Author Topic: by this time on gamecube (Read 8198 times)

ThePerm · « **on:** May 31, 2007, 08:53:14 AM »

it is the summer after launch and by this time
Gamecube had luigi's mansion, smash bros, eternal darkness, and resident evil was about to come out...

Wii has Zelda, and......that was on Gamecube

the paradox, wii is selling like mad, and gamecube wasn't

Nick DiMola · « **Reply #1 on:** May 31, 2007, 08:57:43 AM »

Me and my fiancee were just talking about this yesterday. It's unbelievable how the Wii is such a runaway success when it really doesn't have a defining game as of yet (excluding Wii Sports). I wish Nintendo would step it up and deliver some quality titles because right now the Wii isn't seeming quite as awesome as it once was. There is huge potential for the Wii, but it certainly isn't being realized with all of these small minigame compilation releases that we have seen thus far.

ShyGuy · « **Reply #2 on:** May 31, 2007, 08:59:23 AM »

Don't forget Wii Sports and Super Paper Mario. They're both double A titles.

mantidor · « **Reply #3 on:** May 31, 2007, 09:02:42 AM »

I can't wait for Corruption, I hope they solve that damn supply problem by then.

But yeah, I blame the "non"-games (what a stupid term honestly), I'm sure "real" games can be sold to that audience as well, but I don't see Nintendo even trying, theres really no need to separate your consumers in "gamers" and "non-gamers".

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #4 on:** May 31, 2007, 09:03:00 AM »

Luigi's Mansion did nothing to sell consoles past the core audience.

Eternal Darkness did nothing as well (wasn't out till June), and wasn't even advertised well enough for the core audience to bother with it.

Rogue Leader was a good single player tech demo. Unfortunately people wanted multiplayer.

Resident Evil was out by the middle of April, and only sold to the informed hardcore. Most Resident Evil fans were lost in the confusion/transition from PS2 to GameCube (or PS2 to nowhere).

Melee was the only redeeming multiplayer title throughout the Cube's life. A floating piece of wreckwood from a sunken ship.

And Pikmin didn't make a dent ANYWHERE.

The difference is Wii has Wii Sports, which is something the super expanded mass market cares about. The mass market doesn't care about obscure ill-advertised core games.

Manhunt 2 will be the defining core game, media-wise and market-wise. Prime 3 can only hope for critical fame.

ShyGuy · « **Reply #5 on:** May 31, 2007, 09:07:35 AM »

So how come these core titles can hit a million sales on the 360? Advertising?

ThePerm · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2007, 09:08:13 AM »

as a gamer, and not a non-gamer, i think that i care a little bit more about the quality of titles that are coming out rather than how well they sell. That being said, i still need to finish alot of gamecube games like Paper Mario:tyd (which is why i havn't bought super paper mario)

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2007, 09:26:07 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
So how come these core titles can hit a million sales on the 360? Advertising?

Bingo.

Xbox's awareness efforts were effective and more than adequate (in all forms of media and retail presence). Nintendo's were neither effective nor adequate, which is why Nintendo couldn't expand their shrinking audience (while sporting a similarly capable console with similar games, unlike Wii) while Xbox was able to create their audience. Part of the reason is the Xbox generation was one gigantic splooge of advertising funds, lots of funds. Xbox also did a better job of satisfying retail demand in the first year.

A generation later, MS was bleeding cash and, by my eyes, did not spend as much on ads/awareness for the 360's first year. The TV ad campaign just didn't seem as overbearing as the generation before. And well all know about the other problems like lacking stock, lacking headline games, pending Wii/PS3 launches (and the gamers who held off on 360 for these launches), the buying habits of the inhereted Xbox audience (which mimics what happened to GameCube), etc, that lead to 360's current performance level.

A lot of little things add up. And a lot of good little things added up in Wii's favor.

GameCube? lots of promises that were quietly smothered underneath Xbox/PS2 market presence.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #8 on:** May 31, 2007, 09:51:32 AM »

I think one big difference is the competition. The PS3 is a laughing stock. In comparison at this point last gen the PS2 had Grand Theft Auto 3, Metal Gear Solid 2, Gran Turismo 3, Devil May Cry, ICO and Final Fantasy X. The PS2 was a dominant console since day one. That makes a huge difference.

Plus the sales aren't totally comparible since the Wii has changed the market. The Wii is selling incredibly well but a big part of that is the new audience Nintendo has attracted. How much of the Wii's current userbase was part of the videogame market in June 2002? We can't really tell. Maybe for that group the Wii is selling worse than the Cube did or it's still selling better anyway. Hell even strict gamers who are not interested in non-games are going to be interested in the Wii just because it looks like it will be the market leader which always the safe bet when buying a console. Maybe it lacks titles now BUT if it's the market leader then that will likely change. The strong sales are themselves an effective marketing tool as it creates a bandwagon mentality.

I think the current pattern of the Wii selling like hotcakes despite having a weak lineup suggests that it may be a fad. However the PS2 and DS initially were fads but became legimate successes once the great games suddenly poured in. The hype gets things rolling and then later quality games keep it going.

ThePerm · « **Reply #9 on:** May 31, 2007, 11:20:32 AM »

and thats my beef, it seems like a fad, and unless some solid titles come out, its "it" status might run out. It is still behind 360, and as far as i know ps3 isn't as far behind. Not to mention PS3 has some good looking(gameplay and graphics) titles coming out. Oh and Halo 3 will be out soon. Whats to keep this boat floating? Hopefully Metroid Prime 3, but will anyone adopt the Metroid series that hasn't already?

Kairon · « **Reply #10 on:** May 31, 2007, 11:22:53 AM »

Wii Sports has got to be the most powerful killer app since Super Mario Bros. on the NES.

And the thing to keep this baby floating? A lot of people are assuming that it'll be Wii Health or Wii Music. And perhaps Mario, who I believe still has appeals to casuals and lapsed gamers, and even be safe for non-gamers to dabble in.

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #11 on:** May 31, 2007, 11:28:38 AM »

I will admit that the Wii's phenominal success is unheard of, and almost unthinkable. Why is it succeeding so?

That said, I don't think we are truly being fair to the Wii or the Gamecube when comparing the two.

Here are a few differences that should be noted.

1)Competition. Like Ian said, the Wii's competition isn't very strong. Xbox 360 is its only real competition, and that appeals mostly to American Western gamers.

2)Online. Nintendo hasn't shown perfect online support yet. But it is online with fun diversions that gamers and nongamers can enjoy. The Voting Channel, Internet, News and Weather are all pretty cool.

3)A Completely New Way to Play. The Wii is not winning new buyers for being the same. The brilliant controller and promise of the controller are bringing new attention to a medium that everyone thought is only for the gamer to understand. Sure there are no games out right now...but the potential is huge.

4)Virtual Console. This is a trojan horse for Nintendo, because it is allowing nongamers or past gamers to play simpler older games they loved as children, and reminding gamers of why Nintendo is so loved. Now throw in Genesis and TG 16 support and you feel you are getting multiple systems with your purchase.

5)Huge promise on 3rd party support. Not everyone is on board and understands to true potential of the Wii, but everyone is wanting to design some sort of game for it and that means great support early on...and although we haven't seen it materialize just yet...we know it is coming.

6)Its just plain Fun. The experience of the Wii is refreshing new, and incredibly fun.

However, since you are comparing games that were out with the Gamecube and Wii. Let's look for a second.

Wii has: Wii Sports, Super Paper Mario, Legend of Zelda, Wario Ware, Several FPS, Several family/kids games, Madden Football,

Promised games to be out THIS year: Mario Galaxy, Brawl, Metriod Prime, Big Brain Academy, Battalion Wars 2, Mario Strikers Charged.

I think the Wii has a much stronger lineup, and a much stronger potential future for Nintendo...and it also had a media hype that pushed Nintendo as the second coming of gaming.

that Baby guy · « **Reply #12 on:** May 31, 2007, 11:41:19 AM »

Of course, you're forgetting about 100 additional VC games, of which several are very rare, you're forgetting the Godfather, Super Paper Mario, Wii Sports, Mortal Kombat Wii, Mario Party 8 (that one's borderline, though), Tiger Woods Golf, and Trauma Center too. Don't forget Excite Truck. If you include ports, remakes, and games on the borderline between great and average, do so for both sides of the argument.

You also left off Sonic Adventure 2: Battle for the Gamecube, which was also a big seller, and a big hit to some. Essentially, I'd say the line-ups are on par with each other when it comes to decent games, while the Wii has several more games in total, it suffers from a lower percentage of great games than the GC had. It boils down to the fact that Wii owners have more variety in titles to choose from, so that one title might not seem like a grade "A" title to almost anyone, but will appeal to a few consumers. If the Wii has the same amount of games that most people like as the GC does, at least in relation to the amount of time on shelves, it has two or three extra "niche" titles for every Cube game at this point, which, all-in-all is similar to the reasons why the PS2 was successful over the GC.

Your concern about Metroid Prime 3 is very valid, though. In my opinion, I think the title will receive great support on either of two factors: Media recognition and/or multiplayer. I think if the media as a whole treats Metroid Prime 3 almost as well as the original Halo was treated, it will do great and sell well, but for this to happen, Nintendo may need to begin advertising campaigns soon. If the game has any decent multiplayer, the internet will chat up about it, and in return, it will be brought into public eye. My criticism is that if the game doesn't reach the public eye, the public probably won't respond well enough to it.

Of course, if they pack in a Wii-remote with it, it will sell well, think Wii-Play.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #13 on:** May 31, 2007, 11:53:52 AM »

"Sure there are no games out right now"

ahahahahhahaha

this confirms Twilight Princess' defeat.

Luigi Dude · « **Reply #14 on:** May 31, 2007, 11:58:05 AM »

The Wii already has 7 titles that have already sold over a million. By this time in the Gamecubes life it only had 2 games that had hit the million mark worldwide, Smash Bros and Luigi's Mansion.

And if you want to compare sales to the XBox 360, the Wii is holding it's own very well when you realize that it's been on the market for only 6 months and the 360 had a year head start.

XBox 360 million sellers

Wii million sellers

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #15 on:** May 31, 2007, 12:41:58 PM »

The Wii has plenty of great games in the queue for release, and I think that explains some of why it is selling so well despite relatively few great games at the moment. Gamers know that great ones are on the horizon... Plus there are those simple non-games which offer a new way to play. People like that and don't care that the graphics could probably be done on the N64.

Could it also be that the new control schemes of the Wii required a lot more work to learn how to develop for versus the gamecube? I can see how that could make development of Wii games longer to complete. Plus another thing to consider is the severe loss in mindshare Nintendo suffered from the Gamecube. I know it lost quite a bit from the N64 and that hurt third party support for the Gamecube, but the Gamecube did even more poorly than the N64 did and so now that the Wii is such a success third parties are only just beginning to focus on developing for that.

I predict by this time next year the third party support will have increased dramatically, and we will be finding something else to complain about.

Mario · « **Reply #16 on:** May 31, 2007, 03:30:07 PM »

Wii Sports is that good.

You can spin this anyway. By this time all GameCube had was Smash Brothers and Pikmin, Wii already has Zelda, Wii Sports, Excite Truck, Super Paper Mario, and third party games that don't suck.

Actually, LOL! By this time over here GameCube JUST LAUNCHED TWO WEEKS AGO, and we didn't even have Pikmin yet =D or Eternal Darkness, or RE

couchmonkey · « **Reply #17 on:** June 01, 2007, 03:23:24 AM »

Well, I could go about comparing the lineups, but it's kind of pointless. I would point out that I think Wii has more games overall than GameCube did at this point...I believe there are about 60 games in NA at this point, not to mention Virtual Console...and history has shown that a truckload of crap games beats a handful of AAA titles.

But really, Wii is winning because of the controller and Wii Sports. The relative quality of the game lineup doesn't matter in the face of the new experience. For many Wii owners, playing Wii Sports is the equivalent of playing Super Mario Bros. or Super Mario 64 for the first time. Only where Super Mario 64 was too complicated to appeal to anyone but gamers, Wii Sports and Super Mario Bros. can appeal to all types of people.

ryancoke · « **Reply #18 on:** June 01, 2007, 03:38:19 AM »

godfather blackhand edition kicks ass

TrueNerd · « **Reply #19 on:** June 02, 2007, 09:33:11 AM »

I think the biggest reason the Wii is succeeding is that Nintendo has finally developed an identity again, and one that's different from Microsoft and Sony. The GameCube failed at every turn to differentiate itself from the competition and that is why it placed third. The Wii has games and a marketing campaign positioning it as a console that is fun for literally everyone who touches it, and it's working, mainly because they talk the talk and walk the walk.

It also helps that the Wii is a much more affordable console then its Microsoft and Sony counterparts. Sure, the GameCube was the most affordable last generation as well, but $299 for a console still isn't that much. There is some mental barrier at $399 and there's mental armadas at $599. They're a lot of money. It'll be interesting to see what happens when PS3 and 360 (and HDTV's) come down in price. Will the Wii have enough momentum at that point to render everything else moot? Will all of these supposed non-gamers keep buying games? Stay tuned.

Terranigma Freak · « **Reply #20 on:** June 02, 2007, 10:00:36 AM »

I seriously doubt the PS2 had all those big games within the first 6 months of launch. Most of those games were out a year or more after the system launched.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #21 on:** June 02, 2007, 10:08:51 AM »

I think by the time the 360 comes down in price to where the Wii is now, the Wii itself will also have dropped in price to probably somewhere below $199. It will be at least a few years before the PS3 drops to the current Wii price, and by then the Wii will probably be even lower, like maybe $99.

Nintendo can actualyl drop the price of the Wii right now, but why do that when it is selling so extremely well? If demand begins to slacken too much, Nintendo can drop the price and still turn a profit on it, and thus keep the demand high. Microsoft and Sony are in a tough position where they can't do this as easily since their consoels are selling for a loss even at their already very high prices.

Another extremely important factor to consider is the games themselves. The Wii games cost no more than $49.99 at the most, and many are less than this. 360 and PS3 games are almost all $59.99. That is a 10 dollar difference, and since people who often buy video games are usually either young people or parents buying something for their children, the price of the games will be very important. Little Billy may get a Wii for his birthday, and if he is lucky he may get a PS3 later at Christmas, but over time his Wii library is going to be considerably larger, particularly when it comes to multiplatform games, because his parents will opt for the cheaper version, and maybe he'd prefer the Wii controls over the Sixaxis controls anyway...

So I predict that not only will the Wii sell more in hardware; the lower price of the games will also mean the Wii will have a far better tie-in ratio to it than the PS3 or 360... and combine that with the fact the Wii is cheaper to develop for and you have a recipe for success similar to what the DS is experiencing. It just will take some time for the third parties to get stuff out.... they are only now jumping on the bandwagon, so lets wait a year and see what it is like then.

As for PS3 and 360 pricecuts, I am not worried about it. Nintendo can very easily counter them if they need to. There is no need right now, and I think by the time there is a need the Wii will be too far entrenched, just like the DS was.... if that handheld taught us anything it is that graphics aren't the most important factor in gaming.

WuTangTurtle · « **Reply #22 on:** June 02, 2007, 11:34:06 AM »

i think the answer is pretty simple........with the 360 and PS3, its all about better graphics with the same old games over and over again. Then you have the Wii, the total opposite. Nuff said.

Adrock · « **Reply #23 on:** June 02, 2007, 12:21:11 PM »

I'd say Wii Sports is the reason Wii is selling so well. Wii has a better software lineup than Nintendo's past few consoles have had. However, I wouldn't say it's impressive enough or so much more impressive than Gamecube's lineup to explain the brisk console sales. Wii Sports is basically the deal breaker. Without Wii Sports, I doubt Wii would still be so hard to find. People, new and old gamers alike, buy it for Wii Sports and stick around for everything else. I've seen people buy Cooking Mama, for example, because they already had a Wii, but I don't think they'd buy Wii for Cooking Mama. Gamecube didn't have that one super killer title. Nintendo had a hard time getting it into homes. That's the hard part. Once a console is in homes though...

PS2 had a pretty sh*tty lineup its first 6 months, but people bought it. Playstation is a powerful brand name. As outrageous as the PS3 pricetag is, some people are still buying it. So really, I don't think it's just because the fairly slim lineup. If PS3 had a better lineup, it'd probably sell better than it currently is, but $599 is still a tough pill to swallow.

I just can't count PS3 out. Publishers are still supporting it despite all the problems. Sure, games like DMC4 are getting ported. However, that's still better than the nothing N64 and GCN got. I think Sony may have lost its market dominance though I don't think Nintendo has necessarily inherited it. I expect a much closer three way race though it's much too early to pick a winner.

that Baby guy · « **Reply #24 on:** June 03, 2007, 07:53:24 AM »

I really feel like the PS3 is getting almost the exact same treatment the Saturn got, minus the Japanese support. That's just something I feel like, though.

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Author Topic: by this time on gamecube (Read 8198 times)