Topic: Capcom Announces First Wii Game (by Inafuna)

[Kairon]

Wait a sec... so... if Halo 3 won't sell systems just like Gears of War isn't really selling systems, (looking at X360 sales data) is there any point in "countering it" at all?

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[ShyGuy]

Nintendo needs to make a Halo 3 killer so I can feel more like a real man.

On the subject, if Capcom did a Dead rising port to the Wii, I'd check it out.

[Ian Sane]

"First, as I recall, it took Microsoft a long damn time to open up an appreciable lead on Nintendo - well after the Blessed Advent of Halo."

Actually it took a little over a year.  The Xbox pulled ahead after Christmas 2002 and the Cube never caught up.

"Second, it is preposterous to suppose that the GC would have sold the same without those games; it would have become a genuine flop, not just a disappointment."

Well yes I suppose if 90% of the Gamecube's best games were not released the Cube would have done a lot worse.

"And lastly, you're reasoning as if Halo is the only difference between the Xbox and the GC. Which is especially odd coming from Ian, since he routinely hauls out a laundry list of mistakes he believes doomed the Cube extending far beyond individual titles."

Well I do believe that the Cube flopped largely because Nintendo seemed to f*ck up pretty much everything.  Though I include an overreliance on franchises as part of it.  One problem Nintendo has is that they are often accused of rehashing because they release too many franchise games.  So Nintendo's response to that was to CONFIRM it by going hog wild on sequels.

I don't think that just the games is the reason the Cube didn't sell BUT I think if they were true system sellers people still would have bought a Cube.  There were a lot of problems but the console still worked and was reliable and affordable.  People put up with Playstations 1 & 2 even though it was practically a given your console would die within a few years because it had the games they wanted.

Plus franchises in general only sell for so long before they get stale in the eyes of the public.  The system sellers of one generation usually don't have the same selling power next gen.  Why buy a Cube for Mario?  I don't need a Cube for that.  But Halo.  I NEEDED an Xbox for that.  I NEEDED a PS2 for GTA in 3D.  There was nothing comparable.  System sellers provide an experience that you need the console for (or in the case of Halo's LAN stuff what ignorant people THINK they need the console for).  Halo 3 actually won't sell as well as Halo 1 & 2 did BUT it's newer, cooler, and more popular than Metroid Prime (as unfair as that is) so it'll still kick its ass in sales.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Wait a sec... so... if Halo 3 won't sell systems just like Gears of War isn't really selling systems, (looking at X360 sales data) is there any point in "countering it" at all?

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Nope.

Catering only to your fanbase easily brushes aside the outsiders who peeked over your fence in curiosity, just as Nintendo did on GameCube.

Audience and reach of the system's appeal goes flaccid.

And I hate the notion of "killer app".  People around here seem to believe that "killer app" also includes being "a excellent game," which I think is very questionable.  "Social phenomenon" is more appropriate, since it's the buzz around the product that helps expand its audience.  GTA is one, Pokemon is another, Nintendogs next, and Wii Sports is the latest.  Effective buzz doesn't necessarily get around because aspects of the game are good, but because people like them (and therefore will shellout the cash for it).

Just cuz people like something doesn't mean it's objectively good/reasonable/valid.  But at the very least, a so-called "killer app" hits the sweet spot in people, causing wallets to open.

[Jin-X]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Wait a sec... so... if Halo 3 won't sell systems just like Gears of War isn't really selling systems, (looking at X360 sales data) is there any point in "countering it" at all?

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

My point exactly, people that love shooters already know that the 360 is where they need to go to get their fix. While Halo 3 will spur sales of 360s (duh), it won't be nearly as much as some people seem to think.

On a sidenote: please stop saying Metroid Prime is an FPS or compare it to Halo, it makes my head hurt. As somebody who has beaten Halo 2 in Legendary in single and co-op and beaten Metroid in hard mode, I find any of these comparisons incredibly 'tarded and most come from people that haven't played one of them (most likely Metroid) since the core gameplay of these games is fundamentally different.

[zakkiel]

Quote
Well yes I suppose if 90% of the Gamecube's best games were not released the Cube would have done a lot worse.

A system seller is a game that causes people to buy systems. To say that people would have bought fewer systems without a game is exactly equivalent to saying that game sold those systems. Since you acknowledge that without those games fewer systems would have sold, you also acknowledge that those games were system-sellers.  

[Dirk Temporo]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
Ummm, none of those games are near the star power of the Halo franchise.

You're saying... That Mario doesn't have the star power of Halo.

...

[Kairon]

Blisterin' Barnacles! It's Tin Tin!

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[utarefsoN]

well i dont think mario has the same pull as Halo does either. I dont know one sole who bought a gamecube to buy a mario game(expect maybe one who bought mario kart for his son). However, I know legions who bought an xbox just to play ONE game. we all know what game that was. Actually 2 games as it had a sequel..
Im a Nintendo fan boy till the death (almost) and i bought damn near every game worth buying on the cube not ONE was a mario game. But i meant to buy Double Dash but havent yet, ill just wait fot the rev version, but you cant really call that a mario game can you?  

[Smash_Brother]

Halo fans make a lot of noise, but I don't think there are quite as many of them as one might expect.

Though, Halo 2 outsold Halo 1 by over a million copies so the userbase clearly expanded, but that was also later in the Xbox's life.

Also, Mario DOES have more star power than Halo, according to the fact that NSMB currently sits at 8.6 million worldwide while Halo 2 (the highest selling Halo) has 7.9 million worldwide.

Clearly, Mario games can still push the sales, but I think it has to be the right KIND of Mario game in order to do that. Mario 64 was a brand new world, in terms of Mario games, and has sold 11.89 mil worldwide. SMS? Notsomuch, with only 5.56 worldwide.

NSMB was apparently just what people wanted from a Mario game. The only question now is whether or not Mario Galaxy will do for the Wii what Mario 64 did for the N64.

[Adrock]

Halo appeals to more people in general. Mario appeal to Nintendo fans primarily. When put side by side, Halo 3 is more likely to draw non-360 owners into purchasing a 360 than Galaxy is into drawing people into purchasing Wii.

And really, Nintendo doesn't need to combat Halo 3. As backwards as this sounds, they don't need a "Halo killer," just like no one ever needed a "Mario killer." Sonic wasn't a "Mario killer." Sonic was Sonic, a character in a good game (well, back in the Genesis days anyway). Nintendo just needs to make sure Wii has a steady flow of good games. They need to keep people playing and coming back for more.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
Halo appeals to more people in general. Mario appeal to Nintendo fans primarily.

Do I detect a false dichotomy here?

There are two kinds of people in the world: Nintendo fans and everyone else.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Galford]

Wow I didn't expect to start a fire storm.

Mario appeals more to the market Nintendo is catering too.  My parents know who Mario is, but they don't have a clue who the Master Chief is.
For the crowd who's first system was a Playstation or XBox just about everyone knows the Master Chief.  Much as I hate to say it people who don't know what MGS 4 or FF13 are, know the term "Halo".

I just brought out Halo 3 because the hype is building as we speak and it's casual appeal.  People are beginning to get invites for the multiplayer beta.  Come this summer we will see trailers in movie theaters.  In the fall we will see commercials in primetime on major networks.  I know I will be sick of hearing about Halo before it's launched.

What I wish Nintendo would do is pick one AAA game and decide this game will run against Halo.  Sent aside $10 million and pimp the hell out of it.
The last time Nintendo did this was with DK64.  Remember the stupid trailers in the movie theaters?  It worked.  DK64 sold over 1 million in 24 hours.

The purpose of my original post was to get a hive mind assessment of how Nintendo is going to handle this coming holiday.

[Kairon]

DK64 sucked...

Galford, you're just wondering if Nintendo will fight a traditional hype war against Halo 3? Or if they need to at all?

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[TerribleOne]

Quote
Originally posted by: Galford
Wow I didn't expect to start a fire storm.

Mario appeals more to the market Nintendo is catering too.  My parents know who Mario is, but they don't have a clue who the Master Chief is.
For the crowd who's first system was a Playstation or XBox just about everyone knows the Master Chief.  Much as I hate to say it people who don't know what MGS 4 or FF13 are, know the term "Halo".

Well as inadvertedly as it was you brought up a good point. Until Ian pointed it out, i never realize what he said: Nintendo needs Generation Now games. Us as nintendo fans hold on to the franchises but it's going to get to the point where it's going to be Mario vs. Pac-man. Nintendo is a business and gaming company which is why it baffles me as why it doesn't attempt at catering to multiple markets. I thought i was never goin to get tired of anime... but as i get older i care less for it. The way i could care less about mario.

We all root for Ninty but i believe it's true: we need sumthin new to universally hold on to just like people worship master chief, MGS, Gears of War, or watever it takes.

[Kairon]

Is this the "mature game speech?"

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[TerribleOne]

Nahhhh.. its actually the opposite.. it's the "i'm not 13 in 1994" speech

[ShyGuy]

Man, are we back to this? Nintendo was too kiddie five years ago...  

"I need guns and sex and violence to really, yknow, connect with me and my situation up in here. Mario ain't me. That dude from GTA is me, cause I'm mature, yo!"

On the subject, I really didn't care for the Lost Planet demo, I hope Capcom's upcoming Wii game is better.

[Pittbboi]

You guys are really missing the point.

TerribleOne isn't saying Nintendo needs to come out with a "mature" game.  What TerribleOne and Ian seem to be saying is that it's about time Nintendo come up with something truly new, and back it like they would a franchise. I'm personally tired of seeing Nintendo try these new concepts and then slapping Mario/Metroid/Zelda on them.  It's about time Nintendo created a new Mario. A big, major game that's a totally new idea but not a non-game like Nintendogs and WiiSports. The Cube proved it: The Nintendo franchises only appeal to the people who already know them. They are not bringing in anyone new, and over time they're growing increasingly stale (Hell, Mario's popularity peaked YEARS ago).

It's time Nintendo put their franchises on the back burner and hit us with something new. They've claimed the non-gamer with Nintendogs and WiiSports; now I think it's time Nintendo proved that it's still relevant to the today gamer and release a totally new, "traditional" game that doesn't go anywhere near Nintendo mascots. Prove that they can create a new face of gaming like they did years ago with ease. I think the last time Nintendo seriously gave that a try was with Pikmin, but as Ian said, the marketing of that game was so terrible there was no way it would take off.

[ShyGuy]

Excite Truck, Project Hammer, and Disaster: Day of Crisis are made 'specially for you.

[Kairon]

What? I thought Pikmin's marketting was GREAT!!!

But I think I understand you guys now. Nintendo's made a lot of new innovations and IPs recently actually, but almost all in the non-game category: Wii Sports, Nintendogs, Animal Crossing... They've had established franchise games like NSMB and Zelda prove successful for traditional gamers as well, but they haven't really set out to create a new traditional game IP in recent years and really get excited about it...

It would be interesting to see what that would look like if it happened. Of course, it doesn't NEED to happen, not with Nintendo sales strong with its bevy of new non-traditional IPs, and Nintendo can of course get by with its stable of franchise characters and usually excellent games... but still, despite the lack of any true necessity, one wonders if there isn't an itch that needs to be scratched by a brand new traditional-style Nintendo gaming effort done in earnest abandon instead of in half-steps.

Maybe EAD can't be in three places at once? Already put to work by Miyamoto to restore the glory of slightly tarnished franchises and also put to the task of developing the next Wii insert-theme-here hits, the next Brain Training, Nintendogs, and the next Animal Crossing... EAD may simply be too caught up getting things done right (as compared to the GC era) instead of getting things done exciting.

Nintendo's second parties have shown competent stuff, but nary a spark of true breakout potential among 'em. Maybe a third-party could fill the gap, and maybe that's what Nintendo's best hope will be?

But until that little mystery is satisfied, we're gonna have to be content with always excellent franchise titles and shockingly untraditional yet fun new non-game IPs.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[TerribleOne]

EXACTLY Pittboy. Please, I could care the games some of you enjoy...

but the fact is you can't sit there and act like Nintendo is coming up with new franchises. As bitter as you may be about the content of some games, they're essentially the new "Metroids", "Marios" or "Zeldas". At least these companies are trying. Of course it also isnt fair to Nintendo due to their shaky and renewed relationships with Third Parties but at least they should lead the way instead of constantly trying to modernize OUR franchises.

The perfect indication of all this is seen in the exitement of announcements of Wii-exclusive games. People on this forum and Nintendo fans all around are hyped about Sadness, Day of Disaster, and the Capcom game... and you know close to NOTHING about them but it's NEW and YOU WANT IT.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Excite Truck, Project Hammer, and Disaster: Day of Crisis are made 'specially for you.

All half steps. None of them really likely to break the mold to establish names for themselves. Destined to be quality games relegated to the dusty shelves of history, remembered alongside the likes of Baiten Kaitos and P.N.03.

I think... what some gamers really want to see from Nintendo is a Beyond Good & Evil.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Pittbboi]

Quote
Excite Truck, Project Hammer, and Disaster: Day of Crisis are made 'specially for you.

While I'm kinda excited for Project Hammer, and Disaster: Day of Crisis looks like it'll be a good game though it doesn't appeal to my personal tastes, these game aren't out yet. The only one that is is Excite Truck, and it just serves to illustrate my point. A lackluster, unoriginal racer that's too short with crap for multi-player.....way to throw us a bone, Nintendo.

Quote
All half steps. None of them really likely to break the mold to establish names for themselves. Destined to be quality games relegated to the dusty shelves of history, remembered alongside the likes of Baiten Kaitos and P.N.03.

QFT

[denjet78]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Excite Truck, Project Hammer, and Disaster: Day of Crisis are made 'specially for you.

All half steps. None of them really likely to break the mold to establish names for themselves. Destined to be quality games relegated to the dusty shelves of history, remembered alongside the likes of Baiten Kaitos and P.N.03.

I think... what some gamers really want to see from Nintendo is a Beyond Good & Evil.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Um... don't you mean a BG&E done right? The game mostly felt like a tech demo to me. It didn't feel like a finished game.

Anyway, whenever people start to talk about how Nintendo needs to do this or Nintendo needs to do that, it invariably ends up turning into a "Nintendo needs to be ME-TOO!" in order to compete with Sony and MS. I think they've already proven that they don't need to go anywhere near Sony or MS to retake gaming.

I'm sorry but everyone here seems to think that the only way for Nintendo to become worthwhile again is to step backwards and fight a traditional games battle. Well, traditional games are a dying breed. I don't think we're going to see Nintendo try and create a new traditional franchise ever again. We may get crossover games with elements of both a traditional and new non-game but I don't see any new major traditional games coming from them. And to be honest, that's more than fine with me.