saying Mario Kart is a non-game?  Aha...ha...

"Graphics matter. For whatever reason, Nintendo and its fans thought so too back in the GameCube AND N64 age. Now they don't, because Nintendo says they don't. I call bullshit on that. "

Let's play this from the other angle...Sony fans said graphics didn't matter last generation, but now they do?

And do you think it's by merely COINCEDENCE that the most popular system in each generation has the weakest graphics?  People...don't...care...
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline Ceric

  • Once killed four Deviljho in one hunt
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2007, 09:01:29 AM »
I have to say what is your guys beef with Ian?  I mean he is just reiterating what was said in the interview in a more condensed form.  Thats almost exactly what I got from the interview.

SK wanted to make Epic games that graphically wowed regardless of console.  Nintendo wanted to focus on innovative controls and smaller games that were less threatening to the masses with low focus on being on the technological edge.  They both talked, figured out that for SK's current projects it just wasn't going to work out, and got a divorce.  At that point SK received a call from MS now that they were platform shopping to put it on their console which probably meant money, free dev kits, and between the PS3 and the 360 they had the machine that is suppose to be easier to work with.  It was a win all around for them because the games they are making are the games MS wants.

He goes on to say that if he was approached with a project that he felt would benefit more from what the Wii has to offer then the other platforms he develop it in a heartbeat.  There wasn't any indication of any ill will or anything.

From that interview I would not be surprised at all if they were to make a game for the Wii or do another upgraded port.
Need a Personal NonCitizen-Magical-Elf-Boy-Child-Game-Abused-King-Kratos-Play-Thing Crimm Unmaker-of-Worlds-Hunter-Of-Boxes
so, I don't have to edit as Much.

Offline Kairon

  • T_T
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 48
    • View Profile
RE:INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2007, 09:34:03 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Plugabugz
He respects Nintendo and their talents - that's clear. He wanted to make a big huge epic game in scale, but it seems like he's not sure how to keep a budget attached to that epic scale. Nintendo don't want to spend massively huge on games (several AAA's yes, one AAAAAAAA no), and then have them hanging around moving forward slowly and jumping several platforms, hence taking yet more time and moneh to re-tool. That what i think about why they split.


I believe that the same schism in philosophies that happened between Rare and Nintendo happened with SK and Nintendo. But I think that Plugabugz here has the REAL answer. Silicon Knights wanted to make a big budget game. They wanted to make a game to rival movies. They wanted to be the be all and end all of epic experiences. And they've wanted this for a long time.

Nintendo didn't want to give them the, probably large, budget that they would've needed to pursue that. Where do you go when Nintendo decides you're too expensive to keep supporting? Microsoft.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2007, 09:57:43 AM »
"And do you think it's by merely COINCEDENCE that the most popular system in each generation has the weakest graphics?"

Why does everyone forget about the 16-bit generation?  The SNES won.  It spanked the Genesis in graphics and sound.  And both consoles spanked the T-16 which had the weakest hardware of all of them.  I think the weakest hardware often (not always) being the most popular is a coincedence or really just little differences in hardware don't matter provided the hardware is "good enough".  However something like a major missing feature or something like the N64 using cartridges and the Saturn originally being designed as the perfect 2D machine right before 2D took over or huge price differences (and in the case of portables battery life) can make a big difference.  It's like there's an idea in everyone's head of what they ideally want out of a videogame system and whatever console comes the closest to the largest amount of people's idea is the most popular.

Offline Kairon

  • T_T
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 48
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2007, 10:01:08 AM »
Graphics counted when they looked as bad as they did back then. The world has since changed, we've reached a plateau, now art matters, etc. etc. etc.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Smash_Brother

  • Let me show you my pokĂ©-balls
  • Score: 3
    • View Profile
RE:INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2007, 01:35:37 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane Why does everyone forget about the 16-bit generation?  The SNES won.  It spanked the Genesis in graphics and sound.


Uhh, SegaCD? Better graphics, and CERTAINLY better sound.

And last I remember, the SNES and Genesis had no notable graphical diversity.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline that Baby guy

  • He's a real Ei-Ei-Poo!
  • Score: 379
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2007, 01:51:18 PM »
Yeah, it's not like Yoshi's Island, Super Mario RPG, or Donkey Kong Country didn't look amazing up to anything not on the 32x at the time.

Though Kairon's right.  I find it just plain ignorant when a dev says the Wii isn't powerful enough.  If it isn't, then that must mean that all their work before the 360 is just a cheap cop-out for cash.  Last generation reached a saturation point where machines were powerful enough that graphics didn't get in the way of telling a story.  Whether devs admit this or not, it's true.  We've reached the point where going a little beyond last gen's graphics, everything costs too much and takes too much time.  Games shouldn't cost $60 to be profitable anymore.  More people buy these things than ever, so prices shouldn't got up as demand is rising.  If we keep focusing on making the prettiest game possible, the industry is up for a huge belly-flop, and people won't stand for paying that much.

Heck, the PS3 shows us that one, too.

Offline Arbok

  • Toho Mikado
  • Score: 5
    • View Profile
    • Toho Kingdom
RE:INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2007, 01:52:46 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
And last I remember, the SNES and Genesis had no notable graphical diversity.


I have to step in here and disagree. Let's recall that the SNES and the Genesis were very close in sales most of their lives. The turning point was actually due to graphics, with the game Donkey Kong Country. That game was amazing of course, I'm a large defender of it from people who say otherwise, but it was turning heads because of the graphics... hell, it was that game that convinced me to buy an SNES after being Genesis exclusive up to that point. It took awhile for Sega to counter with Vectorman, and by then it was too late.

DKC is kind of an anomaly, though, as rarely have graphics taken a huge leap in a generation like they did then. In fact the only other example I can think of where graphics sold a game in large, large quantities and went toward winning a generation was Final Fantasy 7, which in that case was due to FMVs.

So it can happen, although I also think it's quite clear that it's not the main factor, or even a big one, in console dominance in the market. With the advent of FMVs, it's really hard to stand out with graphics alone too... and there is just way too much "wait, is that actually in game?" type of questions which in the end kind of dull the whole draw in today's market, as it's hard to tell what's real and what's not until getting your hands on it.
Toho Kingdom

@romero_tk

Offline Arbok

  • Toho Mikado
  • Score: 5
    • View Profile
    • Toho Kingdom
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2007, 01:53:37 PM »
Damn it thatguy, spent a long time formulating that reply and you just quickly state what I was saying :P
Toho Kingdom

@romero_tk

Offline that Baby guy

  • He's a real Ei-Ei-Poo!
  • Score: 379
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2007, 01:57:26 PM »
You can talk about StarFox if you want.  I didn't hit anything about that.

Offline denjet78

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2007, 04:26:43 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
I can see what Denis is saying in terms of graphics. I don't care how good Metroid 3 looks, it doesn't look as good as BioShock or Halo 3. All three are comparable in terms of immersion (foreign setting, rules that must be intuited through the environment, etc), and graphics play a huge part of total immersion in a foreign world. It could be that all of SK's previous projects are just warm ups to an amazing game with a cinematic quality and a truly revolutionary game design. Nothing they've created so far convinces me of that, but it is possible. Having a system with a lot of power is beneficial, and I honestly do think Nintendo's GameCube 1.5 will come back to bite them eventually. Who cares if the controller is perfect for first person shooters, no one wants to make them on such weak hardware. Retro can make a first person adventure on the Wii look great, but that game has very little in common with the mainstream FPS on the 360, which sell more.


In the end, power means nothing. It's what you do with it that matters. And do you even read what you type? You don't care what MP3 looks like because it doesn't look as good as some games on the 360? Considering I've seen Halo 2 and 3 in motion side by side and almost can't see much in the way of graphical difference between the two I'm going to call shenanigans. Face it, graphics this gen are a joke compared to last. The hardware requirements to get anything good running are insane. Would you rather these companies go broke trying to keep you happy visually? Sony and MS apparently would.

And Wii isn't going to come back to bite Nintendo in the end at all. 360 looked like crap when it was revealed. XBox 1.5 anyone? That's what EVERYONE was calling it. A GC 1.5 should be more than adequate in that regard. If people were willing to put up with crap graphics out of the 360, they'll put up with them on the Wii. And it's not like people haven't done that before. PS2 and it's GOD AWFUL jaggies won last generation by a land slide. As did the PSX before that with it's EYE BLEEDINGLY horrible graphics. To this day I still cannot fathom how anyone in their right mind would choose that ugliness over the N64. I can feel my eyes starting to bleed just from thinking about it.

Besides, as has been mentioned before. Epic games existed long before the Wii. If it's all about power then that means that every game before now, and even every game today as we haven't reached the pinnacle of graphics, should never have been made. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that SK shouldn't be making games at all. Especially not Too Human which apparently can only be realized by the best of the best of the best of which neither the Wii or the 360 or even the PS3 are. They should just wait until technology reaches the point of perfection, which is never. And with the short sighted and inflammatory comments they've made about the Wii I'd be more than happy if they waited even longer.

Offline Urkel

  • Reggie Fart-Aime
  • Score: 3
    • View Profile
RE:INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2007, 04:53:21 PM »
Quote

Well, I think that the mini-game is where the Wii excels, quite frankly, and I think easy access… mumble mumble mumble....


ETERNAL DARKNESS: PARTY MADNESS CONFIRMED FOR WII!!!!!

Seriously though, that sounds like a veiled insult more than anything else. That's the kind of statement Sony execs make about Nintendo in interviews.

"Oh ho! I think the Wii is a great system for toddlers. Did you get that? LOL! I'm not complimenting them at all!"

I also find it interesting that Dyack in no way explicitly states that Nintendo would not fund Too Human. He just rambles about Miyamoto saying something about smaller games. (Good job pressing him on the issue. I el oh elled.)
"ROFS? Rolling on the floor... starving?"- Phoenix Wright

Offline Alfonse

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2007, 12:15:45 PM »
This just in: Dennis Dyack sues Epic, citing the "inadequacies of the Unreal Engine 3 code it provides to its licensees".

Know what, Dyack? Maybe if you could cobble together some real developers, you could actually finish a game. I don't see BioWare saying that U3 is inadequate. And U3 has already shipped a game, which is a lot more than anyone can say about you.

God, he is such a poser.

Quote

The turning point was actually due to graphics


Actually, no. The turning point of the Genesis/SNES race was Sega going nuts with SegaCD and 32X. Not that DKC didn't hurt them too, but it was more like something bad that happened at just the wrong moment for Sega.

Quote

In the end, power means nothing.


In terms of making money, sure. In terms of making great videogame art?

It's the one thing I still have some respect for with regard to Dyack. I don't agree with his Graphics Uberalles philosophy, but he has a vision for his games and he wants to get it across, regardless of whether it makes money or is even popular.

Yes, FF6 is a great game. So is FF4. But wouldn't you like to have FF4 with FF6's graphics? Wouldn't you like to have FF4 with FF7's graphics (Giant of Bab-il in 3D FTW!)? Would FF4 with the better graphics not be a better game?

If your goal is to make money, Nintendo's strategy makes perfect sense: go after the biggest market and don't look back. But if your goal is to make the best videogames, in all respects, that you can, you have to admit that games like Wii Sports, Rayman, etc are not really the kind of intense videogame experiences that a seasoned gamer would want. And while yes, there are still the Mario Galaxies and Metroids Prime (that I will be buying on release day), these games could have been made better on consoles with more hardware.

They may be the best that Wii can do, but they're still limited by what Wii can do. And there are alternatives to Wii.

Offline Kairon

  • T_T
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 48
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2007, 12:31:20 PM »
Just because seasoned gamers want it, doesn't mean it's art.

I love me some graphics, but if all I wanted was pretty pictures, then I'd go elsewhere. Games need good graphics only insofar as they support the interactive experience and gameplay that is its entire reason d'etre. Sometimes that requires bloom lighting. Most of the time it doesn't.  
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Bill Aurion

  • NWR Forum Loli
  • Score: 34
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2007, 12:32:35 PM »
I don't agree with Dyack's outlook on gaming, but they might actually have a case against Epic if they truly didn't provide the support they promised...
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline that Baby guy

  • He's a real Ei-Ei-Poo!
  • Score: 379
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2007, 12:59:29 PM »
No, no, no, no, no.  You started your post out fine, but you definitely ended it terribly.

FF6 is one of the best RPGs I have ever played.  That isn't despite the artwork involved.  That's because of everything the game is.  The character sprites?  They invoke amazing depth of emotions, even through simplicity.  The enemies?  They look like beautiful portraits.  Amazing portraits.  The script?  Unique.  It is one of several things that define the brilliance of the story, characters, and game itself.

Now, in my opinion, FF6 is only second to Chrono Trigger, though it may be even with other games at telling a story.  See, here's the thing.  Developers used to see that they had limits with power.  They saw that there was only so much that could be done.  How did they respond?  Look at the entire final battle in FF6.  Isn't that amazing?  Isn't that remarkable?  The devs didn't have to worry about fancy polygons, flickering, and other things like that.  They just pushed the game to be the best it could be.  At this point in time, however, games look pretty for the sake of looking pretty.  They don't make a statement.  They don't fit the style and mood of the game.  I don't think a masterpiece like FF6 could be created at this point in time, given the current standards of the industry.  There are far to many distractions.  Costs are far too high.

Now, do I think a remake of an older masterpiece game can be better than the original?  Yes, I do.  But that's because the developers of the original game already made their game great.  The creators of the remake only have to worry about spending time making the game up to today's graphical standards.

I think the games of today can be great, too, but it will be much harder for one to be.  Like I said, there are too many distractions.  To many things out there for enough features to b amazing.

Nintendo understood that the industry was dying.  It died back in the '80's, too.  For you to criticize a plan to allow the industry to spread game media to far more people than ever before at a single time, just shows you don't get it.  Super Mario Galaxy will be a top game this generation, on any platform.  Hardcore and casual gamers alike will love it.  Mario Galaxy won't need a console with better hardware to be a better game than most others.  Neither will Metroid Prime 3.  Don't you realize that games you've played all your life, enjoyed all your life, weren't great because of the hardware?  The best games aren't amazing because of graphics.  Pac-man, then Ms. Pac-Man, then Pac-Man Vs. aren't amazing graphically.  They never, ever, ever were.  Super Mario Bros.?  Contra looked better than that then.  So did several arcade games at the time.  Stunt Race FX?  Terrible game, remarkable graphics for the time.

The thing you, as well as others don't understand is that the greatest games are the ones that don't need the highest horsepower to be great.  These games are great so long as there is a system powerful enough to support whatever engine is required for the game to be played.

In the end, power means nothing.  Graphics mean nothing.  Detail is everything. Style is everything.  Gameplay is everything.  People still haven't realized this.  If graphics were really that important, wouldn't we hate old games.  Is there a point where we decide a game is too ugly to play?  Do I look back and say, "Well, gee,  If they had fit more pixels into Mario's hat and 'stache, I'd have enjoyed Donkey Kong better?"
No.  Never.  Besides, aside from the cutscenes, FF7 was a remarkably ugly game.  Better hardware did not make a better game.  It never has, it never will.  The best games are the best games despite hardware, not because of them.

My post was to Alfonse, BTW.

Offline denjet78

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2007, 01:41:17 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: thatguy
*** Insert Perfect Response Here ***


I'm so glad I decided to read ahead before I tried replying to Alfonse.

You hit the nail so perfectly on the head I can't think of anything to add.

Great games have never been about the hardware. They're great because they're great. And most of them could still be great on almost any other platform.

Offline Arbok

  • Toho Mikado
  • Score: 5
    • View Profile
    • Toho Kingdom
RE:INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2007, 02:03:34 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: AlfonseActually, no. The turning point of the Genesis/SNES race was Sega going nuts with SegaCD and 32X. Not that DKC didn't hurt them too, but it was more like something bad that happened at just the wrong moment for Sega.


The add ons were a awful idea that confused the market... but let's not forget that Sega CD sold about 6 million units. Some  did believe the hype. When Donkey Kong Country came along, it really shattered everything, though, especially all of Sega's focus on these add ons being needed to bring graphics to the next step, as here Nintendo (or Rare, in this case) was able to do it with a system right out of the box.

Donkey Kong Country was also a phenomenal sales success, being the second best selling game on the SNES and one of the twenty best selling games of all time. I really think it deserves its due for its impact in the 16 bit generation.
Toho Kingdom

@romero_tk

Offline GoldenPhoenix

  • Now it's a party!
  • Score: 42
    • View Profile
RE:INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2007, 02:31:37 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
At least Ian is concerned with continuing the conversation, Deg, and half of his posts are not put-downs and smear campaigns on his least favorite forum poster.

Let's consider the changes Phantom Hourglass brings to the Zelda formula, or the constant debate about how hard Super Mario Galaxy should be. Even with these "hardcore" titles, Nintendo is a different company now, and these supposed "gamer" games are different too because of their shift in design philosophy. Even if Nintendo isn't making all the non-gamer games themselves, they're encouraging them to exist on their system via Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Brain Age, Nintendogs, Wario Ware, and their Blue Ocean marketing campaign. And saying Mario Kart counts as a hardcore franchise is disingenuous: Mario Kart is the safest bet in the history of video games, and from the looks of it, its going to offer little innovation (but who knows? More to be revealed, perhaps).

I can see what Denis is saying in terms of graphics. I don't care how good Metroid 3 looks, it doesn't look as good as BioShock or Halo 3. All three are comparable in terms of immersion (foreign setting, rules that must be intuited through the environment, etc), and graphics play a huge part of total immersion in a foreign world. It could be that all of SK's previous projects are just warm ups to an amazing game with a cinematic quality and a truly revolutionary game design. Nothing they've created so far convinces me of that, but it is possible. Having a system with a lot of power is beneficial, and I honestly do think Nintendo's GameCube 1.5 will come back to bite them eventually. Who cares if the controller is perfect for first person shooters, no one wants to make them on such weak hardware. Retro can make a first person adventure on the Wii look great, but that game has very little in common with the mainstream FPS on the 360, which sell more.

Graphics matter. For whatever reason, Nintendo and its fans thought so too back in the GameCube AND N64 age. Now they don't, because Nintendo says they don't. I call bullshit on that.


Art style matters far more then visuals, and for some reason I don't recall Nintendo fans ever being graphic whores. Heck some of their favorite games are not the most visually appealing. Honestly though, I don't think anyone would ever argue graphics don't matter at all, because they do, but it is what is done IN COMBINATION with the graphics that matter most, it always has been that way. Mario Galaxy looks gorgeous, and guess what, not all that is because of the graphical horsepower it appears to be outputting, but is mainly because of the art style in the game.

Not sure what you are talking about regarding PH or Nintendo's other traditional franchises. From what I've seen of Mario Galaxy it appears to be quite traditional yet quite revolutionary. Metroid Prime 3 looks like it has similar gameplay to previous Metroid games. Perhaps you can explain that further, because I am not getting your point how they are different. So what if there are discussions about the challenge of Mario Galaxy? Those discussions go on all the time!  
Switch Friend Code: SW-4185-3173-1144

Offline mantidor

  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2007, 03:35:24 PM »
I don't call games the 8th art, I call them the ultimate art. I hope that catches on :P

I agree a lot with Dyak's view in the parallels with the movie industry, but I think he is still seeing things very limited, and its certainly hard, because we've got movies for a whole century, and they are the paradigm of technology becoming art, so we often only look at cutscenes, story and graphics, with little thought into the input device.

And thats where Nintendo stepped in, unfortunately its also hard to see, because they implemented a remote and a touchscreen not because they think games are art (and I believe they have already stated that) but because they want to reach as much people as possible because they like money. And thats also the reason behind the console being underpowered, they are NOT selling the console at a loss, we know that, we play that argument every chance we got, it has nothing to do with the games themselves, money is the only excuse, if Nintendo really thought of games with the passion we do, the console would be more powerful, is that simple. Any developer passionate about games as an art rather than a product would prefer better graphics and more power, period, even if the "don't win as much money" from the console.

So I see Dyack's point, but I think his decision was wrong, because the graphic's flaw is compensated by a new awesome input device, I wonder how much he knew about the remote before the split, that would had also clouded his judgement.

"You borrow style elements from 20yr old scifi flicks and 10 yr old PC scifi flight shooters, and you add bump mapping and TAKE AWAY character, and you got Halo." -Pro

Offline Kairon

  • T_T
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 48
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2007, 04:12:15 PM »
In fact, I do believe that Miyamoto said he doesn't consider the stuff they're doing right now art. Art isn't commercial, for one.

But the art form, in a much more general sense, I think is certainly benefitting from the new tools being afforded it, and invigorated by the new directions being explored.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline mantidor

  • Score: 4
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2007, 05:03:57 PM »
Art is very commercial actually. Music, paintings or sculptures, all is sold and bought by many people.

But I really don't want to start one of those "art" threads, so I'll leave it at that.

"You borrow style elements from 20yr old scifi flicks and 10 yr old PC scifi flight shooters, and you add bump mapping and TAKE AWAY character, and you got Halo." -Pro

Offline Kairon

  • T_T
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 48
    • View Profile
RE: INTERVIEWS: The Denis Dyack Interview
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2007, 05:19:23 PM »
Oh god yes, what have I done, quick, change the subject!

Denis Dyack is AWESOME... But why did he have to go and spoil all the good will by sueing Epic?!?!??!?
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.