Topic: Rockstar has a new game called IV

[GoldenPhoenix]

Just got this last night, but so far I'm finding myself liking San Andreas more.  Then again I'm only like, five hours into the game, so that could very well change.

I heard that there are no planes to fly in this one, though.  That makes me a very sad panda. 

That is what I was talking about in regards to the game feeling like a foundation game to build off of like GTA3 was. In some ways it is a step BACK from San Andreas when it comes to exploration, I LOVED the open area and woods in it and Liberty City in GTA4 feels cramped.

[DAaaMan64]

Wasn't San Andreas basically the size of a STATE?

[Maverick]

That is what I was talking about in regards to the game feeling like a foundation game to build off of like GTA3 was. In some ways it is a step BACK from San Andreas when it comes to exploration, I LOVED the open area and woods in it and Liberty City in GTA4 feels cramped.

Yeah that's what it's feeling like to me too.  It's like when The Sims 2 was released, instead of incorporating all of the features present in the expansion packs to Sims 1 like they should have, they repeated the formula for da monies and released near identical expansion packs for the second one.  Now I'm fully expecting them to do the same thing with 3.

This is inexcusable to me for a GTA game.  I was under the impression that Liberty City in GTA IV was going to be the size of San Andreas or bigger, when taking into account actual content and things to do.  It feels like a denser GTA 3 so far, and it seems they have purposely stripped advancements made in Vice City and San Andreas out of the game.

I'm still enjoying it, mind you.  I'm just disappointed.

[Caliban]

... and the story is quite solid (like most GTA games).

Like most GTA games? Hmm, well I would have to disagree with you on that point.
From the two GTA games that I played: GTA3, GTA Vice City. Both games of which I could not complete the main story because I fell into boredom, and I think the only thing that's keeping me playing GTA IV is the great voice acting and animations that come with the story cinematics.

There is one event which I've experienced in this game that I would have liked to have seen expanded onto other non-mission situations. In Mass Effect you could choose either verbal or physical actions during, or when the conversation was done, and in GTA IV there is a similar situation where you get to choose between life and death. I know that you can just run over people at your own will, except this situation is part of the story, and what I would like to see is this kind of choice applied to the conversations that Niko has with the main and secondary characters. I think it would give this game an even greater sense of freedom.

[Flames_of_chaos]

I'm considering getting this because of the stimulus checks going out in a week or so, I played GTA3 and VC I generally enjoyed them both but I didn't find the motivation of completing them. Is this game more enticing than both of them and is the "fun factor" greater than both titles?? Or should I just wait for a price drop??

[GoldenPhoenix]

Well I would say it is better than GTA3 and MAYBE VC, but it took a few steps back from GTA SA. It is really a next-generation version of GTA3 completely with better AI, better physics, better graphics (More technical than real changes to the gameplay).

[Flames_of_chaos]

Well I would say it is better than GTA3 and MAYBE VC, but it took a few steps back from GTA SA. It is really a next-generation version of GTA3 completely with better AI, better physics, better graphics (More technical than real changes to the gameplay).

I actually wasn't that fond of SA(played it a few times over friends), I heard that it isn't as big because they didn't want a lot of "empty space". Does GTA4 have the "RPG system" from SA where you build up your skills? BTW how is the online multiplayer? 

[Maverick]

I heard that it isn't as big because they didn't want a lot of "empty space".

I assume you're talking about GTA IV right here, saying it's not as big as San Andreas.  This is true, and one of the things I find myself missing the most is that empty space.  I feel so cramped all throughout the map that I have unlocked so far.  Perhaps that was the goal, however.

Does GTA4 have the "RPG system" from SA where you build up your skills?

As far as I can tell so far in the game, no.

[Flames_of_chaos]

I appreciate the fast replies guys, I think I'll try it while the game looks fun and intriguing I don't think for a second its 10/10 material.  In a way I think the cramped feel is perfect since it imitates NYC and since I've been to NYC many times it is a very cramped city.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Well I definitely say try it out if you can, it is a good game even if it feels more like a foundation game for future sequels like GTA3 was. I can't say anything about Online because I haven't tried it yet.

[Bill Aurion]

I have a question...Why (spoilers up through the Manhattan island) does every character I really like turn out to be against me?  I thought Dimitri was the coolest character up to that point in the game, but nooooo, he sold me out and now I hate him...Also Michelle, but noooooo, turns out to be a fed (who is still on my side, but still, I enjoyed the amusing conversations between the two of them, and I don't have that anymore...)  Now I can only hope that I don't have to kill/fight against Dwayne, because he's been pretty much the only mission guy that isn't an idiot or a pansy...

[Dirk Temporo]

I think GP just has his panties in a bunch about something.

If you don't play this game an instantly realize that it is, by far, the best GTA game to date, then you have some sort of grudge.

[Bill Aurion]

I hate how everyone gets all pissy when you say you are too busy to do something with them when they call you..."No, I do NOT want to play Rockstar's crappy pool, darts, or bowling minigames, stop bothering me!"

All of Nico's friends are a bunch of women... =(

[GoldenPhoenix]

I think GP just has his panties in a bunch about something.

If you don't play this game an instantly realize that it is, by far, the best GTA game to date, then you have some sort of grudge.

Please get the gender right next time.

I think I laid out perfectly why I felt it was a step back from previous games in the series and previous "clones" in the genre. But what am I doing responding to anything you say? You hardly ever have anything constructive to say. You are obviously a fan(boi?) of the series, and maybe some day you'll realize that some of us may not be taken in by the awe of a new GTA game. If you wish to debate points that I and others have made regarding "steps backs", go right ahead, that would be constructive unlike this stupid gushing post. I would think that after buying EVERY GTA game since GTA3 would give me the right to criticize whatever I want and show that I must not have a huge thing against the series.

To make it easy here is where I thought the series took steps back:

1. Escaping police is much more tedious
2. Less building interaction
3. Less ground to explore (I'm sorry but I like to feel free in sandbox games, which is why I have a soft spot for GTA SA. This is in itself is a reason to prefer aspects of San Andreas to GTAIV)
4. Some vehicles have been cut like the airplane (Probably will be in the next game)
5. Not really related to previous GTA games, but where is progress in character customization? There aren't even exercise related customization. Pathetic in my opinion especially when games like Saints Row will let you, gasp, actually be a woman! Amazing, some companies are actually getting over their sexist portrayal of women.


Some things that have not been fixed from previous GTA games:
1. Clipping
2. Slowdown
3. Sluggish controls, sometimes leaping over walls can be imprecise in the game recognizing what you attempted to do

[Bill Aurion]

While I agree with everything else you said, there are two of your points I would like to comment on...

"1. Escaping police is much more tedious"

I actually feel that outrunning the police is much more realistic and fun now that you actually have an idea of where and how to escape...


"5. Not really related to previous GTA games, but where is progress in character customization? There aren't even exercise related customization. Pathetic in my opinion especially when games like Saints Row will let you, gasp, actually be a woman! Amazing, some companies are actually getting over their sexist portrayal of women."

First, about exercise, as long as the game didn't force you to do it (bah, San Andreas)...Second, it's a lot harder to have character customization in a game with a story that is entirely focused on a specific character with a specific background (and gender)...Saint's Row's story is as generic as you can get in that respect, so they had a lot more freedom in character customization...(And personally I'd rather have a deep character than having the ability to change what my character looks like...)

[GoldenPhoenix]

Second, it's a lot harder to have character customization in a game with a story that is entirely focused on a specific character with a specific background (and gender)...Saint's Row's story is as generic as you can get in that respect, so they had a lot more freedom in character customization...(And personally I'd rather have a deep character than having the ability to change what my character looks like...)

Mass Effect did this perfectly, it just takes some effort and, um, talent. But knowing Rockstar, perhaps the most sexist developer around, you will NEVER have a female protagonist.

I actually feel that outrunning the police is much more realistic and fun now that you actually have an idea of where and how to escape...

Because we all know when you are escaping the police you just need to get out of a grid . I prefer the old method, and maybe I'm mistaken but it appears MUCH harder to get away from the police now because they are all over.

[DAaaMan64]

I actually feel that outrunning the police is much more realistic and fun now that you actually have an idea of where and how to escape...

Because we all know when you are escaping the police you just need to get out of a grid . I prefer the old method, and maybe I'm mistaken but it appears MUCH harder to get away from the police now because they are all over.

QFT, I hate spending so much time trying to figure out whether I'm going to get seen by a cop or how to get away from the cops.  Seems like it happens to often when I much more enjoy just running around and messing with stuff.

[Bill Aurion]

I'm still trying to figure out why you two like the old system more, which involved nothing but luck in hoping your stars would go away (or finding a star, which was pretty stupid...)  And outrunning two-stars, much less one-star is incredibly easy to do, so eh... =)

On another note, I finally beat the game, and I'm not happy...First, they killed off the Irish girl...That's just not right...Second, the game is basically a giant cliffhanger...So many loose ends it's not even funny, and the game left me feeling empty, which was the point, I guess, but it still pisses me off and I hate endings like that... =\

[DAaaMan64]

I'm still trying to figure out why you two like the old system more, which involved nothing but luck in hoping your stars would go away (or finding a star, which was pretty stupid...)  And outrunning two-stars, much less one-star is incredibly easy to do, so eh... =)

Shouldn't be too difficult to understand Bill. I liked how the cops locations were marked on my radar at all times and I thought it was totally easier to get away.  And there were less cops, leaving me to go about my crazy antics to random people.

[Bill Aurion]

Well that should teach you not to do crazy antics to random people...

(If it bothers you that much, just look up the phone number "Lower Wanted Level" cheat on GameFaqs...)

[DAaaMan64]

Well that should teach you not to do crazy antics to random people...

(If it bothers you that much, just look up the phone number "Lower Wanted Level" cheat on GameFaqs...)

I would too. haha But again this is from impressions of about 10 hours now, I don't actually own the game.

[Maverick]

GP, I don't understand where you're coming from with the *gasp I can't make Niko a woman" comments.  I understand if you prefer that kind of customization, but I myself have always enjoyed a specific character with a specific background rather than a "create-a-character" that fits into the story.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, though.

[GoldenPhoenix]

GP, I don't understand where you're coming from with the *gasp I can't make Niko a woman" comments.  I understand if you prefer that kind of customization, but I myself have always enjoyed a specific character with a specific background rather than a "create-a-character" that fits into the story.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, though.

Not if you are actually creative, it is quite possible to shift elements of a story to fit a gender of a character maybe even their background. Think of it as a multi-branching story that is somewhat different depending on the character you create, something like a Mass Effect which tailors elements to the character creation without making it feel like "A character that fits into the story". Sandbox style games are about role play as much as they are about the environment you explore, at least that is how I perceive them, character customization needs to expand not diminish. Yeah it may take some more work to integrate the customization into a story that actually revolves around that character, and personally I'm not sure Rockstar has the creativity to do so, but it is something to strive for. At least GTA's competition is trying to do that stuff, but Rockstar seems to be stuck.

Rockstar is so proud of their pushing boundaries, why not at least push some boundaries with a female protagonist. If they are so dead set against taking the time to make an integrated create a character why not really go into new territory with the gender of their character. They probably won't though, they seem more than happy to make females into prostitutes with hardly any strong females.

[Kairon]

GP, I don't understand where you're coming from with the *gasp I can't make Niko a woman" comments.  I understand if you prefer that kind of customization, but I myself have always enjoyed a specific character with a specific background rather than a "create-a-character" that fits into the story.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, though.

Not if you are actually creative, it is quite possible to shift elements of a story to fit a gender of a character maybe even their background. Think of it as a multi-branching story that is somewhat different depending on the character you create, something like a Mass Effect which tailors elements to the character creation without making it feel like "A character that fits into the story". Sandbox style games are about role play as much as they are about the environment you explore, at least that is how I perceive them, character customization needs to expand not diminish. Yeah it may take some more work to integrate the customization into a story that actually revolves around that character, and personally I'm not sure Rockstar has the creativity to do so, but it is something to strive for. At least GTA's competition is trying to do that stuff, but Rockstar seems to be stuck.

Rockstar is so proud of their pushing boundaries, why not at least push some boundaries with a female protagonist. If they are so dead set against taking the time to make an integrated create a character why not really go into new territory with the gender of their character. They probably won't though, they seem more than happy to make females into prostitutes with hardly any strong females.

I'm sorry to go against you here GP, but Rockstar is NOT making Mass Effect. They're making seedy underworld crime movies. And the movie they're making, in the form of a videogame, very specifically calls for a male protagonist.

What we have to realize is that Rockstar isn't really making a sand-box game. They're making a game recreation of these types of movies, within the confines of the sandbox genre. The only reason it's sandbox isn't because that's the boundary that Rockstar wants to push, but because American/Western gaming sensibilities emphasize freedom of choice and action, and deep full-scale simulations, over tightly wound gameplay threads.

The only thing that Rockstar wants to do is make games that are as close as possible to underworld crime movies... and a lot of those don't have female protagonists, nor do they offer the open-endedness that would accept a feminine character. I'm not a fan of that movie genre much, but it seems to me to be a very structured genre, a very narrated one, and one in which traditional and possibly misogynistic gender roles are very important and very prevalent.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Kairon and GP,

I think Rockstar likes to make games that give them "attention whore" status because they do something controversial. I remember GTA:VC had controversy because it had the racist blurb of "Kill the Hatians", SA had the whole hot coffee fiasco.

I think the main difference between GTA and Saints Row is that in GTA it centers around one person's story about making it big and Saints Row centers around a whole gang trying to gain control of all the turf in the city,so I think thats why Volition added in a male/female character creation feature because in Saints Row all your playing as in the beginning is just a Gang Member.