Topic: REVIEWS: Sonic and the Secret Rings

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I do not buy the opinion that they developed the Wii controls to be "hardcore"

They didn't: they developed the controls to navigate Sonic through the levels and obstacles ahead of him. "Hardcore" is the fact that you can replay all of the levels for an attempt to acquire gold medals and all of the fire souls.

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In fact if the argument Smash, along with others used about SR's controls being nothing more than something you get used to, then that means any game that can beaten should NEVER be critisized for poor controls, because it just takes "Practice". They can be like Sonic, imprecise, clunky, but you can still get "used" to them if you torture yourself long enough.

I probably spent, maybe 30-40 minutes before I had mastered the controls to the point where I was using Sonic to leap from platform to platform and get perfect timing so I was properly landing my jump cancels. When I say that the controls take longer to master, I'm comparing them to Excite Truck which ran you through the tutorial and then you pretty much knew how to do everything.

SR is a different animal in that you're constantly receiving upgrades which make you jump further, faster, higher, quicker, run faster, boost quicker, etc.

I've dealt with unusable controls and I've called them as such: these controls have a learning curve but are perfectly usable once you've learned them. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, trying to prove this point, but I honestly found these controls more than usable once I learned them. The fact that you did not has absolutely no bearing on my opinion of the game, just that I make sure to caution potential buyers that this game has more of a learning curve than any Wii title they've played before. This is because of poor design choices by Sega and the overrated nature of the game

 

[Smash_Brother]

Oh, come off it already.

Never did I say that the control was flawless, but it's fine for its purposes and is far better than the credit you give it.  

[odifiend]

I hate to drag this from the dead, but I read the reviews and remarked the scores everywhere and decided not to buy this game.  My brother though went rogue over the weekend and picked it up.  Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was ok, AX was a disappointment, Heroes was terrible, and I couldn't bring myself to give the ridiculous sell-out Shadow the time of day.  In the past on these very forums, I've had some very negative things to say about Sonic games on the GCN.  Sonic and the Secret Rings is good though.  I am having a lot of fun playing it.  It definitely does have a learning curve, which is the only fair criticism I've read.  But even that makes sense - Sonic is fast as hell and it takes a while to steer him effectively.
I'm not done the game but it seems clear to me that the reaction this game got is unwarranted.  I would even venture to say this game is at least a 7-8.  I am a fan of the Sonic the Hedgehog series on the Genesis and this game definitely brings the series back to its roots.  Sonic.  Running.  Fast. So Fast.  Not trying to be a jerk, but if you don't like this game, it could be because you don't like the idea behind Sonic games, because Sonic Team (or whoever) delivered on the concept.

[Ceric]

Read my review in the Reader Review Section.  I enjoyed the game but dinged it on some stupid decisions that had relatively obvious easy fixes.

[Kairon]

My little brother finished Sonic: The Secret of the Rings. Using the NWR review scale, he'd rate it about a 6 or a 7.

He thinks that all the little flaws and all the things that Sonic team can't get right... they don't ruin it, even though they show that the game could be a lot better. The concept is great though, which is what he's really giving it points for: when you get into the game and ignore the small things, "you realize that "hey, the game is really fun.""

I loved this thing he said especially:

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It's more like a pleasant prom date with a complete stranger. Nice while it lasted, not something you'll be going back to.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[ShyGuy]

Which makes it a 10.5 a 360.ign.com

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: odifiend

Not trying to be a jerk, but if you don't like this game, it could be because you don't like the idea behind Sonic games, because Sonic Team (or whoever) delivered on the concept.

Too bad I really loved Sonic 3 right? The game has many legitimate complaints besides the difficulty, even if you look at the myriad of reviews out there some are brought up multiple times so there must be something to them. You loved the game? Great for you, but realize that some of us had legit complaints regarding the game, and mine never were about it being too hard (Maybe if you are talking about clunky controls at times, or tedious missions, I'd agree).

[Kairon]

In my opinion, the complaints simply don't ruin the game experience enough to ruin the fun. *shrug* Eternal Darkness (and the RE series, in my opinion, especially control wise) had WAAAAAAAAYYY more problems than this game.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
In my opinion, the complaints simply don't ruin the game experience enough to ruin the fun. *shrug* Eternal Darkness had WAAAAAAAAYYY more problems than this game.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Well at least Eternal Darkness tried to be creative, and I actually WANTED to beat it.

[Kairon]

Huh? Sonic not creative? I'm sorry, but did you SEE THE GIANT DINOSAURS?!?! That's creativity INCARNATE!!! WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAa!

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[ShyGuy]

I stopped trying when she said Super Mario Bros had broken controls.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
Huh? Sonic not creative? I'm sorry, but did you SEE THE GIANT DINOSAURS?!?! That's creativity INCARNATE!!! WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAa!

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Lol. Well I cannot respond to that, I think you got me there!

[Smash_Brother]

No, I'm not starting this again.

No.

[odifiend]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: odifiend

Not trying to be a jerk, but if you don't like this game, it could be because you don't like the idea behind Sonic games, because Sonic Team (or whoever) delivered on the concept.

Too bad I really loved Sonic 3 right? The game has many legitimate complaints besides the difficulty, even if you look at the myriad of reviews out there some are brought up multiple times so there must be something to them. You loved the game? Great for you, but realize that some of us had legit complaints regarding the game, and mine never were about it being too hard (Maybe if you are talking about clunky controls at times, or tedious missions, I'd agree).

You loved Sonic 3?  Wow.  I loved it, too but you do realize that one changed the series focus from speed. In past Sonic games, you got Choas emeralds 'on the way' through speeding through a level.  Sonic 3 became about finding those big rings for emeralds which slowed down the pace of most players who didn't know exactly where they were.  I'm sorry but loving Sonic 3 does not prove you love the speed element of Sonic.

NWR rated this game as a 5.  To give you some perspective, Drake and Josh for the GBA pulled a 4.5 the other day.  Wii Play which did have a horrible control problem and no depth ranged from a 4.5 to 6.  Spongebob Wii got a 4.5.  I do realize that people have differing opinions, in fact I'm captilizing on it right here by offering my opinion - but a 5 for this game, are you serious?  I'm not trying to dismiss anyone's viewpoint and it is not my job to talk you into thinking you made a good purchase or whatever, but I stand by my statement that the reaction (and score) SSR got was unwarranted.  Haters, your opinion is noted and should be considered, but I just wanted to say I based my opinion on popular opinion and was pleasantly surprised with Sonic and the Secret Rings despite what that opinion said.  It feels like a real Sonic after a very long absence on consoles.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Wii play, a horrible control problem? Um ok. I'll admit it doesn't have depth but the controls were quite polished in the game. You are kind of fooling yourself if you think secret rings is about speed, many of the missions require backtracking, and collectathons which slowed the gameplay to a crawl (Not to mention the game itself feeling like a collection of missions instead of a complete game). Secret Rings is NOTHING like the old games, because if it was the levels and worlds would be interconnected, with a focus on getting from point A to point B, and moving on to the next level.

[odifiend]

Two words.  Laser Hockey.  Wii Play and polished controls don't belong in the same sentence...

Even missions where you have to make laps are about speed.  There is no "about facing" Sonic, so you are kidding yourself if you think it is not about speed.  It is by design and by perspective.  I never said the set up was the same as the classic games, but the sense of speed you get from the game is what Sonic is about.  If you can't anticipate and avoid obstacles quickly you aren't going to like any true Sonic game.  Secret Rings is fast to the point where it is unforgiving - whether that means death or trying to figure out how to make Sonic travel in reverse.
The strictness and the challenge do not make Secret Rings a bad game.  The developer seems to expect the player to have near perfect execution on run throughs while Sonic is running around 80+ mph.  Some of the complaints mentioned have been completely inherent to Sonic, the concept.  Not having enough time to charge jumps, having to backtrack because an item was missed, etc, etc...  The controls are not perfect (I hope there is an upgrade for jumping of rails because I hate doing it) but they are not that bad.  You are just controlling the fastest thing alive.  Frustration is going to come easier.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: odifiend
Two words.  Laser Hockey.  Wii Play and polished controls don't belong in the same sentence...

Even missions where you have to make laps are about speed.  There is no "about facing" Sonic, so you are kidding yourself if you think it is not about speed.  It is by design and by perspective.  I never said the set up was the same as the classic games, but the sense of speed you get from the game is what Sonic is about.  If you can't anticipate and avoid obstacles quickly you aren't going to like any true Sonic game.  Secret Rings is fast to the point where it is unforgiving - whether that means death or trying to figure out how to make Sonic travel in reverse.
The strictness and the challenge do not make Secret Rings a bad game.  The developer seems to expect the player to have near perfect execution on run throughs while Sonic is running around 80+ mph.  Some of the complaints mentioned have been completely inherent to Sonic, the concept.  Not having enough time to charge jumps, having to backtrack because an item was missed, etc, etc...  The controls are not perfect (I hope there is an upgrade for jumping of rails because I hate doing it) but they are not that bad.  You are just controlling the fastest thing alive.  Frustration is going to come easier.

Laser hockey is your best example of Wii play controls being unpolished? You are perhaps the only individual that I've heard comment that Wii Play has flawed controls, because personally I (among others) found them to be tight and yes, intuitive though the games themselves lack depth. I'm not kidding myself either when I see Secret Rings is not just about speed, yes there are some sections that are, but there are others that slow you down to a crawl when you are trying to collect things. Those particular missions weren't fun, and definately were not creative.

The only real segments I enjoyed in Sonic and the Secret Rings was what the whole game should of been, getting from point A to point B, like the first challenge in every world, which IS about speed (unless of course you don't time your jump perfectly and have to back up Sonic with its sloppy reverse mechanics). It is sad when Sonic Adventure had more variety in the Sonic based stages than Secret Rings 8 worlds, mixed with a myriad of challenges ranging from tedious to ok. I would have been thrilled with Sonic and the SR if it DID do what other Sonic games did, and that was focusing on speed and crazy level design, which do not force you to collect rings, or complete challenges to "unlock" the next string of Sonic mini-games with one real world to speed through as your first challenge.

[Karl Castaneda #2]

Sonic killed my parents and got my sister pregnant.

[Kairon]

When I was in first grade, Sonic stole my lunch money and pushed my face into the mud.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
When I was in first grade, Sonic stole my lunch money and pushed my face into the mud.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Did he have to back up to do so? Or was he running full speed forward?

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

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Originally posted by: Kairon
When I was in first grade, Sonic stole my lunch money and pushed my face into the mud.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Did he have to back up to do so? Or was he running full speed forward?

He was walking around a full 3D environment that looked a lot like some sterile Japanese neo city stereotype.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Hey hey hey, now.  Let's stop all this feuding about Sonic.  Whatever your opinion may be, I think we can all agree it's time to move on to Super Paper Mario.

[Kairon]

NO. First party. Not worth talking about.

Sooo... what about Bust-A-Move Bash guys? 8-player cooperative mode anyone???

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Smash_Brother]

BAMB looks hella sweet.