Topic: What if Nintendo made a portable Wii/Gamecube?

[Chozo Ghost]

This is kinda a spin-off thread from my other one. That thread made me think of what Nintendo's next handheld might be....

Would a portable wii/gamecube be successful? The tiny gamecube discs are fairly comparable to the UMD and are probably equally suitable for a portable, but they'd have to resolve the load time and battery issues. Could this sell? I think it might actually succeed where the PSP failed, because unlike the PSP it would be launched with an already large selection of great games since it would just run the gamecube discs. It could also include a touch screen for additional capabilities and maybe it would be backwards compatible with the DS/GBA as well? Obviously it would have to be rather large, but I see no reason it would have to be much larger than the PSP is.

Maybe it wouldn't replace the DS, but be the third pillar Iwata alluded to and would go against the PSP but the DS would continue on as a seperate thing with its own market?

Something like this was tried before by Sega with the Nomad, which was a portable Genesis that could also be hooked up to a tv. The Nomad didn't do that well, but I think that was because Sega didn't push it enough and there wasn't many ads for it, and also the new releases of Genesis games were drying up as Sega shifted focus to the Saturn. But I think the concept of a handheld that can play games made for a console is a great idea as long as new games are being produced for that. I think Sony's PSP would have done much better if it played the PS2 discs, but maybe that would make them consume far more battery power? I dunno, but there are portable dvd players, so why couldn't there be a portable PS2, Gamecube, or even Xbox if the components can be shrunk down enough?

I'm sure many people have thought of this idea before, but what if it also had some additional features borrowed from the Wii? Could it be possible to make the stylus function similar to a wiimote? Since it would be tiny it couldn't have all the features, but I think a motion sensitive stylus with one or two buttons would be awesome.

*shrug* just a weird idea resulting from too much free time.

[UERD]

This brings a really big question to mind, actually.

What is Nintendo going to do with their 'second pillar' (GBA line)? Is the next Game Boy going to be a conventional portable with extra power, like the PSP, or is Nintendo going to focus on the DS from now on?

[Chozo Ghost]

I think the DS only exists as a distinct product and isn't referred to as "Gameboy Revolution" (or similar) because they were afraid the idea of the touchscreen and the dual screens would be a disaster like the Virtualboy so they gave it a new name in case it did fail and that way the Gameboy name wouldn't be tarnished and they could come out with something more conventional.

But, as we all know the DS did not fail and so I think whatever its successor is will probably carry the Gameboy name... I think this would be great because the name DS doesn't really excite your imagination or grab your attention... But maybe they'd name it something completely different. The name "Gameboy" might not be the best considering they want to increase their marketshare with adults.

I'd hate for the Gameboy name to be retired, but I fear that might happen.

[Ian Sane]

The DS is the next Gameboy.  Chozo Ghost summed it up perfectly why Nintendo initially acted like it wasn't.

I think the biggest obstacle for a portable Cube is the controls.  Compared to a portable the Cube controller has a whole lot of buttons including weird analog shoulder buttons.  Plus it has two analog sticks.  Analog sticks suffer from wear and tear.  It sucks on the Cube but buying a new controller isn't that expensive.  Buying a brand new system because your analog sticks turned to crap would suck.  And since virtually every major Cube game uses the analog sticks they can't be removed.

I think it couldn't be like a DS where you can just slide it into your pocket and not worry about.  It would have to be something in between a portable and a console like how a laptop doesn't fit in your pocket but is portable and is halfway between a desktop computer and a palm pilot.

[nitsu niflheim]

If they used GCN's mini-DVD's then the loading time wouldn't be all that bad because GCN had pretty good loading times.  Also it wouldn't be a new format like the UMD was, and Nintendo could very well make the next portable compatible with GCN/wherein then also with Wii.  But that might hurt sales because why would you need to buy the portable if the game could play on Wii.  But it would give that option to play at home or away, and if the portable used normal SD cards as memory cards then you could easily transfer saves between the Wii's flash drive and the SD card.

[hudsonhawk]

My wish guess:  Something like the Gameboy Micro, that takes no media, but allows you to sync with the Wii and play Virtual Console games.  Something with wifi so that you could access the store directly from the device.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I still want this, only in widescreen  : drool :

   

[Ceric]

3D screen.  As I said before.  A true 3D screen.  The technology is their for smaller electronics and is suppose to work fairly well.  I think that will be the next Gameboys claim to fame.  It could even play Cube games in 3D because it wouldn't take to much how those things work.

[Requiem]

The DS should just ramp up its technology.

Instead of one touchscreen, how about two?

Instead of a single-point touchscreen, how about a multiple-point touchscreen?

Instead of 64 graphics, how about PS2 graphics?

And so on and so forth.....

I mean, what else can they do? Innovate again?

It's bad business to continually innovate, because sometimes what your innovating isn't broken to begin with. And that's called renovating.

I honestly can picture the DS2 and it's brilliant. Imagine two people sitting at a table, hunched over a big folding screen. Each of them holds one half of the screen in there palm (the size of a note card). They are playing a simplified version of  foosball; they control only two rows of men this time. With each thumb they can drag the "handles" from side to side, and kick the ball by sliding downward on it (emulating spinning).

And that's only scratching the surface.

[nitsu niflheim]

how about instead of PS2 graphics, how about GCN graphics!

[Adrock]

Quote
Requiem wrote:
It's bad business to continually innovate, because sometimes what your innovating isn't broken to begin with. And that's called renovating.

That's a really great point.

I think dual-multi-point touchscreens are inevitable. Built-in tilt and rumble would be nice too.

[ThePerm]

Nintendo isn't going to use disks with handhelds...why? Well it appears card/cartridge tech has/is surpassing optical tech in size. a 4 gb sd card is 80 bucks now...also a 2 gb card can be as small as 2x2 centimeters.  Might as well add built in tilt tech

[couchmonkey]

Ian hits on the problem with a portable GameCube: it's too complicated.  Not only does that make for a so-so portable experience, but it's totally out of alignment with Nintendo's current business plan.  DS and Wii are built on these principles:

- Make gaming simpler in order to appeal to a wider audience
- Give up graphical horsepower to make hardware cheaper and keep game development budgets in check
- Consume less power
- Create an interface that has "sticky" features that keep new customers turning the power button on.  (Everybody Votes and Virtual Console, for instance.)

A portable GameCube tends to be pretty incompatible with these goals.  The next Nintendo handheld will probably be a bit more powerful than DS, but not more powerful than GameCube, and it will focus on ways to improve the handheld interface for the general public.

I like Hudsonhawk's guess of a media-free handheld that syncs with the Wii, but it should probably also sync with  home PCs if Nintendo wants it to have a huge sales base.  Perhaps retailer-based syncing would work too.  Some kind of "Virtual Console" will definitely play a role in the next handheld from Nintendo, maybe not to this extent, though.  

[Ceric]

I don't ever see handhelds becoming no media device unless wireless broadband reaches a point of saturation the same as electric power has here in the States.  Meaning only the remotest areas don't have it.  You would hurt the sales of games with the people who buy a huge amount because frankly your not going to to put enough memory in their for every game ever made for the system to fit.  Another thing is that you run the risk of being taken out of the distribution channels.  Also all those jobs that were created by distributing and selling games would vanish.  That would mean at the very least if we say that each Gamestop Empire store has at least 5 staff members 20,000 people who more then likely buy your games would be out of a job if they all totally moved that direction.  Pirate copies be much easier to get onto the system.  No, while no media would be great for us from the company perspective I don't think its a good deal at all.

[Chozo Ghost]

Plus, I think most people (myself included) prefer to have a physical tangible product when they purchase something. This is why CDs are still selling strongly even though there is now Itunes and a bunch of other services like that. I mean, those services are generating profit and doing okay, but a lot of people refuse to use them because they want the actual CD. You usually get a nifty insert and the cover art and so on with the CD that you don't get with an MP3. Plus, what if you lose the MP3 somehow from a computer crash or something? Not to mention the quality is better than MP3.

Anyway, I think the same is largely true of video games. Sure, the Wii's virtual console is a big hit, but is every Wii owner using it? 5 bucks for a game that isn't on tangible media is something many people wouldn't consider spending, but if for that same $5 (or maybe a little more) the game came on a card or disc, then they'd consider it. I know it isn't true with everyone, but some humans have a psychological desire to buy things they can actually hold in their hands versus something abstract.

I don't think it is a bad idea, though. I just think it should co-exist with some sort of media, kinda like the Wii does now with DVD games plus the virtual console... I think doing that with a handheld makes perfect sense, but having no media whatsoever would probably not be such a great idea. *shrug*

Just my 2 cents.

[ShyGuy]

Nintendo seems to follow a pattern of first gen is innovation then second gen is beefing it up.

NES - SUPER Nintendo (more powerful NES with more buttons)
N64 - Gamecube (more powerful N64 with discs)
Gameboy -Gameboy advance (more powerful gameboy with more colors)

DS- (more powerful DS with more interweb?)

[Ceric]

Quote
Originally posted by: Chozo Ghost

...
I don't think it is a bad idea, though. I just think it should co-exist with some sort of media, kinda like the Wii does now with DVD games plus the virtual console... I think doing that with a handheld makes perfect sense, but having no media whatsoever would probably not be such a great idea. *shrug*

Just my 2 cents.

Agree.  Like personally I love reading books off my PDA.  I thought I wouldn't because of my experience with my computer but the first one I did, in a real straightish text format not PDF, I really like it.  It didn't matter the lighting conditions and I never lost my page.  Even reading through a book was faster because I didn't have to physically flip pages.  So I their was a book I wanted and it had a Hard Cover version and an eBook version.  The eBook version was just as much as the Hardcover.  I immediately said no thank you and waited about 2 years for the paperback, my library didn't get the book.

Thats the problem.  In the book scenario I knew that with a minor care the Hardcover could last 100 year and definitely would last until my future kids were old enough to read it.  The eBook on the other hand would probably only last till my machine crashed or something similar.  In all actuallity I think it should cost a little less then the Paperback version since their is no printing cost.  I be mostly the same for games.

I've been getting a lot of my games through Gamefly.  I pay used prices plus a member discount and free shipping for new games even.  It amounts to a good saving, I know the disc works, and all the material included with the game comes to me in prestine condition.  If I would get that game digitally I would want it to be cheaper then even that price because it be the same to me but I wouldn't be getting extra stuff.  In the end forcing me to go totally digital could very well prevent me from getting your product.

[Requiem]

Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Nintendo seems to follow a pattern of first gen is innovation then second gen is beefing it up.

NES - SUPER Nintendo (more powerful NES with more buttons)
N64 - Gamecube (more powerful N64 with discs)
Gameboy -Gameboy advance (more powerful gameboy with more colors)

DS- (more powerful DS with more interweb?)

And honestly, that makes the most sense.

Why fix something if it isn't broken?

[that Baby guy]

Now then, ask yourself this.  Has there been a company other than Nintendo to maintain success on and after a third console generation?

The only companies I can think of that even made it to three generations of consoles are Atari, Sega, and now Sony.
Atari's 7800 was a bomb, living only by backwards compatibility with 2600 titles, and the Jaguar was even more of a joke.  Both consoles added to the destruction of the past's Atari.
The Saturn was a commercial flop everywhere, with only minimal success in Japan.  Succeeded by the Dreamcast, we all know how poorly the DC faired with rumors about the PS2 ever present.
Now we've reached the PS3.  Will Sony be able to overcome this curse?  As of now, probably not.  The gaming unit is facing similar problems to what Atari faced years ago.  People don't want the more expensive unit, and instead buy the old, cheaper game machines available, in this case, the PS2, Wii, and 360.

If SCEA makes it out of this generation, I doubt the department will survive the next generation without a new innovation.  Likewise, the next Microsoft machine would do well to create some sort of innovation, or they may receive the same treatment Sony has this time.  The question is whether or not the innovation just needs to match Nintendo's motion control, or if it needs to be all new.  We'll have to wait and see to learn our answers, though.

[vudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: Chozo Ghost
Plus, I think most people (myself included) prefer to have a physical tangible product when they purchase something. This is why CDs are still selling strongly even though there is now Itunes and a bunch of other services like that.

Do you check out the Everybody Votes Channel?  A question they had a couple weeks ago was something to the effect of how do you prefer to buy music--CDs or download.  Surprisingly, download beat CDs.  My guess is that most people missed the keyword buy but it's possible we're just old fogies who are out of touch with the iGeneration.

[Ceric]

You know I haven't turned my Wii on ine over 2 weeks (its been hectic).  I'm really behind on Everyone Votes.

[jakeOSX]

if we take the DS out there i'd see the next version with the following two additions:

the first, agreeing with something said above, would be the ability to play VC games. This most likely would involve including an SD card on the DS itself, allowing easy transfer from the Wii.

the second is the near total removal of buttons. Make the entire bottom part one touch screen (which would involve a few advancements in touch screen tech) so that each game could lay out buttons as they chose. the advantage of this is you could get near analogue stick action without moving parts. (ian is right, a GC controller wouldn't survive. surpised that dinky thing on the PSP survives)

i'm sure i could think of more, but those are the main things that came to mind.  

[EasyCure]

i've also thought of making the bottom half of the ds one big touch screen but have changed my mind.

the way i envisioned it is having all the buttons mapped on screen where you can hold the system like you would normally, except all the buttons would be "virtual." heres a few reasons why it wouldnt work in my opinion, and in no particular order:


1. to have the entire screen be a touch screen but limit the play area because the sides of the screen would be blocked by your fingers because of where the "buttons" would be would just make it pointless. you'd still have a similar screen size.

2. it just wouldnt feel the same. touch controlls are good for some games but not most. in a game like animal crossing when you only have to tap every now and again it works but imagine playing Mario Kart on an all touch screen. where you'd have to constantly hold the gas button while tapping others for an item. if controlls were mapped the way i described you would need multi-point touch (which i can imagine will be in the next ds will have). but what happens if you have a big thumb? while holding the virtual A button for gas, the pressure you put on it will cause you to throw an item when you dont want to.

3. if the whole bottom half was a big touch screen you'd pretty much have to abandon any game considered "hardcore" and that wouldnt sit well wit alot of people. like i mentioned before, mario kart just wouldnt work on it unless they changed it to work like star fox. does anyone here really want an all touch controlled mario kart? the game pushes you fwd while all you control is steering and shooting? or do you want to be able to accelerate on your own

4. it would be uncomfortable to hold without blocking part of the bottom screen, and sometimes you just need to feel the click or press of a button to know it responded. this kinda goes with the above example in mario kart. when you're holding down the a button you can still feel one of the others and not press down on it, with one flat touch screen it would be a little difficult to do just that.

hopefully the next DS will have a browser built in (with online picto-chat. does anyone here even use that anymore) and wii VC connectivity so you can take a classic game on the go. other than that it just needs a graphical and sound boost and we'd all be happy.

[Ceric]

Also better ergonomics.

[Chozo Ghost]

Hey guys, how about this: you know to the left and right sides of the DS' lower touch screen which has the D-pad and the buttons, right? Well, what if the DS2 had movable buttons on these spots that you could place anywhere you wanted on those areas that you found was most comfortable to you? I'm thinking it would be like a Mr. Potato Head kinda thing that anyone could customize and left handed people could simple move the D-Pad to the opposite side if they prefered...

This is something that shouldn't be too complicated to do. You could add a temporary sort of analog control thing wherever you wanted, and maybe when it wasn't in use it could slide into the side of the DS or something like the Stylus does on the top so you wouldn't lose it when not in use... plus losing it wouldn't be a big deal, because you could always get a replacement for cheap since the analog stick would basically be a piece of plastic or something that interacts with the touchscreen and sticks to it somehow... I don't know how it would work, but I'm sure it could somehow...

And third parties would offer their own buttons, and certain games might even include specially shaped and colored ones in the box?

Or what if the Analog stick was attached to a cable that you could hold in your other hand like the Wii's nunchuck? I can see lots of ways an analog stick could work properly on a handheld.... it just needs to be replaceable in case it wears out or breaks.