Topic: Nintendo's Online Strategy

[GoldenPhoenix]

Since it appears this topic is pretty popular at the moment, I decided to create a thread that can go over what is positive about Nintendo's online strategy and what is negative in a constructive manner. I've taken my opinion along with others to compile a list of things that Nintendo is doing right and wrong.


Interface:

-Slick and clean inteface
-Easy to use
-Needs a better way to organize channels
-VC channels for each game needs to be modified in favor a more organizational way of sorting your games

Wii Channels:

-The weather channel needs some work, at the moment it is a fun freebie but it needs more consistent updating
-Internet Channel is quite intuitive and easy to use, but it still needs some tweaking. If done correctly it could turn out to be pretty neat (please add keyboard compatibility Nintendo!)
-Mii channel needs more variety in character creation
-Some other channels would be great, and could add more incentive to owning the Wi

Online gaming:

-Well not much is known about this but I do have a few suggestions
-PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE require all online games use the Wii's address book for friend codes. It is bad enough to have friend codes, but to force you to input another set is ridiculous
-Some kind of pairing system similar to Xbox Live would be great, maybe not as complex but something to link gamers together with similar skill levels

Virtual Console (this is the biggie):
-The online store is easy to navigate but I get the feeling the current design may not be adequate later on, there has to be a search function of sorts later on
-Emulation is solid in the VC games
-Is it that hard to tell you what percentage of the game is downloaded? It is a must that Nintendo lets you see percentage downloaded, especially for larger games that will most likely be out in the future
-Pricing is fine in my opinion for the most part. More flexibility should be provided for NES games though, I'm sorry but some of those games shouldn't be priced similar to the better NES titles
-It would be great to have some enhanced versions of games. Perhaps have the "new" more expensive version of a game and the classic version which is cheaper. This could be farmed out to 3rd parties to get them more involved
-Home brew content is probaly coming but I hope Nintendo doesn't forget, like they sometimes do
-This 3-5 releases a week has to go, most of us will be long dead and gone by the time VC has most of the SNES, Genesis, TGX, N64 and NES libraries released
-Give us some games that have not been released in our region

In conclusion:

I'll admit I am impressed by Nintendo's first real attempt into the "multimedia" realm with its channel and VC system, but it still has lots of bugs to work out. As with every other online interface for consoles, it takes time to put it together, but I think Nintendo has something special if they stick with it. Hopefully it will not go the way of the GC, where Nintendo could have made great strides in putting together their online interface. In regards to Virtual Console, I think it is a must that more titles should come out on Mondays, even though I have already spent more money on VC than Xbox Arcade. Nintendo has an amazing library but they can't keep stretching it out, and PLEASE give us some revised games, preferably with an option to purchase the enhanced or the original version at different price points.

In regards to the Internet channel, I think Nintendo may have hit on something if opera can fix the bugs. The Wiimote makes for an intuitive mouse, and all we need is keyboard compatibility. I see potential in Internet Channel being a selling point for the Wii if handled properly (the resurrection of Web TV?).

I think we have to realist in regards to online play, friend codes are here to stay but I think it is imperative that you only need one friend code and that is the one on your address book. Not only that but Nintendo could benefit greatly from some sort of linking for players who choose random play, to best balance online gameplay like the XBox Live even if you can't add them as a friend.

ANYWAY, I'd love to hear your guy's thoughts. It is exciting to see what Nintendo can do with online, but they still have alot of work left. Just don't give up hope, it will take time to put together a functioning online structure, like Xbox Live before it.  

[UERD]

Is Nintendo's infrastructure technically capable of hosting a friends-matching (XBox Live/battle.net)-type service, or MMORPG-type games?

[Hocotate]

I agree with most of your points. I don't place so much importance in online play (FFXI is about the only thing I play online), so really I wouldn't mind much at all if the Wii had no online gaming, but what is possible is very nice.

The friend’s codes don't bother me as much as some people... It's free so I don't mind; now if I was paying a monthly fee I'd be upset. Overall I'd say Nintendo is doing a wonderful job for their first real delve into an online console (but then again I don't hold online gaming to the same high regard as some here).

[MorningStar]

It's hard being an avid online PC gamer who plays anything from FPS, to RTS, to MMORPG's online and then going to something like the Wii's online system. I understand it takes time to get things done right, but I just wish it'd be sooner rather than later. But, for now, I have my PC and Battlefield 2 (and Wii Zelda on the side).

I second that question about Nintendo being capable of handling MMORPG's.

[Artimus]

FF:CC better be damn close to MMORPG (I know it's not a consistent world, but still).

[Mario]

Some good points but

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-PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE require all online games use the Wii's address book for friend codes. It is bad enough to have friend codes, but to force you to input another set is ridiculous

I have no idea how spending 20 seconds to input another number is "ridiculous"

[Artimus]

I agree it's ridiculous. It's totally unnecessary. The problem is that you have to GET your friend's code. That's fine if you had ten friends, but if you have 50 it's absurd to try and get a new number for every game. You'd have to mass message everyone. The ridiculous part is that you already have an address book that is completely accessible to the game. There's just no excuse.

[Pittbboi]

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I have no idea how spending 20 seconds to input another number is "ridiculous"

It's ridiculous because you really shouldn't have to do it. Period. There's no valid excuse for having to have multiple friend codes other than this nebulous "child-safety" thing that's been thrown around lately.

Anywho, I agree with just about everything there. Especially your points about the virtual console. My biggest fear was always that they were going treat the VC as a buffer, and they have yet to convince me that they're not going to. The virtual console can be a great asset, but only if they treat it like what it really is: a library of their old games. trying to spread the releases over the console's life isn't acceptable. Reggie saying that there's going to be a Christmas "surprise" from Nintendo and having it be SMB isn't acceptable. The very possibility that anOLD game I really want on the VC could not be released until 3-4 years from now isn't acceptable.

I said it in some other thead: I really believe that, in order for the VC to become the huge draw it can be, Nintendo's going to have to get most-if not all-of its old content uploaded by Q3 2007, and really focus on new online content for Christmas '07. That way they have both the gamers and non-gamers covered with what will be a more complete service.  

[SixthAngel]

My only complaint with Nintendo online is that there is no online play yet.  I like the online aspects in games like Elebits and it is just a matter of time before it is extended to full online play.  Once that is fixed I will have no complaints.  I don't like the idea of individual friend codes but I still don't think it will happen and it is free.  Besides, I at least will be able to pick the name I want.  On xbox live for somereason microsoft put every word in the dictionary into the sytem as unusable names.  I tried dozens when I firts got live and I have never seen anyone else without stupid numbers or misspellings.  For example if I want my name to be youarecool I don't want to be forced to write joorl33t.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Mario
I have no idea how spending 20 seconds to input another number is "ridiculous"

...except that you have to do it for every other person you intend to play that game with.

[Plugabugz]

The parental controls should be able to extend to online features. For example, if a console has the controls deactivated, a person regardless of their age, shouldn't be able to play against a minor without the unlock password.

[Artimus]

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Originally posted by: Plugabugz
The parental controls should be able to extend to online features. For example, if a console has the controls deactivated, a person regardless of their age, shouldn't be able to play against a minor without the unlock password.

This, to me, has always been the dead obvious solution. You have a fully functioning online system where you can chat with people and add them to your address book and everything you want. But you can turn off all those 'dangerous' things with parental controls and then just play against people already in your book or random opponents you can't talk to. Best of both worlds. If the parents don't turn it on then that's their own doing.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Well I'm going to have to go with others here, the main reason why I hate the idea of having to input MORE friend codes for each game is that it really makes the Wii address book pointless. If you are going to do the friend codes, at least let one code be the end all for every game. Right now in my address book I have right around 30 people from NWR and I do not want to gather their codes for each game that comes out, it is absolutely pointless to require that.

[Kairon]

Aside from the "one friends code" issue (in which I agree with the consensus: one friend code only plz! Anything else is just too limiting for the end user)...

I think Nintendo needs a proof of concept game for it's online. If you want online play the clear choice is XBox Live. Nintendo needs to offer something different and new. They SHOULD NOT beat MS at their own game, they DO NOT need an FPS. What they need... is Animal Crossing!

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[Artimus]

MMOAnimalCrossing has been needed badly for a long time. The lack of that is why I never bought Wild World. Imagine thriving cities and such for you to putt around in. That would, I agree, be a killer app.

[IceCold]

The whole Pictochat fiasco shows exactly why Nintendo should be using friend codes..

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I think we have to realist in regards to online play, friend codes are here to stay but I think it is imperative that you only need one friend code and that is the one on your address book.

Well, RAB brought this up, and I am wondering about this too. What if there are multiple users on one Wii, and all of them want different profiles? Then the single address book code won't be enough.

[Pittbboi]

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Originally posted by: IceCold
The whole Pictochat fiasco shows exactly why Nintendo should be using friend codes..

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I think we have to realist in regards to online play, friend codes are here to stay but I think it is imperative that you only need one friend code and that is the one on your address book.

Well, RAB brought this up, and I am wondering about this too. What if there are multiple users on one Wii, and all of them want different profiles? Then the single address book code won't be enough.

I don't think there would be a huge problem with having several accounts under one friend code. The friend code is only tied to the Wii you own; not the person. Thus you could easily introduce a log-in system that allows several accounts under one Wii friend code.

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: Artimus
MMOAnimalCrossing has been needed badly for a long time. The lack of that is why I never bought Wild World. Imagine thriving cities and such for you to putt around in. That would, I agree, be a killer app.

ARGH! I DID NOT SAY MMO!

MMO Animal Crossing will basically turn into a big 'ol Sims Online. PRIVATE PERSONALIZED SPACES are what gives AC its charm, and its ability to drive us to acquire new furniture. Animal Crossing should be just as MMO as PSO is.

ARGH! MMOs ARE NOT GOD'S GIFT TO VIDEOGAMES! IF YOU'RE NOT WOW, THEN YOU HAVE A 150k user base! THAT IS NOWHERE NEAR KILLER APP FOR CONSOLE!!! KAIRON SMASH

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[couchmonkey]

All this talk about multiple friends codes stems from the Pokemon thing...and I thought we already realized that that was required for Wii-to-DS play.  Case closed!  I agree that all online should use the same friends' code.  Games could handle individual player accounts in-game if needed...but I think we're counting chickens before they've hatched on that complaint.

Personally any inconveniences with Nintendo's online are cancelled for me by the fact that it's free.

I agree that VC organization both in-store and on the channels could probably use some improvement.  I have a suspicion Nintendo is going to expect us to delete games we don't want anymore to download new ones.  (With the old ones still being downloadable for free).  It works, but it's not really the best.  There should just be one channel to store all VC games, and you could optionally put them as individual channels if you want.

[NeoThunder]

Ok...this is what i wana know.

If the whole idea of friend codes is to keep preditors away from kids.  Then I want to know is, when did preditors start stalking kids on online console gaming.  I've never heard of a case where a kid was suduced while playing halo2 on xbox live.  I mean really, lets face it.  When your online playing you can't really talk private stuff that you don't want your parents to hear.  From the preditors point of view it's not the easiest way to meet and suduce kids cause it's so easy to get caught....just one call to microsoft, they have the credit card #, address, and a lot more information that is easier to hide when your chatting online.

OK, so again I ask, is there really a risk of exposing kids to preditors on a gaming console online?  Maybe you'll run into some jerks, and a system to avoid or turn them off should always be in play, but in my opinion.  I really don't think this is a serious worry.

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: NeoThunder
Ok...this is what i wana know.

If the whole idea of friend codes is to keep preditors away from kids.  Then I want to know is, when did preditors start stalking kids on online console gaming.  I've never heard of a case where a kid was suduced while playing halo2 on xbox live.  I mean really, lets face it.  When your online playing you can't really talk private stuff that you don't want your parents to hear.  From the preditors point of view it's not the easiest way to meet and suduce kids cause it's so easy to get caught....just one call to microsoft, they have the credit card #, address, and a lot more information that is easier to hide when your chatting online.

OK, so again I ask, is there really a risk of exposing kids to preditors on a gaming console online?  Maybe you'll run into some jerks, and a system to avoid or turn them off should always be in play, but in my opinion.  I really don't think this is a serious worry.

Actually, there are cases. Someone posted a link in another topic. I'll see if I can dig it up.

EDIT: Here's a couple quick links to one case that made the papers. It's like roaches though. You see one and there's probably at least a hundred in the walls that you don't.

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/05/151223
http://gamepolitics.livejournal.com/171996.html

If there's any possible way that a predator can get in contact with a child without their parents knowing about it someone is going to be there ready and waiting to take advantage of it. Friend Codes aren't fool proof either, but it's an extra layer of protection that does make it somewhat more difficult.

Besides, Friend Codes are also for the non-gamer and people intimidated by online. They streamline the entire process. You want to play with your friend, you trade codes, enter them into your games, and away you go. No searching, no random matching (unless you want that as Nintendo has offered that feature before), and no having to deal with morons who wander the net just looking for people to piss off. You can basically create your own little gated online community. Right now, I think that would make a lot of people feel safer about the whole thing. Remember, the media has played up the internet as this horrible place where everyone is out to steal your identity and molest/murder you and your family. Live isn't helping that image. It's so hardcore that it makes online feel unreachable, and unsafe, for most gamers.

Nintendo's just trying to create a stress free environment for new and lapsed gamers. Would a more feature rich network be preferable for existing ones? I don't know since I don't even play games online. Most of them just suck. But I can understand why some would want them. Nintendo will probably slowly add features as it's network evolves. As for right now though I think just making people feel comfortable is the most important thing.

[Pittbboi]

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If there's any possible way that a predator can get in contact with a child without their parents knowing about it someone is going to be there ready and waiting to take advantage of it. Friend Codes aren't fool proof either, but it's an extra layer of protection that does make it somewhat more difficult.

But see, this is just a risk that is going to be taken when dealing with anything that involves the internet. I don't see why Nintendo is taking such outlandish precautions. Gamers who want to play online with the world will go around friend codes to do so. How many websites out there are providing means to trade friend codes with people you don't know? The risk is still there, and it always will be (and there's not much of a risk, anyway. The number of cases of predictors stalking children via video games is drastically lower than on other chat functions on the internet). The friend code system right now is more of an annoyance than an actual safety precaution. As an actual safety precaution it's just too flawed.

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Besides, Friend Codes are also for the non-gamer and people intimidated by online. They streamline the entire process. You want to play with your friend, you trade codes, enter them into your games, and away you go.

Your logic here is flawed. You imply that without friend codes, it wouldn't be easy to play online with friends, and that's just not true. With Xbox Live and even PS3, it's actually a lot easier to connect with your friends, because you don't have to worry about entering in each other's friend codes. And you can connect with people around the world just as easily through the provided system. Whereas with Nintendo's friend code system, if you want to connect with people you don't know, you have to deal with the hassle of outside means provided by various websites. Add to this the fact that it still hasn't been confirmed that you won't have to enter friend codes on a per-game basis, and that could possibly mean needing several codes per person for every game you want to play with them. I fail to see how that's easier in any sense. The friend code system isn't streamlining the process, it's just making it harder to connect with the world at large.

At the end of the day, Nintendo's going to have to choose between having a "comfortable" service, or one that would actually be supported.      

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi

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If there's any possible way that a predator can get in contact with a child without their parents knowing about it someone is going to be there ready and waiting to take advantage of it. Friend Codes aren't fool proof either, but it's an extra layer of protection that does make it somewhat more difficult.

But see, this is just a risk that is going to be taken when dealing with anything that involves the internet. I don't see why Nintendo taking such outlandish precautions. Gamers who want to play online with the world will go around friend codes to do so. How many websites out there are providing means to trade friend codes with people you don't know? The risk is still there, and it always will be (and there's not much of a risk, anyway. The number of cases of predictors stalking children via video games is drastically lower than on other chat functions on the internet). The friend code system right now is more of an annoyance than an actual safety precaution. As an actual safety precaution it's just too flawed.

You're looking at this from the perspective of a gamer who already knows a lot about gaming. You'd probably fall well into the lines of what is considered a hardcore gamer. You automatically assume that others already know what you know. Problem is, they don't. True there is risk in everything but the gamers Nintendo is going after aren't the ones that frequent sites like this. Most likely they'll never post their friend codes online here or on any other site. The desire and the reason simply won't be there. They'll trade with a few of their friends and be happy with that. And if a friend introduces them to someone else, they might add them. Point being, they're going to feel comfortable knowing that they can control exactly who they're playing with at all times, and the fact that they can keep everyone else out.

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Besides, Friend Codes are also for the non-gamer and people intimidated by online. They streamline the entire process. You want to play with your friend, you trade codes, enter them into your games, and away you go.

Your logic here is flawed. You imply that without friend codes, it wouldn't be easy to play online with friends, and that's just not true. With Xbox Live and even PS3, it's actually a lot easier to connect with your friends, because you don't have to worry about entering in each other's friend codes, and you can connect with stranger through the provided system. Whereas with Nintendo's friend code system, if you want to connect with people you don't know, you have to deal with the hassle of outside means provided by various websites.  The friend code system isn't streamlining the process, it's just making it harder to connect with the world at large.

At the end of the day, Nintendo's going to have to choose between having a "comfortable" service, or one that would actually be supported.

But it is simple to gamers who don't use the internet much. A number that they can trade with their friend to play with online makes a lot more sense than going online and having to search for them, and dealing with all the other extraneous features and information. Live is intimidating. Nintendo's system is clean and simple. I'm not saying it's easier for hardcore gamers to use. It just that it makes more sense to people who aren't net savvy. A little inconvenience for you now may be a boon to Nintendo later. And if comfort brings in the gamers, it will be supported.  

[Pittbboi]

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You'd probably fall well into the lines of what is considered a hardcore gamer. You automatically assume that others already know what you know. Problem is, they don't.

Trust me, I am far from a hardcore gamer. The first (and last) online game I've ever played was Starcraft, and that was about 5 years ago. I don't own a 360. I just know computer basics. My main contention with friend codes is that, in an effort to cater to a demographic that has for the most part avoided online console gaming like the plague, it's becoming more and more obvious that the gamers who enjoy online gaming and would be most receptive to it are getting the short end of the stick.

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But it is simple to gamers who don't use the internet much. A number that they can trade with their friend to play with online makes a lot more sense than going online and having to search for them, and dealing with all the other extraneous features and information.

I still fail to see how it would be easier and more comfortable to remember a double digit friend code for possibly each game per person than it would be to remember an account name that would apply for every game. The key to making a service that appeals to all people isn't limiting the options for the know-how group in order to appeal to the inexperienced; the key is providing an interface that appears simple and intuitive for those who don't know what they're doing, while still providing the "advanced" options for the people who know what they're doing and won't invite iMnOtAraPIst69 over for a game of hide the flesh puppet.

The online gaming realm has been, is now, and will continue for a long time to be gamer territory. Nintendo shouldn't short change themselves just to make the service more appealing to people who most likely won't play any game more sophisticated than Literati on yahoo! games online.  

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi
Trust me, I am far from a hardcore gamer. The first (and last) online game I've ever played was Starcraft, and that was about 5 years ago. I don't own a 360. I just know computer basics. My main contention with friend codes is that, in an effort to cater to a demographic that has for the most part avoided online console gaming like the plague, it's becoming more and more obvious that the gamers who enjoy online gaming and would be most receptive to it are getting the short end of the stick.

I don't feel online gamers are getting the short end of the stick at all. Isn't the point of online gaming to play games online? Trading friend codes may seem a bit harsh and controlling to those in the know but you yourself have already shown that there are ways around the system. You can simply go on message boards and swap codes there. How do friend codes hinder online play? You say it's more complex, but not for the market Nintendo is after. DS online seems complex, but it's online numbers DWARF Live. Why is that? 1. It's free but also 2. It's accessible. People understand it. Again, you just enter a number and boom, you're playing. That concept isn't hard to grasp at all.

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The online gaming realm has been, is now, and will continue for a long time to be gamer territory. Nintendo shouldn't short change themselves just to make the service more appealing to people who most likely won't play any game more sophisticated than Literati on yahoo! games online.

And why exactly shouldn't Nintendo try to change that? Why can't online gaming be for everyone? What you're basically saying is that online is hardcore, and always will be. That's a sad perspective. Live is not fit for new online users. It is EXTREMELY hardcore. Sony's network will most likely follow suit as well. Unless someone caters to the rest of the market, online will never grow. I don't necessarily agree with Nintendo cutting out all features with their network but I can understand why they're doing it. Besides, what's to stop 3rd parties from developing their own advanced features for their games? Nintendo has already shown that even the DS can handle most online features, including VoIP. Nintendo isn't going to stop them from doing what they want. The only "problem" anyone seems able to come up with are the friend codes. The only problem I see is that you're never going to see your grandmother on Live. You could very well see her on Nintendo's network playing Wii Sports 2 Bowling with her grandchildren on the other side of the country though.