Topic: SUPER SMASH BROS BRAWL - The New Megathread

[Grant10k]

Having a character in the background doesn't necessarily mean you can't play as that character.
They could simply delete the character from the background if you happen to be that character. Or just populate the background at random with characters you didn't select (a la Wii Sports). They probably wander around anyway, treating the battle like an event that happens to be going on in their town.

[Dirk Temporo]

Resetti should be an Assist Trophy.

[Hostile Creation]

I can't believe that anyone prefers SSB64 to Melee, I think the latter is uncomparably better.  The first one set a foundation, the second one improved significantly upon it.  I love the fast pace of Melee.  I always felt like I was moving through molasses in SSB64, SSBM is such a relief in comparison.  I guess a compromise wouldn't be bad, but I'd prefer keeping the speed of Melee.  It's much more fun.

[Bill Aurion]

I'd rather Tom Nook be an Assist Trophy (to allow Resetti to be a character =3)...He could pull out random pieces of furniture (which appear from leaves, just like in the game) and throw them all over the place!

[Mashiro]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: Mashiro

Pikachu back throw.

This is SSB, not rocket science.

1. Hold Z and hit left/right to roll out of the way of Pikachu when he tries to grab you, then retaliate.

2. Jump. He can't grab you if you're in the air.

3. Hit him with something BEFORE he grabs you!

My friends and I played SSB64 for at least 500 hours (according to our cartridge log). Guess what? If throws were the solve all, end all of the game, we would have figured it out and used them to no end.

However, there's a very simple fact you're overlooking here: throws require you to be close enough to your opponent to grab, and seasoned veteran SSB players are dangerous to get close to. If you and your friends were stymied by the inclusion of throws in the game and couldn't find a counter tactic, then I've no other explanation other than that you weren't very good at the game or you didn't give it a fair shake and simply gave up on it.

Actually, it sounds to me like you faced a Pikachu player who WTFPWNED the hell out of you and your only recourse was to dismiss the entire game.

As for the level, I'm probably being very wishful here, but you'll note that Mr. Sonny Resetti appears nowhere in the background...

And as to whether or not there will be a stage without a corresponding character, though I'd like to say no, this is the last SSB game Sakurai said he'd do so I think it's anyone's guess.

Actually no I just "WTFPWNED" WITH Pikcahu against anyone I came across. It wasn't much of a challenge and I don't think SSB64 was balanced enough to warrant the level of praise you are giving it.

Melee on the other hand was a much more skillful based game and the battles are far more enjoyable.

[Sarail]

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Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I can't believe that anyone prefers SSB64 to Melee, I think the latter is uncomparably better.  The first one set a foundation, the second one improved significantly upon it.  I love the fast pace of Melee.  I always felt like I was moving through molasses in SSB64, SSBM is such a relief in comparison.  I guess a compromise wouldn't be bad, but I'd prefer keeping the speed of Melee.  It's much more fun.

Whoa, man.  I didn't say I prefer SSB over SSBM.  I said I prefer how it feels over SSBM.  Totally different concept.  I love Melee more for the simple fact that it oozes with TONS of crap that brings a smile to my face.  But SSB definitely plays and feels better.  Melee is way too fast.

[Mashiro]

I'm so shocked at how many people feel melee was too fast! Oh well to each their own.

Edit: This game better have online >=) NWR SSBB Tournament!

[Sarail]

Plus, one of my favorite characters to use, Ness, is way too dumbed down in Melee.  Saddened me to see that happen.  He's definitely more balanced in the first Smash.

But man, I love my Ice Climbers.  

[Mashiro]

=) I was Pikachu all the time in SSB64 then I made the switch to Link in Melee as he wasn't as gimped as in 64.

I hope this version of Link is just as good in Brawl.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro Actually no I just "WTFPWNED" WITH Pikcahu against anyone I came across. It wasn't much of a challenge

Then you didn't fight any decent players and ergo have not had adequate experience with the game to be making comparisons.

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and I don't think SSB64 was balanced enough to warrant the level of praise you are giving it.

Kirby and Ness were top tier (which is why they were nerfed like crazy in SSBM), but the slower speed ensured that more people in my circle enjoyed playing it, including those who couldn't keep up with Melee's speed and thus opted to not play it.

I'm not worried, though, as SSBB is quite clearly slower than Melee.

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Melee on the other hand was a much more skillful based game and the battles are far more enjoyable.

Everything in the above statement is subjective, except that Melee is balanced: it isn't. The tiers in Melee totally and completely favor the fastest characters, with Fox and Falco being top tier. Neither game was balanced, but SSB64's more paced speed made it a far better choice when it came to enticing newer players, and I've no doubt that Nintendo understands this concept when it comes to Brawl (one of the reasons the game is slower).

Also, Sakurai has already said that Brawl will take steps to alleviate the balance issues, even suggesting that it "will be created with balance in mind".

Melee was a rush-job and it clearly shows. Had it experienced adequate playtesting, they would have realized that the fastest characters are unstoppable in the hands of a skilled player.

Though I love Bowser, I'm not exactly holding my breath when they suggest that he won't suck as badly in Brawl, but I at least hope that the top tier isn't completely dominated by the fastest characters in the game again.

[Mashiro]

I don't want to get into a player skill debate because there is no way to tell who is better than who.

You can talk all the smack you want and so can I but it'll be just endless repetitive garbage. You've never seen me play and I've never seen you play.

We can settle this online in december =P

Edit: Just because characters are top tier it doesn't mean they are the only way to win.

And yes I agree a slower speed entices more people. Either way I don't mind about the speed I just highly preferred Melee over 64 but I enjoyed each at the times they were played.

[Sarail]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
=) I was Pikachu all the time in SSB64 then I made the switch to Link in Melee as he wasn't as gimped as in 64.

I hope this version of Link is just as good in Brawl.

See, I thought Link was gimped in Melee and not the original.  His back and forward airs landed for better damage and impact, and his bombs were a heck of a lot more explosive.  I honestly thought he was more of a wuss in Melee.  o_O

[Ceric]

I'll be happy as long as they give me a mode to crank up the speed with.  What can I say.  I like the game fast.

Now can we stop polluting this thread.  We have 3 other super huge threads about this issue.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro<
Edit: Just because characters are top tier it doesn't mean they are the only way to win.

Of course not, but the very existence of tiers negates the idea that the game is balanced. Melee was rushed and there are a lot of places where it shows. Balance was one of them.

And quite frankly, no. I expect that, come Dec, people who get their asses stomped online are going to complain that SSBB is "too much like the first one and not like the vastly-superior Melee" and that they would have won "if we were playing Melee".

Sorry to be prophetic here, but this is exactly the kind of thing I expect will be said, a lot.

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Originally posted by: Rachtman
See, I thought Link was gimped in Melee and not the original.  His back and forward airs landed for better damage and impact, and his bombs were a heck of a lot more explosive.  I honestly thought he was more of a wuss in Melee.  o_O

I agree.

Link's recovery may have sucked in 64 (which is why we wound up calling him "No-recovery Link), but he was far more of a killing powerhouse. In Melee, his best killing move is either the downward stab or the up+B, especially in a crowded stage.

A lot of the moves in Melee also felt too similar to other moves, like a lot of the neutral air As, for example. I hope Brawl fixes that and adds more variety. I'd rather have 20 characters who are balanced and unique than 50 which clearly overlap in many moves.

[Mashiro]

I found Link far more accessible in Melee and it just fit how I liked to play. Everyone has their own play style =) that's why I love fighting games it's great to see how others use X character and what they can do with him/her.  

Edit: Yeah but even games likes Soul Calibur have top tier characters in fact almost all fighting games do. It's just the nature of the games. Though I never find myself as one of the top tier I still hold my own in most circles. It comes down to the persons play style in the end and what they are comfortable with.

Also about people complaining online let em, who cares, I just want to be online to get freaking better at the game. I love competition and love improving upon my weak points. That's what makes the game fun!

[Sarail]

Ah, yes.  That's very true.  Haha, I did enjoy playing as Young Link, though.  >_<

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro I love competition and love improving upon my weak points. That's what makes the game fun!

That's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to online: the idea that I could have a skilled opponent at any time makes me salivate.

Also, if they can only manage 1v1 online play, I'll be FINE with it because that will force them to balance 1v1 fights, which means people can't make the excuse of "Bowser sucks because the game is balanced for 4 players" (which isn't true, by the way).

[Mashiro]

Smash Brother do you also enjoy 1v1 fights on stages like final destination with no items?

Those are my all time favorite fights =D

[Smash_Brother]

I did enjoy duels, but only when against a skilled opponent. I enjoy fighting Shiek players as Bowser and I intentionally told a friend to learn Marth so I could practice against a Marth player.

On rare occasion, a friend from Montreal comes down to visit who's the only person I know who's a real match for me and I love dueling with him and can spend many hours doing so.

[Mashiro]

Yeah those matches are the best.

I really hope this game is online I would like to fight you =)

[Hostile Creation]

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Smash Brother do you also enjoy 1v1 fights on stages like final destination with no items?

Those are my all time favorite fights =D

Absolutely.  Some of my best video game memories are from playing SSBM with my friend murk (me as Marth, him as Fox), one on one on final destination, items turned off.  Five or ten lives.  Sometimes just one.  Those were incredible, some of the most intense and satisfying challenges I've faced in a video game.

[Luigi Dude]

Well this confirms that an an Animal Crossing character in the game alright.  Only things that are part of a playable character from a franchise have icons which this stage does.  Because look at Dr. Wright's page , he just has the Smash Bros logo as a symbol because nobody from his series will be playable.  But if you look at Samurai Goro's page, he has the falcon icon that represents F-Zero because Caption Falcon is a playable character.

On the issue of playable I'm going to guess that Tom Nook will be the character.  Even though he's a part of the stage, everyone has to remember that the Tom Nook in the background looks the exact same as he does in the Animal Crossing games.  If he was playable he'd be given a design change and a huge graphical upgrade over the one we see in the background.

Which means it doesn't matter if he's already part of the stage since a playable Tom Nook would look a lot different anyway.

[Mashiro]

Interesting points Luigi Dude.

And damn all this 1v1 melee talk, I wanna play again but no one is around ::tears::.

[Bill Aurion]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
Smash Brother do you also enjoy 1v1 fights on stages like final destination with no items?

Those are my all time favorite fights =D

[Adrock]

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Smash_Brother wrote:
Link's recovery may have sucked in 64 (which is why we wound up calling him "No-recovery Link), but he was far more of a killing powerhouse. In Melee, his best killing move is either the downward stab or the up+B, especially in a crowded stage.

As a Link player, I didn't think he was gimped in Melee at all. They just changed the way he plays. Link was still a great character to use, granted you knew how to use him. The only changes I object to were his boomerang was pathetically weak (almost to the point of worthlessness), the hookshot throw does practically nothing while also being slow (though the whole game deemphasized throws) and the spin attack was ungodly cheap. Link's arrows were also pretty lame. Considering how slow and weak they were, I wonder how Pit's are going to work. They gave him swords, but Pit's primary weapon was his bow.

Anyway, I thought jumping in SSB64 was too floaty, it was like they were in space. I was fine with the speed in Melee, but I wouldn't mind if they slowed it down by 10%-15%, especially if it balances out the game.