Author Topic: Manhunt 2 from Rockstar? Whoa... (Read 98860 times)

darknight06 · « **Reply #75 on:** February 07, 2007, 06:47:25 PM »

Truth be told, I only played the 3 PS2 games briefly so if they decide to do a San Andreas Stories I'd be more than willing to jump on it just because I haven't messed with it much beforehand.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #76 on:** February 07, 2007, 08:34:11 PM »

GTA Wii will be the only console version with good aiming...

Nephilim · « **Reply #77 on:** February 08, 2007, 01:43:13 AM »

Quote
Child porn and snuff videos are actual videos of criminal acts though. Violence in movies or videogames is faked. Someone didn't actually get killed to provide your entertainment. No one actually gets hurt in Manhunt. It's all polygons that look like people. I think the North American attitude towards nudity versus violence is that the nudity in a film is real. That's a real naked person so maybe you don't want your kid seeing a real naked person. However all movie violence is fake. You're not actually watching real violence. Plus kids are aware of violence most of their lives but normally aren't familiar with sex. With sex you can keep your child's innocence a little longer. But they're going to see blood the second they scrape their knee. Jack Thompson didn't go nuts over Manhunt because he doesn't know sh!t about games. His "knowledge" comes from what his supporters tell him. GTA got focused on because it was incredibly popular. It's like how there were games with blood before Mortal Kombat or Doom BUT those games were so huge that the politicians

99% snuff video's are fake but they are still illegal
whole noone gets hurt thing doesnt work here....

Ian Sane · « **Reply #78 on:** February 08, 2007, 04:44:22 AM »

"99% snuff video's are fake but they are still illegal
whole noone gets hurt thing doesnt work here"

Well I think in theory it's supposed to work like that but in typical fashion good ideas get taken over by extremists. Thus fake snuff films and animated kiddy porn are as illegal as the real thing. But then most of the population is grossed out by stuff like that (myself included) so there isn't much fuss when that sort of thing is illegal.

Personally I'm fine with simulated violence as long as you put a warning on the box to let me know what I'm in for so if I'm a parent I can make good choices about what my kids are allowed to watch and I can also avoid content that I just personally don't feel comfortable with. So there's no censorship but there's still responsibility. It's win-win but Jack Thompson types don't see that or more likely they do but just don't care.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #79 on:** February 08, 2007, 04:55:45 AM »

I don't think the content descriptors for Manhunt indicate that it's much worse than, say, Unreal Tournament. Of course the name should have been a clue but still, I don't think a parent can know just from the ESRB notice that Manhunt is much worse than the average violent videogame.

jasonditz · « **Reply #80 on:** February 08, 2007, 10:01:47 AM »

A quick glance at the box reveals that Manhunt is rated M for mature and that it's a game about a serial killer murdering people in creative ways. While it may not be possible just from that to infer exactly how "M for mature" the game is, it should be enough to make an educated decision.

In general, is a serial murder simulation suitable for your kid or isn't it? If it is, I can't imagine where you'd find Manhunt uniquely objectionable. And if there is any doubt the parents have any number of sources for additional information (including asking some guy at the store).

I've had parents ask me questions like that... and I don't even work in a store, they just come up while I'm shopping and ask "do you know anything about Prince of Persia" or whatnot.

Kairon · « **Reply #81 on:** February 08, 2007, 10:35:18 AM »

Wait a minute, so this game isn't an expansion on the lore and themes revealed in this pivotal scene from the 1983 movie Flashdance?

But..but... CYNTHIA RHODES WOULD BE THE GREATEST M RATED GAME EVAR!

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #82 on:** February 08, 2007, 11:00:33 AM »

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I don't think the content descriptors for Manhunt indicate that it's much worse than, say, Unreal Tournament. Of course the name should have been a clue but still, I don't think a parent can know just from the ESRB notice that Manhunt is much worse than the average violent videogame.

The Toys R Us near here keeps all M rated games behind glass behind the counter.

With visual clues like that, it should be pretty clear to parents that something is up with these games.

Kairon · « **Reply #83 on:** February 08, 2007, 11:02:45 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I don't think the content descriptors for Manhunt indicate that it's much worse than, say, Unreal Tournament. Of course the name should have been a clue but still, I don't think a parent can know just from the ESRB notice that Manhunt is much worse than the average violent videogame.

The Toys R Us near here keeps all M rated games behind glass behind the counter.

With visual clues like that, it should be pretty clear to parents that something is up with these games.

Really? Are you sure the parents don't think it's the videogame equivalent of a McDonald's Menu?

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #84 on:** February 08, 2007, 11:05:21 AM »

Honestly, given how dumb parents are, no.

jasonditz · « **Reply #85 on:** February 08, 2007, 02:16:28 PM »

I wonder if parents are really as dumb as they say, or if they're just making a cop-out after something bad happens.

I was playing tons of "M for Mature" type games when I was a kid... granted this pre-dates the ESRB, but its not as though my parents were totally mystified by the content of some of these games. Many times I'd specifically show my mom some of the worst parts of those games... like "hey mom, watch, I'm going to rip this guy's spine out".

Kairon · « **Reply #86 on:** February 08, 2007, 02:57:57 PM »

My parents have always let me watch Rated R movies! /happy

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

KDR_11k · « **Reply #87 on:** February 08, 2007, 07:40:07 PM »

The Toys R Us near here keeps all M rated games behind glass behind the counter.

With visual clues like that, it should be pretty clear to parents that something is up with these games.

Problem is that any somewhat violent game gets the M rating and games like Quake are harmless compared to Manhunt while the parent has no way of telling that one is worse than the other.

UltimatePartyBear · « **Reply #88 on:** February 09, 2007, 03:04:37 AM »

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Problem is that any somewhat violent game gets the M rating and games like Quake are harmless compared to Manhunt while the parent has no way of telling that one is worse than the other.

That's because the M rating is inherently flawed. There's only a one year difference between the age recommendations for M and AO games. That's just stupid. We'd all be better served if the M rating was for 16 year olds and more games were rated AO. I know, there's still only a year difference between the current M rating and my idea, but I think it would result in stuff like Manhunt being rated AO because it makes it just that much harder to rate it as appropriate for minors.

The name of the rating is foolish, too. "M for Mature" is a perfect marketing slogan for selling anything to kids. It should be named something dry and boring, like T16+ in keeping with E10+, or maybe DBTFYKS for "Don't Buy This For Your Kids, Stupid!"

Ceric · « **Reply #89 on:** February 09, 2007, 03:27:21 AM »

It is a little ambigous. My biggest example was that Starcraft got the M rating. My parents let me play it because in all actuallity it was a T game with Cartoon Violence, blood, and I think some language.

Personally with how M is there is a lot of games I think should just go ahead and get AO because there not for kids and M is such weak sauce. They need to strenghten it. THere are a lot of games that should be T with a few warnings on them not M. That way the games that truly deserve it can have it.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #90 on:** February 09, 2007, 05:19:32 AM »

I agree that rating system is a great idea executed poorly. All sorts of tame stuff gets an 'M' or 'T' and doesn't deserve it. Honestly I think anything that no one would have cared about in the pre-ESRB days should get an 'E'. They give Street Fighter II a 'T' but NO ONE complained about their kids playing that game when it came out. The only games that really caused a fuss were titles like Night Trap, Doom and Mortal Kombat where there was a clear amount of graphic violence or sexual content that isn't appropriate for kdis.

Ideally there shouldn't be a rating for every game, though I think the ESRB is a good way to try to fend off government regulation. I think a game with the sort of content that would require an R-rating for a film (graphic violence, nudity, profanity) should have a warning rating on it (like the explicit lyrics tag for music albums) and everything else should have nothing. In the past games were either appropriate for kids or they weren't. I think a method like that would make things more consistent and we won't see as many wishy-washy ratings that make no sense.

JonLeung · « **Reply #91 on:** February 09, 2007, 05:43:00 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I agree that rating system is a great idea executed poorly. All sorts of tame stuff gets an 'M' or 'T' and doesn't deserve it. Honestly I think anything that no one would have cared about in the pre-ESRB days should get an 'E'. They give Street Fighter II a 'T' but NO ONE complained about their kids playing that game when it came out.

Actually, I remember overhearing a mom in a game store when Donkey Kong Country was new. She was asking a clerk about it. "Is this game okay? I don't want violent games where they beat each other up, like that Street Fighter." Sure, the ESRB was new (I believe Donkey Kong Country was the first Super NES game to have a rating, and that was K-A, the equivalent of E), so maybe she wasn't aware of the rating, but I thought it was pretty ridiculous that she would think that Donkey Kong was anything like that. I don't remember how old the kid was, but I remember thinking that he was certainly capable of handling the "brutality" of Street Fighter II. I suppose it's good that she asked, though, it shows that she's concerned (even if overly so).

From what I know of Manhunt, I think it ought to be AO. There are too many M-rated games that are tame and if I was a parent, I might let some of my teenage kids play some of them. But I'm less likely to be as willing to allow them to play Manhunt.

Shooters like Halo are rated M, aren't they? I could be wrong about Halo. But even so, there are likely games LIKE Halo that get an M. I don't think shooting mostly alien beings with fantastical sci-fi weapons should be in the same category as Manhunt. Even when you're shooting other humans, they're armored and it's not that gory.

Even M-rated games where you kill people realistically like in the Hitman games shouldn't be in the same category. If Hitman: Blood Money is an M, Manhunt is a step up. The difference is that Hitman encourages "clean" kills, and discourages unnecessary kills. In Manhunt, you're killing more people in gory fashion, using common items more often than in Hitman. Also, Manhunt deals with themes other than killing (like psychoticism).

The difference between M and AO is just one year, though, so I think the descriptors need to be better.

The ESRB should have video clips on their web site of examples of some of the "worst" stuff in each game. That would help a lot. Or at least a more detailed textual description.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #92 on:** February 09, 2007, 06:53:30 AM »

"Shooters like Halo are rated M, aren't they? I could be wrong about Halo. But even so, there are likely games LIKE Halo that get an M. I don't think shooting mostly alien beings with fantastical sci-fi weapons should be in the same category as Manhunt. Even when you're shooting other humans, they're armored and it's not that gory."

I think Halo is 'T'. FPS games tend to get at least 'T' ratings and then get bumped to 'M' if there's a fair bit of blood. Goldeneye got a 'T' and then Perfect Dark added words like "b!tch" and had the bodies leave noticable pools of blood and thus got an 'M'.

Edit: Looked it up. Halo is an 'M'. Nevermind. Guess I should have done the five seconds of research prior to clicking "submit".

Kairon · « **Reply #93 on:** February 09, 2007, 07:24:25 AM »

Soooo... when will those darn *Rockstar people port over the GTA PSP/PS2 "Stories" games? When will they port over Warriors? When When When?!?!?!?!?! So many Rockstar games I'd buy if only they came out on a console I owned!

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #94 on:** February 09, 2007, 07:35:13 AM »

The positive thing about Manhunt 2 (and Godfather) is it'll help pave the way for more interactive SpecOps/assassin type gameplay.

Sneak up on a target from behind, cover their mouth, drive a knife into their torso side, twist it, wait for him to stop making noise, switch to your silenced pistol and advance further into harm's way, using motion controls.

utarefsoN · « **Reply #95 on:** February 09, 2007, 04:10:28 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Soooo... when will those darn *Rockstar people port over the GTA PSP/PS2 "Stories" games? When will they port over Warriors? When When When?!?!?!?!?! So many Rockstar games I'd buy if only they came out on a console I owned!

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

when Manhunt sells well on the rev. Until them i suspect they are gonna take a wait and see approach. If it does well Rockstar being the capitalist that they are will promptly port evrything they got. And all other developers will follow. It all depend on our support. So everyone buy Manhunt the day it comes out! I for one will preorder. And if its an AO rating i shall buy two. An AO rating on a Nintendo console... a collectors item to be no doudt.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #96 on:** February 10, 2007, 04:29:02 AM »

Might be AO after all...

Hmm...

MaryJane · « **Reply #97 on:** February 10, 2007, 04:31:40 AM »

From that story it seems the game hasn't even been rated yet.

They said they're "expecting" the game to get an 18+ rating.

Artimus · « **Reply #98 on:** February 10, 2007, 06:30:03 AM »

I see no problem with the ESRB system. It's fairly comprehensive. Stores should enforce it. It doesn't harm anyone.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #99 on:** February 10, 2007, 08:55:23 AM »

I think ESRB needs to be redone, I've seen many M rated games that don't have half the violence, language etc that an R rated movie does. In fact many "M rated" games like Halo would be almost PG-13 in the way of violence. For some reason ESRB is much more strict with games, almost ridiculously so when it comes to ratings compared to the movie industry.

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Author Topic: Manhunt 2 from Rockstar? Whoa... (Read 98860 times)