Author Topic: The Wii is a "mistake"... (Read 14345 times)

NWR_pap64 · « **on:** April 10, 2007, 09:03:57 AM »

This is the reason why I don't even bother with some websites.

Games Radar has posted an editorial about the top 7 mistakes Nintendo has ever done. Here's the editorial.

Guess what made number 7...

That's right, in their eyes the Wii is a mistake.

The editorial is full of cynical assumptions. The system is barely 5 months old and they are already hailing as a potential mistake. Hell, not even Ian, Mantidor and Pittboi could come up with such negative views on the system.

The Wii is already outselling the PS3 and is bound to take over the 360 in a year. The support is very strong at the moment and even when the system is extremely hard to find it sells well over 200,000 systems a month. I doubt its just a fad.

But I'm not that worried, since I remember that the DS was considered a fad and a childish gimmick. Millions of DSs later and I am still waiting for the fad to end.

And don't even get me started on the N64 rant. I agree that the system was full of flaws and Nintendo made a lot of mistakes, but it was home to some of the best and most influential games ever.

Kairon · « **Reply #1 on:** April 10, 2007, 09:09:52 AM »

It's like Fox News. That you can read outside.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Ceric · « **Reply #2 on:** April 10, 2007, 09:13:18 AM »

Quote
Five years from now, when the PS4 and NextBox show up, they're going to jump in hardware power again. And then Nintendo's left with a machine that looks two generations old instead of one

I stopped reading right there. For 2 reasons.

1) Nintendo never said that they would not release a new console in 5 years. In fact they imply the opposite.
2) Sony on the other hand has stated before that they like to get 10 years out of the PS3.

Strell · « **Reply #3 on:** April 10, 2007, 09:53:46 AM »

I couldn't figure out the logic there for the same two reasons Ceric mentioned. I also thought that Nintendo is definitely going to redesign the Wii when the time comes - they'll beef up the graphics (probably to 360/PS3 levels) and add more ways to use the controller.

If you honestly think there's nothing that can be added to the control scheme, you're off your nut. I can think of a few ideas myself, which means someone over at Nintendo has to be thinking of stuff themselves.

King of Twitch · « **Reply #4 on:** April 10, 2007, 09:55:11 AM »

More propaganda barrages from Sony. It is to be expected with continuing poor sales and to detract from the outrage of the lower-end version possibly being dropped.

Demoralizing potential new Wii owners is their best hope to catch up at the moment, the same way "Gamecube could be Nintendo's last system" worked last time around.

Rhoq · « **Reply #5 on:** April 10, 2007, 10:13:32 AM »

Did I read the same editorial that you guys did?

#7 (Wii) was a "What-If?" - They didn't say the Wii is a failure. They didn't even suggest it. All they said was that it's too early in the to really know for sure what the future holds for Nintendo's latest console. It did say that the Wii needs a good 2 years before we'll have a clear picture of where it's heading, especially with Nintendo's past history with 3rd party support on their last few consoles.

I also fully agree with them about graphics for the next generation of consoles. Nintendo better be able to match the offerings from Sony and Microsoft otherwise people might not be as receptive the next Wii as they were this time around, since the uniqueness of the current system would no longer be able to make up for it's other limitations when compared to the competition.

ryancoke · « **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2007, 10:31:37 AM »

I'm going to go the opposite route on this article... While the article seems really negative towards nintendo I agree mostly with the list...

1. The Wii: ok this one is complete BS. the Wii in no way should be considdered a mistake. Even if sales level off, it will still be considered a sucessful system.
2. The virtual Boy: I think we can all agree that this baby was a total bomb and a terrible system. It's like one of those crazy concept cars that's cool to look at but would never work in the real world.
3. Shunning online gaming: Anybody who says online gaming isn't important today is out of their mind.
4. Censorship: Anybody who bought Morkat Kombat 1 on SNES before they knew about the censorship would be pissed right off. I remember plugging in a game genie code just to turn the "sweat" back to red so it at least looked a little more like the real game.
5. Pissing off 3rd parties. I don't know if 3rd parties were that pissed off. But I think they were turned off by the lack of sales on Nintendo systems. Remember when EA dumped all the sports games for the 'Cube?
6. Nintendo 64: While I love the N64 and thought it was a great system, it definately would have been better with a CD-ROM
7. The Nintendo-Sony-Phillips debacle: Who knows how this would have turned out. If nintendo stuck with Sony maybe things would have totally bombed. Or they could have made the best system in the world. It's impossible to speculate. Based on what's happened, it's probably fair to say that nintendo probably would be better off now if they didn't have to compete with the PS1 and PS2 back in the day.

ShyGuy · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2007, 10:33:33 AM »

Your mom said you were a mistake...

Jin-X · « **Reply #8 on:** April 10, 2007, 10:50:45 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Rhoq
Did I read the same editorial that you guys did?

#7 (Wii) was a "What-If?" - They didn't say the Wii is a failure. They didn't even suggest it. All they said was that it's too early in the to really know for sure what the future holds for Nintendo's latest console. It did say that the Wii needs a good 2 years before we'll have a clear picture of where it's heading, especially with Nintendo's past history with 3rd party support on their last few consoles.

I also fully agree with them about graphics for the next generation of consoles. Nintendo better be able to match the offerings from Sony and Microsoft otherwise people might not be as receptive the next Wii as they were this time around, since the uniqueness of the current system would no longer be able to make up for it's other limitations when compared to the competition.

Please, you don't need 2 years of all the consoles being out to be able to predict who's gonna be on top. Those trends form very quickly and have a snowball effect. Right now the most likely to sell more is the Wii, the PS3 is sleeping with the fishes and the 360 likely second. Waiting 2 years to make a prediction on this is like waiting for the championship team to hold their parade before predicting who's going to be the champion.

As for the graphics; by match do you mean they have to have the same power as the XBX 3 and PS4? If that means $400 consoles as the starting point then no they don't. All they would have to do is match 360 and PS3 if Sony and MS keep doing the high price point thing. And I seriously doubt either of them goes over $400, this generation is teaching Sony that.

I think a lot of gamers are missing a big point. When we talk about "better technology", we always talk about graphics. But to the general population, the Wii has the superior tech, because to most people having virtual hands, bats, tennis rackets, swords, etc; is more impressive than the graphical jump between RE4 and Gears of War.

Deguello · « **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2007, 11:23:32 AM »

While we are on the subject of websites that grind our gears... (thanks Funhouse thread)

Check this one out

Makes you think all of this "childish Nintendo" stuff is pure fabrication. Even check out the comments. I swear, sometimes these blogs need to be put in their place, with their weird cult followers, too.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2007, 11:50:10 AM »

How can a console that is currently selling out everywhere (still haven't seen one in stores) be a mistake? Even if somehow interest in the Wii just dropped like a rock and everything went against the current trends and the Wii went from a success to a complete bomb overnight it doesn't make sense to call it a mistake right now. Right now there is no indication of that happening. And if the Wii being behind in hardware is a problem that isn't one that has to carry over to next gen. There's nothing stopping Nintendo from jumping "two steps" in one go.

Nintendo's biggest mistake is cartidges on the N64. That one decision completely changed the gaming landscape. Nintendo went from being synonomous with videogaming (ie: "playing Nintendo") to struggling for people to even acknowledge their existence. So far the Wii has almost undone that. Nintendo is suddenly relevent again and it's because of the Wii.

What if people get sick of the Wii? Well wait until that happens before declaring the Wii a mistake. At best it's a potential mistake.

I think Nintendo creating the Playstation is overrated in the "what a screw-up" sense. If Nintendo had not gone with cartridges I doubt the Playstation would have been as effective of a competitor. Sony pretty much didn't screw up when Nintendo and Sega did. It was like winning a race against competitors that broke their legs in a car accident on the way to the track. Nintendo "creating" the Playstation is mostly a nifty coincedence.

Kairon · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2007, 11:53:54 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Rhoq
I also fully agree with them about graphics for the next generation of consoles. Nintendo better be able to match the offerings from Sony and Microsoft otherwise people might not be as receptive the next Wii as they were this time around, since the uniqueness of the current system would no longer be able to make up for it's other limitations when compared to the competition.

I remember reading somewhere this guy's gross simplification of the three generation hardware cycle:

1: Innovation, market disruption, weak hardware -> reconquer market (NES, PS)
2: Same thing as before, but now with powerful hardware -> dominate market (SNES, PS2)
3: Still few changes to formula, but expensive, overpowered hardware -> (N64, PS3)

So by this observation, Nintendo WILL have strong graphics next time around, and then two generations from now they'll overdo it and have another fall from grace.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Artimus · « **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2007, 12:01:18 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Nintendo's biggest mistake is cartidges on the N64. That one decision completely changed the gaming landscape. Nintendo went from being synonomous with videogaming (ie: "playing Nintendo") to struggling for people to even acknowledge their existence. So far the Wii has almost undone that. Nintendo is suddenly relevent again and it's because of the Wii.

As sad as it is, this is likely true. Though, it's only typical of Sony's previous success that they do what is worst for the player and sell anyway.

Kairon · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2007, 12:05:21 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Nintendo's biggest mistake is cartidges on the N64. That one decision completely changed the gaming landscape. Nintendo went from being synonomous with videogaming (ie: "playing Nintendo") to struggling for people to even acknowledge their existence. So far the Wii has almost undone that. Nintendo is suddenly relevent again and it's because of the Wii.

As sad as it is, this is likely true. Though, it's only typical of Sony's previous success that they do what is worst for the player and sell anyway.

It's true, but it's a strange truth... Mario 64 could not have been done on CDs, at least not at that time.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Rhoq · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2007, 12:12:20 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
It's true, but it's a strange truth... Mario 64 could not have been done on CDs, at least not at that time.

Interesting. Can you elaborate?

Tanookisuit · « **Reply #15 on:** April 10, 2007, 12:18:31 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: ryancoke
2. The virtual Boy: I think we can all agree that this baby was a total bomb and a terrible system. It's like one of those crazy concept cars that's cool to look at but would never work in the real world.

I actually love my Virtual Boy. It's one of my favorite systems. It was a total bomb, but a really interesting and very fun system.

Kairon · « **Reply #16 on:** April 10, 2007, 12:21:26 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Rhoq
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
It's true, but it's a strange truth... Mario 64 could not have been done on CDs, at least not at that time.

Interesting. Can you elaborate?

Well...

Either we take that statement at face value and assume that load times in those days (on 2X CD drives like the PS') would've destroyed the essence of Mario 64 and, likewise, Mario Kart 64, Star Fox 64, and the huge worlds in Zelda: OoT...

Or we can instead take the statement to mean that Nintendo, and other companies at the time, hadn't achieved the level of streaming ability that would've been required to achieve lower load times on 2X CD Drives, thus resulting in the same effect above.

Both views hinge on the assumption that Miyamoto was right in valuing wide spaces and quick load times in his game design choices. In my opinion, I blame the adherence to the cartridge format on the master himself, for better or for worse...

A direct conflict: the business decision of CDs, or the freedom of a Creator to make what turned out to be the best games of all time? ... And which of those is the short-term, short-sighted decision?

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Artimus · « **Reply #17 on:** April 10, 2007, 12:21:40 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Rhoq
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
It's true, but it's a strange truth... Mario 64 could not have been done on CDs, at least not at that time.

Interesting. Can you elaborate?

Load/read times.

UncleBob · « **Reply #18 on:** April 10, 2007, 03:31:56 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Games Radar has posted an editorial [...]

Who?

Djunknown · « **Reply #19 on:** April 10, 2007, 05:13:29 PM »

They just did an interesting piece about what happens 'under the counter' at GS/EB. Now they put this out...

Quote
Hold B while flicking up to swing a punch?

Can anyone name the game that does this? Is it the GodFather?

Quote
Who knows what other joys he could have brought to this world if he hadn't left the company?

Chances are he'd still be alive, but that's neither here or there as they say...

The offline and MK arguments are sound, but it wasn't like the Genesis version had the blood there from the get-go. You had to put the code in (even though you could look it up in strategy guide, friend, gamer mag..) so at least there was a level of protection...

Quote
Third parties had a constant battle to map controls that made sense onto the controller. It was especially unfriendly to fighting games, so no Tekken, Street Fighter or Soul Edge for us

Hmmm... six face buttons on the N64? Only 4 on the PS? How's that unfriendly? Killer Instinct, Mortal Kombat Trilogy anyone?

The number one reason is legitimate through and through, I've had the unfortunate experience of playing Zelda: Wand of Gamelon. Nintendo tried to gyp Sony so we could play that?

Quote
The DS, a seemingly mental design decision, turned out to be the clear winner of the current systems. And Wii, well, if the momentum lasts, Nintendo's got nothing to worry about.

If this were a 1up feature, they wouldn't have put that final line in there. They would bash Nintendo and 'be up out this stank mutha %#$!'...

oohhboy · « **Reply #20 on:** April 10, 2007, 07:08:18 PM »

Sony and the Playstation was a catch 22 situation. If they followed through with Sony, Nintendo would have effectively handed the video game market over to Sony on a silver plater. Nuking thier relationship with Sony was ithe only way they could have salvaged. Nintendo took a massive hit, but it allowed them to survie to fight another day. The Wii is evidence of that.

The CD advantage of the time was poorly exploited at the time outside of the obvious price difference. Most of the games could have been made to fit inside a N64 cart, but the entire FMV = gameplay ensured that would never happen. The novelty of FMV and CD quality muisc simply overwhelmed gameplay considerations. Even now, we still feel the residual effects from that mentaity with lenghty cutscenes and fake gameplay videos.

The Virtual Boy was an absolute bomb. But it's actual damage was limited. By dying a really quick death, for most people it was only a distraction. The greatest lost was the man behind it. You can't buy loyalty of individual people. There is always someone else who can offer more. I am positive that Shiggy has had countless offers to defect. Gunpei Yokoi, IMO, had taken his failure at a very personal level. I don't think even if he was allowed to stay he would have. I wouldn't have able look at my co-workers in the eye.

The N64 controller, I can't see what so bad about it, other than the fact you couldn't access everyone of the controls from any one position. It allowed FPSs to be playable in full 3D on a console. Rumble, analodge.

Online, yeah that is fubar.

Most of the points in the artical, while valid, were mostly for the wrong reasons, or weighted incorrectly.

Ceric · « **Reply #21 on:** April 11, 2007, 03:32:44 AM »

I still want Virtual Boy games on the VC. Even if they have to be 2Dish. I really enjoyed most of my Virtual Boy Games.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #22 on:** April 11, 2007, 04:09:34 AM »

I'm going to quickly go over the points and respond.

7. The Wii
This is just a sensational claim to try and suck people into the article.

6. The Virtual Boy
No list of Nintendo's mistakes is complete without Virtual Boy. That said, I agree with others who argue that it didn't have a big impact on Nintendo overall - Game Boy continued to be popular. I'd argue N64 and maybe even GameCube were bigger problems for Nintendo's business as a whole. Definitely worth mentioning, but its overall impact was small.

5. Online gaming
There's no doubt that Microsoft dominates the online console game market. There's also no doubt that PS2 outsold not only the original Xbox, but also continues to outsell the Xbox 360! I'm not saying online gaming is unimportant, but there's one feature on the console market that is definitely moving systems right now and it's not online gaming - it's wand-waggling.
Online gaming is important, and Nintendo isn't denying that. Maybe it should be pursuing a more full-featured, convenient online model, but, again, I point out that such a model is not getting Microsoft anywhere right now.

4. Censorship
This was definitely a problem for Nintendo back in the day. The company's "kidsie" image still hounds it to this day, to the point where a lot of people still assume that games like RE4 are being censored by the big N. On the other hand, Nintendo's family friendly approach is currently allowing it to score big hits with products like Nintendogs, Brain Age and Wii Sports.
Still, Nintendo's one-time censoship had a major impact on its last three consoles and its image in general.

3. Third parties
I'd argue that this is the best point in the article. People think Square moved to Sony because Sony had CDs. If so, why didn't Square move to Sega Saturn instead? Answer: Nintendo and Sega were both raping third parties with massive liscensing fees (hyperbole, much?

) not to mention various censorship and other third party control issues Nintendo had.
Sony knew this was a weak point for Sega and Nintendo and fully exploited it. No doubt CDs helped Sony vs. Nintendo too, but Sony's lower liscencing fees and "do what you want" attitude made a difference. Ironically Sony is starting to become more restrictive - eg. all PSP games must have exclusive content.

2. Nintendo 64
A lot of the article's points about N64 seem like a rambling fanboy rant. Things like the controller may have been quirky, but I don't think they had a huge impact on Nintendo's sales like the vanishing third party support did.
The lack of CD ROM definitely hurt Nintendo, Square probably wouldn't have switched teams if Nintendo had included CD ROM, and supposedly Square encouraged other third parties to leave as well. As I stated above, I believe there was more to it than just CD ROM, but that was certainly a key point, if not THE key point.

1. Nintendo Snubbing Sony
This is definitely one of the most speculative points: many things could have gone wrong if Nintendo had stayed with Sony...but I must admit that I think N64 could have "taken" Sega Saturn if there'd been no other competition. I think Sony was definitely on the ball with Playstation on several points such as marketing, third party relations and ease of development.
That said, who knows if N64 would have been what it was if Nintendo had gone thorugh with its obligations to Sony? This was a big mistake, but who knows what was down the other path?

Artimus · « **Reply #23 on:** April 11, 2007, 04:47:22 AM »

Putting Sony at #1 is kind of silly, though. Because their success wasn't guaranteed in anyway. If Nintendo had done other things differently then Sony wouldn't have succeeded. It wasn't that decision that killed them. But the article is rather stupid so who cares...

Plugabugz · « **Reply #24 on:** April 11, 2007, 06:10:04 AM »

I read that article and laugh at it. They put a review up about a week ago saying Super Paper Mario is out April 9.

News:

Author Topic: The Wii is a "mistake"... (Read 14345 times)