Author Topic: SNK and virtual console (Read 7301 times)

Amodaus1 · « **on:** February 06, 2007, 03:11:05 PM »

Anyone here have any info or rumors on wether the neo-geo will be added up to the virtual console?

Anyone else know if the virtual console might take up old forgotten portables, like the neo-geo pocket?

capamerica · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2007, 03:20:44 PM »

SNK was talking with Nintendo about bring Neo-Geo games to the VC, thats the last I heard about that and I think that was back during E3 2k6.

I hope we hear something soon, I would love to be able to download King of Fighters or Samurai Shodown.

JonLeung · « **Reply #2 on:** February 06, 2007, 03:24:20 PM »

If they did, it would be awhile before we see the Metal Slug games.

However, there's The King Of Fighters, Samurai Shodown, Last Blade, Bust-A-Move, and various other good games. Oh, yeah, Matrimelee and Rage Of The Dragons. My brother likes Windjammers for some reason, and I can usually beat him on Money Puzzle Exchanger.

Neo-Geo games need to be enjoyed by more people, especially so-called oldschool gamers. And the VC would be perfect for it...all games use only four buttons, so the four face buttons on the Classic Controller are fine.

Amodaus1 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2007, 03:37:36 PM »

your missing mark of the wolves on that list, it was the best KOF game, but really fell short of SF3 in terms of comparision, which is what snk was trying to compete with, either way, i want the neo-geo for last blade.

And i want the neo-geo pocket for the ogre battle game it has. Unfortunatly it was never released here, and i doubt they would localize it.

I hope nintendo and snk can strike a deal

Spak-Spang · « **Reply #4 on:** February 07, 2007, 01:32:54 AM »

How much space would a NeoGeo game take up though? And until the Wii Firmware gets an update to read directly from the SD Card Space management is going to get tough with larger format games.

vherub · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2007, 04:04:12 AM »

mario 64 vc ended up being something like 10 mbs. Larger than the rom, which is about 8.
Neogeo roms are similarly sized in the 10meg region, though some tip the scale much, much larger.
Roms may not be a highly accurate measure for how large games will be (at least, I haven't seen anyone doing a filesize comparison for all vc titles vs. roms), but most neogeo games should be sized similar to the 64 titles.

Ceric · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2007, 04:24:39 AM »

I like to see Neo-Geo and Wonderswan. Just so I finally have a crack at those games.

JonLeung · « **Reply #7 on:** February 07, 2007, 04:54:59 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I like to see Neo-Geo and Wonderswan. Just so I finally have a crack at those games.

Neo-Geo games are not to be missed!

I don't know much about the WonderSwan, other than that it had some Final Fantasy ports, a version of Mega Man & Bass, a few Digimon games, and the Capcom Vs. SNK Cardfighters Clash games. I don't care about Digimon, MM & B and the FFs are on the GBA, and CVSCFC is on the DS, so I think the WonderSwan is probably passable.

Arbok · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2007, 05:00:06 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: vherub
Roms may not be a highly accurate measure for how large games will be (at least, I haven't seen anyone doing a filesize comparison for all vc titles vs. roms)...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't each VC download contain both the Rom and the emulator for the Wii? I assume that's where the extra file size is coming from.

segagamer12 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2007, 05:54:24 AM »

even still MOST of the good NEo Geo games are avialable for SNES Genesis and Sega CD so its more likely they will be those versions coming first then neo geo ports latter if at all.

Neo geo is certainly doable since its nearly the exact saem hardware as genesis and only minor modifications are nescasary.

BlackNMild2k1 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2007, 06:06:06 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12

Neo geo is certainly doable since its nearly the exact saem hardware as genesis and only minor modifications are nescasary.

I don't remember Genesis being able to arcade perfect ports, but maybe I am wrong since I only owned a Genesis for about 2 weeks before I got rid of it. But I'm pretty sure you just got something mixed up.

JonLeung · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2007, 06:12:29 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: segagamer12
Neo geo is certainly doable since its nearly the exact saem hardware as genesis and only minor modifications are nescasary.

Wait, what? >_>

And weren't YOU the one who once said that the VC couldn't emulate Genesis games because it couldn't handle "blast processing" or some other "reason"?

The Neo-Geo was meant to bring the arcade experience home, so the Neo-Geo arcade games you'd often see in arcades and the home versions were exactly the same. (Or at least they were supposed to be, I think there was some controversy when one of the latest Samurai Shodown games was toned down for the home version.) The hardware was the same. But the hardware and games were (relatively) rare and expensive, with some games as much as $300. The original game system, when adjusted for inflation, I believe is said to be nearly $1000 in today's dollars ($993 or something), the most expensive game system ever, and anyone with a real and decent-sized library must be made of money.

Hence, most Neo-Geo fans today probably enjoy the games via MAME. Can you blame them?

Since SNK stuck it out with beautifully animated 2D sprite-based games for as long as they could, even "recent" games like SNK Vs. Capcom and Metal Slug 6 and King Of Fighters 2002 could be considered "retro". All the Neo-Geo games would be awesome to have on the VC so that people can experience them without being rich or using MAME.

segagamer12 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 07, 2007, 06:24:42 AM »

I never said that!

The gensis and Neo Geo have IDENTICAL HARDWARE ITS A FACT! THE DIFFERENCE IS IN THE z80! Sega used it for SOUND SNK usedit for GFX and had a seperate sound chip THATS IT ONLY DIFFERNCE. Neo Geo had more RAM too but thats EASY to emulate when you haev so much to work with as wii does. check the facts. We had this discussion before. Neo Geo USES a motorolo 68000 processor that is the EXACT SAME processor as Genesis, it was a little faster because it had the Z80 as a CO PROCESSOR hence why all the debate about weather or nto it was 24 bit (16 +8 chips) or 16 bit with an 8 bit co processor.

Edit

I never said Gensis ports were as good as Neo Geo thats putting words into my mouth, I said Genesis COULD have done Neo Geo games IF teh Z80 had been used for gfx instead of sound, but then the games woudl be soundless. Teh Sega CD games *should* have been perfect as it used CD sound and had 2 68K so work with, yet the lack of ram and stupid takara hadnlign the ports messed them all up.

Edit 2

On a side note, Eternal Champions was made using Model one hardware and was vastly superion to Neo Geo, they made a 100 % arcade port to Sega CD so technically speaking Sega CD COULD out class Neo Geo its justa case of devs not trying to push it. But that was SEGAS fault for being stingy with dev kits and other stupid Sh**

JonLeung · « **Reply #13 on:** February 07, 2007, 06:58:18 AM »

Relax, dude. I could've sworn you said something regarding Sega Genesis not being on the Virtual Console, maybe it was something about Sega not wanting it to happen, but that was long ago and it's possible I could've mixed you up with someone else. Sorry about the mix-up, and sorry for sounding so harsh if I did. But please chill out a little.

From what it sounds like, you're saying that they had the same processor, but the sound chip, amount of RAM, and how developers utilized the system were different.

Humans have something like 80% of the same DNA as a fruitfly and 60% of the same DNA as a banana. I remember seeing that in a science museum. Even if I'm remembering wrong, I'm sure it was over half, or a sizeable fraction, but my point is even if the processor is the same, but the only thing the same, that doesn't make them alike. There are a number of games where it's kind of hard to mistake one for the other. No one confuses a person with a fly or a piece of fruit.

But we're going off-track here. Regardless of the processor and emulation methods involved, I think we agree that the Wii should be more than capable of handling Neo-Geo games and also should have them there on the VC. (No need to start getting into technical knowledge showdowns about the Genesis!)

KDR_11k · « **Reply #14 on:** February 07, 2007, 07:13:21 AM »

The freaking Gameboy had a z80. With embedded systems the chip names don't mean much, they usually have customized versions of these chips.

The Wikipedia lists the Mega Drive as 68000 6.76 MHz, z80 3.58MHz, Neo Geo as 68000 12MHz, z80 4 MHz. Both use the z80 as their sound processor (if the MD used its z80 for graphics it wouldn't be able to output the sound the NG can*). Additionally the MD had a limit of 61 colors (out of 512) and 64 sprites on screen while the NG had 4096 (out of 65536) and 380 respectively. Since these are embedded systems it's quite likely that these limits are hard-wired.

*=The Mega Drive sounds so bad already I don't think a further decrease would be a good idea.

darknight06 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 07, 2007, 08:26:19 AM »

I would guess emulating the older titles might be OK, but I would much rather see the newer ones, especially the "Giga Power" ones as compilation ports like the KOF 2002/2003 setups with the enhancements they got. And heck no I would NOT play any of the Genesis port jobs over the originals, Takara along with Saurus and I believe Monolith did the ports on SNES and Genesis back then and they were nowhere close to being accurate on either system.

By the way, the newer Neo Geo titles tend to be in the 64 to 80MB range which is just not pratical for that 512MB of Flash memory. That's far larger than the Wii Opera web browser which is 24MB by itself.

segagamer12 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 07, 2007, 08:51:21 AM »

nevermind you dont get what i was saying forget it.

Louieturkey · « **Reply #17 on:** February 07, 2007, 09:43:34 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Quote
Originally posted by: vherub
Roms may not be a highly accurate measure for how large games will be (at least, I haven't seen anyone doing a filesize comparison for all vc titles vs. roms)...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't each VC download contain both the Rom and the emulator for the Wii? I assume that's where the extra file size is coming from.

It also includes a digital copy of the game manual as well, which probably takes up the most space in some games, especially NES games.

JonLeung · « **Reply #18 on:** February 07, 2007, 09:51:09 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Louieturkey
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Quote
Originally posted by: vherub
Roms may not be a highly accurate measure for how large games will be (at least, I haven't seen anyone doing a filesize comparison for all vc titles vs. roms)...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't each VC download contain both the Rom and the emulator for the Wii? I assume that's where the extra file size is coming from.

It also includes a digital copy of the game manual as well, which probably takes up the most space in some games, especially NES games.

Technically, the manual shouldn't need to be big, unless they have lots of screenshots and other images. Text really should be as simple as one text character = one byte.

I was really hoping that the manuals would've been digital scans of the original manuals, or the original digital files used to make them. >_<

Magik · « **Reply #19 on:** February 07, 2007, 11:11:27 AM »

The largest Neo Geo game is around 80mbs and that was for King of Fighters 2003. So when you add in the built in emulator, I wouldn't be surprised if its around 85mbs or so, which is quite a lot of space when we're only dealing with 512mb of memory.

ShyGuy · « **Reply #20 on:** February 07, 2007, 11:15:47 AM »

megabytes not megabits?

KDR_11k · « **Reply #21 on:** February 07, 2007, 08:33:14 PM »

The Wii only has 48 spots for channels and I doubt there even are that many NG games that would need to be covered.

Nephilim · « **Reply #22 on:** February 07, 2007, 11:00:25 PM »

"your missing mark of the wolves on that list, it was the best KOF game, but really fell short of SF3 in terms of comparision, which is what snk was trying to compete with, either way, i want the neo-geo for last blade."

Noway, local arcade had a KOF 2003 hack, kills boring old sf3

JonLeung · « **Reply #23 on:** February 08, 2007, 01:48:03 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
The Wii only has 48 spots for channels and I doubt there even are that many NG games that would need to be covered.

The Virtual Console was never designed for "collectors", which IMO is pretty dumb if people are willing to spend the money to get every game in a series.

I suppose most people aren't hardcore enough to actually "collect" VC games, but it shouldn't be hard to add an optional Wii Channel for people to consolidate and sort their games instead of having a Channel per game. Like VC Channels for genres (Zelda is SO NOT an RPG, stupid GameFAQs!), consoles (duh), favorites, custom, etc. I know they want to keep it simple but they could at least then lump them all in one Channel instead of taking up so much room. Ironically, it'd seem like it's simply a retro system if the majority of the Channels are VC games...

Of course, the biggest sign that it's not for collectors is its limited space. 512 MB? Come on. I remember an interesting article about how many games should theoretically fit on there, and you can fit many, but they were going by raw ROM sizes (without the manual and emulator) and you likely won't be having the larger Neo-Geo games and definitely not any CD-based games on there.

Magik · « **Reply #24 on:** February 08, 2007, 03:58:01 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
megabytes not megabits?

Megabytes.

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Author Topic: SNK and virtual console (Read 7301 times)