Author Topic: Manhunt 2 from Rockstar? Whoa... (Read 101933 times)

Ceric · « **Reply #250 on:** June 20, 2007, 12:35:33 PM »

I agree with Mr. Jack. Thats ridiculous there is no good reason that Nintendo shouldn't allow the release of this game on their system. Especially with the parent safety controls.

Edit: Actually they do have one recourse. Retool the game to work on a computer and use the drivers and like that allow for Wiimote on PC to enable those functions for those who can.

optimisticlimbo · « **Reply #251 on:** June 20, 2007, 12:47:45 PM »

I really don't see the point of an AO rating if no one can really use it.
This brings up an interesting question, what does this mean for No More Heroes? Suda51 said he wanted to TOP Manhunt 2. Does this mean it will be banned before even being rated? j/k

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #252 on:** June 20, 2007, 12:55:29 PM »

It means Manhunt2 will get downgraded to the point where No More Heroes takes the win.

I don't see why retailers treat M differently from AO when the M audience is technically adults with the addition of the oldest of kids -- CONTENT FOR PEOPLE ONLY 17+ IS OK TO KEEP AT WAL-MART?

Blue Plant · « **Reply #253 on:** June 20, 2007, 01:02:23 PM »

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Originally posted by: optimisticlimbo
I really don't see the point of an AO rating if no one can really use it.

Very good point.

Shift Key · « **Reply #254 on:** June 20, 2007, 01:11:30 PM »

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Games made for Nintendo systems enjoy a broad variety of styles, genres, and ratings. These are some of the reasons our Wii and Nintendo DS systems appeal to such a broad range of people. But as with books, television, and movies, different content is meant for different audiences. That's why the ESRB provides ratings to help consumers understand the content of a game before they purchase it. As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems.

Translation: "We appreciate the right to make games. We appreciate the right for people to play different games. We choose what you will play on our system."

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #255 on:** June 20, 2007, 01:14:46 PM »

NINTENDO COMPLETELY IGNORES THE PROLONGED SEX AUDIENCE

optimisticlimbo · « **Reply #256 on:** June 20, 2007, 01:21:21 PM »

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Originally posted by: Shift Key
Quote
Games made for Nintendo systems enjoy a broad variety of styles, genres, and ratings. These are some of the reasons our Wii and Nintendo DS systems appeal to such a broad range of people. But as with books, television, and movies, different content is meant for different audiences. That's why the ESRB provides ratings to help consumers understand the content of a game before they purchase it. As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems.

Translation: "We appreciate the right to make games. We appreciate the right for people to play different games. We choose what you will play on our system."

You can play what you want, as long as it doesn't exceed M. It's interesting that this issue with AO really hasn't been dealt with.

Ceric · « **Reply #257 on:** June 20, 2007, 01:39:37 PM »

Its like Ford, You can have your Model T in any color you want. As long as its black.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #258 on:** June 20, 2007, 01:50:28 PM »

I haven't really chimed in on this but personally I don't feel that bad about it. Rockstar has always tried to push violence, sex and gore for the sake of doing so, their arrogance now has got them an AO. There is nothing artistic about their gore, it is there for teens to get their jollies and brag about how mature they are because they played GTA or Manhunt.

nitsu niflheim · « **Reply #259 on:** June 20, 2007, 01:56:06 PM »

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Originally posted by: Deguello
I certainly hope none of you are pre-ordering it simply for its rating.

why would anybody do something stupid like that?

Kairon · « **Reply #260 on:** June 20, 2007, 02:43:38 PM »

It's gonna be great to finally have this game so I can judge for myself. I haven't owned a Rockstar title before ever, so I've always been on the outside looking in and never been able to feel truly confident in my opinion on the subject. Hopefully, along with a solid game, I find my own confident opinion based on first-person experiences with ManHunt 2.

Rhoq · « **Reply #261 on:** June 20, 2007, 03:47:04 PM »

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Originally posted by: Deguello
I certainly hope none of you are pre-ordering it simply for its rating.

No. I was planning to buy it regardless. Today's pre-order was simply due to the "AO" situation possibly hindering it's availability, though now that's a moot point since Nintendo doesn't appear to have any balls.

Kenology · « **Reply #262 on:** June 20, 2007, 03:50:48 PM »

I'm really hopin' that there'll be some kinda compromise here. I don't want the game to be stripped of ANY of its content so hopefully Rockstar will appeal the ESRB's decision. It's so unfair that games are held to such stringent stardards while other forms of entertainment are pretty much autonomous.

What's the point of an AO rating anyways if no one'll carry it and console manufacturers won't even allow these games on their systems? Then, how about that official Nintendo response? Initially, I thought they were behind Rockstar, but suddenly, that last sentence ("As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems") was the punchline (literally) that just blackened my eye and gave me whiplash at that same time.

I'm very disappointed.

that Baby guy · « **Reply #263 on:** June 20, 2007, 03:56:17 PM »

I still want to hear something from someone with a title behind their name at Nintendo. NOA may have drafted that as the company line years ago, and it might never have been revisited. I think we'll hear something more official sometime soon.

Rhoq · « **Reply #264 on:** June 20, 2007, 04:28:20 PM »

An interesting note - I was just visiting Nintendo's website to view the Manhunt 2 listing. It shows up on their Master Game List as "Rating Pending" however, if you open up the advanced search option - You can filter games by their ESRB rating. "Adults Only" is one of the choices.

NeoThunder · « **Reply #265 on:** June 20, 2007, 05:48:58 PM »

I wana state that if this games is released with a "AO" rating...I will buy it just because it has an AO rating. To make a game to is so graphically violent and earn an AO rating without it pertaining to sex is a feat all its own

Kairon · « **Reply #266 on:** June 20, 2007, 06:04:53 PM »

Now I almost regret buying Leisure Suit Larry.

Deguello · « **Reply #267 on:** June 20, 2007, 08:40:50 PM »

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Originally posted by: The Omen
Quote
Originally posted by: Deguello
I certainly hope none of you are pre-ordering it simply for its rating.

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Art is art, no matter what the form.

Art.

"While the exhibit's representatives claim that all of the bodies were obtained through the Dalian Medical University Plastination Laboratories in China, human rights campaigners point out that Dalian University "[has] had been previously implicated in the use of executed prisoners for commercial purposes".[2] If the bodies are those Chinese prisoners whose bodies were used without their consent, it may be a violation of human rights and of Chinese law."

Despite your showing this paragraph to point out what may be some heinous crimes, the fact remains it still resonates as art. Art doesn't fall under control of any man made laws, the artist does.

Art in fact, DOES fall under man-made laws. Would you argue that child pornography is art? You could. But its wrong and illegal. Displaying a dead body is in poor taste and has been illegal for a long time. The Bodies exhibit is different in that it is quasi-scientific in nature and they mostly got consent, but the ones that they may have not raise serious ethical issues. Hypothetically, suppose I wanted to use your blood as my paint. Since art is apparently free from man-made laws, I can bludgeon you and paint daisies on your wall in your blood. Now I'd imagine you'd how a problem with that and would not consent. But you would have just about as much consent as those contested dead bodies, or a very young child being abused by their guardians.

And isn't it strange to attach the label of "art" to a consumer good like this? I'm just not seeing the violation of liberties here or any sort of censorship. They've made a game under the auspices of a rating system that they agreed to beforehand. The ratings board labels it AO. All three console manufacturers say they'll deny all AO games (I bet Nintendo's the only one getting called out for it) and basically every retail outlet will refuse to carry it. HOWEVER the game still exists and they can publish it on PC or directly on their online store. They may not make a large profit, but that's the price they'll pay for their "artistic choice." Just because you make "art," doesn't mean you deserve profit.

The real story hee is that the ESRB may be tightening down on games not that they are starting to look more realistic and in the Wii's case, control more viscerally. I think same games that used to get M's might find themselves under the AO banner soon.

Shift Key · « **Reply #268 on:** June 20, 2007, 08:47:37 PM »

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Originally posted by: Deguello
The real story hee is that the ESRB may be tightening down on games not that they are starting to look more realistic and in the Wii's case, control more viscerally. I think same games that used to get M's might find themselves under the AO banner soon.

Deg, what do you think of the UK decision to ban it? Do you support the view that censorship is allowed to ban certain items from the public rather than letting the public make their own decision?

that Baby guy · « **Reply #269 on:** June 20, 2007, 09:02:42 PM »

For the record, I think if we consider so many movies artwork, then games should be protected the same way too. If the artist's vision is one of massive violence and bloodshed, then that's his vision. In video games especially, it doesn't happen in real life, whereas with movies, most live-action films at least simulate these things. Essentially, I believe that gory movies, things like Saw, and the like, are on the same level as this game will be, though I haven't personally watched the Saw movies, nor have I played Manhunt, I have to say that if one is considered art because of how gruesome it is, then the other, by virtue of obvious logic, should also be considered art by how gruesome it is.

Now then, there is a difference between the two: One looks as real as possible and isn't banned to minors. I wonder which one should be considered worse, considering tests have concluded that violent video games have little to no long term effects on aggressive behavior.

Deguello · « **Reply #270 on:** June 20, 2007, 09:15:43 PM »

Dunno about the U.K. Don't live there.

Mario · « **Reply #271 on:** June 20, 2007, 09:26:23 PM »

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Deg, what do you think of the UK decision to ban it? Do you support the view that censorship is allowed to ban certain items from the public rather than letting the public make their own decision?

This logic is flawed to hell and back. There will be mentally unstable people who will CHOOSE to buy Manhunt 2, and they will hopefully be stopped by this fantastic censorship law in the UK. People do NOT have a "choice", when it comes to breaking the law.

oohhboy · « **Reply #272 on:** June 20, 2007, 11:51:39 PM »

The reason why we ban child porn is the fact that it infringes on the rights of the child in order to make it. In normal porn that is not a concern since there is full legal consent from all parties. Even if the child did give consent to make the porn, it would be illegal since it would be an underaged, illegal contract.

ManHunt does not infringe on anyones rights in its production or use. You have a choice not to use or see it. Banning it is an overreaction and unnecessary.

Blasting Rockstar for making this game is pointless and counter-productive. There are developers that push the graphics envelop. Others push gameplay or story. Rockstar pushes violence. I say good for them. We need companies and people to push those boundaries. Without them we would still be naked in that cave in the mountain side.

Mario · « **Reply #273 on:** June 21, 2007, 12:01:39 AM »

Yeah, let's start making diseases stronger too while we're at it.

ubern00b · « **Reply #274 on:** June 21, 2007, 03:17:05 AM »

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Originally posted by: Mario
There will be mentally unstable people who will CHOOSE to buy Manhunt 2...

Exactly.

Just like there will be mentally unstable people who will choose to buy guns. Or knives. Or gasoline, fertilizer and a bus ticket. Or a thousand other tools or implements which can DIRECTLY harm other people. But we want to ban violent games that might influence an unstable person who is probably just as likely to be influenced by a violent movie, book, song, website, painting, statue, poem, anime or person "looking at them wrong". We try to rationalize and find a scapegoat for the horrible things people sometimes do, rather than addressing the root problems of psychopathy and sociopathy in society.

Which IMO is a bigger problem than violent media will ever be.

Regardless, this whole situation to me just shows that Video games aren't taken seriously as a form expression and story telling. Yes, this game is extremely disturbing and violent. So were "A Clockwork Orange", "Macbeth" and "A History of Violence". All of which I found compelling and unforgettable insights into the nature and horrors of humanity, that left me asking myself a lot of questions about us as species. Who's to say I, or any number of other gamers, won't take the same things Manhunt 2 ? Don't I have the right to play this game and decide for myself if it has artistic merit or is merely exploitative schlock ?

I, and I'm sure many other gamers, want video games to be able evolve into a rich media of story telling and social commentary that will rival the best pieces of literature and film. For that to happen, there is a need for games to be able cover more serious, and sometimes darker subject matter - which is never going to happen if every game that people feel "pushes the boundaries" is banned.

I don't object to restricting the sale of this game to adults AT ALL. I do, however, completely and utterly object to the outright denial of adults to experience it.

(Incidentally no amount of gore or violence in any form of media has ever come close to unnerving me as much as Lady Macbeth loosing her mind and obsessively washing imaginary blood off her hands)

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Author Topic: Manhunt 2 from Rockstar? Whoa... (Read 101933 times)