Topic: How do you review Wii games?

[NWR_pap64]

This was something I discussed with S_B some months ago, I think way before the Wii launched.

It started with the infamous E3 2006 impressions of Red Steel. Some people were having a hard time playing through it, and thus gave the game a bad preview, while others didn't have a problem and thus gave the game a decent preview.

This begs the question: Does this mean that some Wii game reviews will always be mixed because of the controls?

Let me elaborate this further. Some people hated Excite truck because they couldn't understand the controls, but a great deal of fans loved the game because they got used to it and love how precise it is. Another example, some fans truly enjoyed Marvel Ultimate Alliance, meanwhile S_B and friends couldn't comprehend the controls of the camera and thus their enjoyment was ruined. And finally, I am sure that Secret rings will get the same treatment since there are already people that have problems with the controls while others understand them pretty well.

What this means that truly good games will get mixed to bad reviews simply because the reviewers had too much problems learning the controls of the game, sometimes being too unfair.

Note that this tends to happen to Wii games that have a learning curve to them. Stuff like Wii Play, Wii Sports and simple, straightforward games (in terms of controls) like Zelda Twilight Princess and such will not have a problem since their controls are so easy to learn anyone can do it.

But stuff like Excite truck, which basically forces you to re-think how to play game, will have review issues since, like real world school subjects, some will get the hang of it right away while others will be slow to learn.

Agree? Disagree?

[King of Twitch]

The key is to put all the details into a review and address problems other people might have, let the overall scores reflect your own opinion, and don't let wiitards review games at all!

[GoldenPhoenix]

I think Wii games should be reviewed like any other games, if it is fun then that is all that matters. But in a game like Sonic when the controls feel like a hinderance more than anything, that game should get ripped apart. Sonic and perhaps Excite Truck to a lesser extent (at least the controls make sense since you are controlling a truck, not a Hedgehog) are gimmick games in my opinion with controls added just to add Wii controls instead of what will give you the best, most interactive experience.

[IceCold]

Wait, are you saying that Excite Truck would control better with an analogue stick? Wow, you're on a roll today..

EDIT: It doesn't matter how online sites review "nongames". Their success depends very little on reviews from gaming sites. Look at WiiSports. The scores were relatively low across the board, but it's an incredible success.

If you were to judge games on how well they achieve what they set out to do, then you could say that WiiSports is one of the best games of all time.

[Bill Aurion]

Laugho at analog stick for Excite Truck...Drifting would be boring and unintuitive...

Control issues for some may not always be control issues for all, this much is obvious (particularly when I see someone saying a game like Excite Truck or Trauma Center has "poor control")...It makes it that much more annoying to check up on game reviews, because when a game get bad marks for "poor control" you have no idea whether to believe it or not...  

[Adrock]

Wii games should be judged no differently than other games. Sh*tty controls are sh*tty controls regardless of the method of imput.

[NWR_pap64]

I thought Golden liked Excite truck...

[Strell]

I think it should be a team effort.  There should be 3 people playing the game and determining how the control is.

I also think there should be a "how much I suck at this" warning somewhere.  So people who hate it and really suck at it can potentially be ignored.

It's like when someone who has no clue about computers bithces and moans that their phone modem can't download an MP3 in less than 30 seconds, and they just don't understand why that is.  

[wandering]

Maybe. There are times when I want to shout at a reviewer: "No, it doesn't have bad controls, you just suck! Did you forget how hard it was to adjust to the analogue stick?"

...More often, though, I want to shout at game-starved Nintendo fans who talk up crap like Red Steel.  

[KDR_11k]

Just go to a review aggregator and pick a high and a low review. I think it's good that some have difficulties and tell us about it because if reviewers have problems I'd expect some normal users to have problems, too.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
I thought Golden liked Excite truck...

I actually love Excite Truck, I think I was misread. What I meant is that you could put joystiq controls into Excite Truck and it would control "better" but on the flip side it is more exciting on the Wii since with the Wiimote it feels like you a steering a truck (and in Sonic you are basically using a steering wheel to control a hedgehog, which IMO doesn't fit too well). Personally I really hope we don't see 3rd person games designed around the tilt functions of the Wii and instead focus on other ways to use the Wiimote in addition to using nunchuck control for movement.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Maybe. There are times when I want to shout at a reviewer: "No, it doesn't have bad controls, you just suck! Did you forget how hard it was to adjust to the analogue stick?"

...More often, though, I want to shout at game-starved Nintendo fans who talk up crap like Red Steel.

I have to agree there, though I would not call Red Steel crap more so average and Sonic slightly above average (so I'd give Red Steel a 5 and Sonic a 6). But I do think we as Nintendo fans get to the point we will take anything, heck just look back at the N64 days, some of the crappiest games around sold decently because there was nothing else (Anyone recall Cruisn USA). At least this time around I think PS3 owners are experiencing the same thing!

[Bloodworth]

I don't think it's a problem for experienced reviewers.  We've had to figure out how to judge games like Animal Crossing, Nintendogs, and Electroplankton.  Wii is also a step in a different direction, but I think what you're seeing is that instead of it being an issue of one or two crazy games, the new system affects dozens of games and genres.  That means a larger pool of reviewers, including reviewers who may not have needed to stretch their boundaries as much in the past.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
I think it should be a team effort.  There should be 3 people playing the game and determining how the control is.

I also think there should be a "how much I suck at this" warning somewhere.  So people who hate it and really suck at it can potentially be ignored.

It's like when someone who has no clue about computers bithces and moans that their phone modem can't download an MP3 in less than 30 seconds, and they just don't understand why that is.

That may be true, but games should be intuitive enough that you WANT to get experienced at it. There are some games out there that may be decent games when you get the hang of the controls but has such a steep or aggravating learning curve that it turns people off. Take Mario 64 for example, it was tough to control at first but it became second nature after a short time, and you WANTED to get the hang of it to experience what the game offers.

[NWR_pap64]

I am honestly getting sick and tired of the "Nintendo fans are a sad bunch" crap...

First of all, have you READ the best selling games list, Golden? You usually find Zelda TP, Wario ware, Trauma Center and Rayman, all great titles that were praised to high heavens. So the fans are paying attention and buying the high quality titles.

Second, its a general agreement that Red Steel was the victim of rushed launch-itis and thus suffered greatly from it, but the game was worthy enough to warrant a rent, just to see what Ubi wanted to do with it.

Hell, even fans that greatly loved the game are quick to say to RENT the game because the chances of you not liking are higher than the chances of you loving it and whenever the sequel is brought up they all wish that the game is more polished than the first.

So again, Red Steel was considered a disappointment, but NOT the worst game of the year material people claimed it was.

If YOU didn't like it that's fine. Some people loved it, others didn't. You fall on the latter category, so there's NO NEED for each camp to be at each other's throats. If they loved the game they simply saw something that brought them joy. Saying that they are a pathetic bunch of fans is stupid and just plain childish.

And finally, you are generalizing A WHOLE GENERATION OF GAMERS. True, I won't deny that there are fans that pick up everything that comes their way, but not everybody is like that. They actually take the time to analyze the game before picking it up and support the truly good stuff. They will call out the good and the bad, and do it loudly I might add.

Some of the best games ever are mentioned by both the media AND the fans. Even games that tend to be overrated actually offer some good stuff, and those were chosen by the fans.

So once again, stop saying that about the fans. You didn't like Red Steel, many didn't while others did. It's called being subjective. It isn't gaining you any sympathy or respect points.

[GoldenPhoenix]

It is odd how Wandering gets a slide but I get bashed for attacking Nintendo fans (when I used "we"). Those games you listed were all launch titles and since then there has been a big drought, there was also Red Steel on that list as well. I think that further illustrates my point that we can get hyped for something and buy, some will justify their purchase (May be true or they are just fooling themselves), while others admit we messed up and move on. I believe I am one out of many who bought Red Steel because of hype and wanting it to be good (I was really anticipating the game).

[ShyGuy]

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
Maybe. There are times when I want to shout at a reviewer: "No, it doesn't have bad controls, you just suck! Did you forget how hard it was to adjust to the analogue stick?"

...More often, though, I want to shout at game-starved Nintendo fans who talk up crap like Red Steel.

Red Steel was not crap. You're crap. Smelly crap.

[NWR_pap64]

BUMP!

Sorry to bump this again, but the latest reviews for SSX Blur prove my point.

The game is barely out, yet the game has received a lot of mixed reviews, mainly because of the controls.

The reviewers that gave the game a bad review complained that they couldn't understand how the new control scheme worked and wanted a more traditional game. Meanwhile, the reviewers that did enjoy the game said that they controls were rock solid and wouldn't play the game any other way.

[ShyGuy]

Pap, you are on to something.  I honestly expect Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime reviews to be widly varied as well. Adapt review-people!

[Ian Sane]

"There are times when I want to shout at a reviewer: 'No, it doesn't have bad controls, you just suck! Did you forget how hard it was to adjust to the analogue stick?'"

The only time I had problems with the analog stick was the first time I played Super Mario 64 on a demo at the PNE, months before the game out and with no instruction whatsoever.  I initially tried to control the game with the d-pad and though the controller was broken because no one told me otherwise.  I never even figured out there was a Z-button.  But the first time someone actually gave me some instructions I was able to adapt quite quickly.  The analog stick didn't take that long to adjust to.  Hell reviewers gave the GOOD early N64 games great scores so obviously they got used to it.

The Wii's been out a couple of months and reviewers have beaten games using the remote so they be used to it and lousy controls should be more obvious.  I think most of the game getting crapped on have it coming.  Hell this is still the "launch period" where most third party games are total sh!t.  Those of you defending every second game released will likely realize how poor those games are within a year after the really great games have come out.  Fans always overrate launch games.

[KDR_11k]

Let's not forget that an analog stick has far fewer modes of input than a motion sensor. I think what's a better comparison is unusual control schemes. Do you people remember how much flak Metroid Prime got for using a Zelda-like control scheme instead of dual analogs?

[SixthAngel]

I think it is not getting used to a new control scheme that makes reviewers have varied reviews but letting go of the old control scheme.  You need to remember that game reviewers for these sites have been using the same control scheme for game after game after game so it has become ingrained into their very reviewing process at times.  They simply can't get used to holding a joystiq in their hand and not actually using it.  Look at the posters here who had trouble not using the directional bad to turn Excite Truck.  Tilting immediately became my favorite way to control a racer but others had to pass the hurdle of the older controls.  You will see this for a little while longer because some reviewers will refuse to accept the new controls as being better/as good and especially because Wii games keep coming out with new control schemes like ssx that cause reviewers to fight with their joystick habit all over again.  There is no new "comfort zone" of similarity that most games have fallen in to control wise on the Wii as they did in the dual analog generation (and I love it).

[Plugabugz]

I found using Excite Truck incredibly simple and yet very intuitive at the same time. Partly because the controls were perfect.

On the other hand, i found Zelda (at first) a bit daunting because i couldn't remember the button placements of C and Z.
I didn't like Red Steel (only done two levels) because after 70 hours of Z-locking makes locking on with A seem too much of a struggle to move my thumb in that direction.

[IceCold]

At the beginning of Zelda, I kept forgetting that you had to set the item to B and then use it, so I clicked a direction on the D-Pad assuming it would work right away.

[KDR_11k]

They simply can't get used to holding a joystiq

Joystiq is the crappy review site, the controller is a joystick.