Author Topic: Looks like Capcom still hates money.  (Read 83035 times)

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Offline Ages

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #175 on: February 15, 2007, 12:26:00 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: segagamer12
there absolutley is something necessary about staying competitive and keeping up with the times. just because we can watch movies on dvd doesnt mean we cant make movies for vhs right? thast how ludiscious your argument sounds to me.


You do realize that DVD rentals just started outpacing VHS movies just last year right?
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you n

Offline dack25

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RE: Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #176 on: February 15, 2007, 12:51:04 PM »
Meh I won't say that Capcom hates money. This is the same company who had someone say that if a game came out onto another system he would cut his head off. This is also the same company that constently makes rehashes of series year after year and has ported games to other consoles multiple times. They make some dumb decisions like Sega and to be honest I'm not too fond of them, but to say that they hate money is pretty bold.

Offline segagamer12

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #177 on: February 15, 2007, 03:22:42 PM »
So, thast RENTAL STORES MORON. The studios QUIT MAKING MOVIES FOR VHS before that happened. Renting VHS is still ecconomicaly safe because there are still going top be enough people who will go for the cheaper old movies, but putting NEW RELEASES hasnt happened for a while and will NEEVR BE ECCONOMCIAL AGAIN so your my analogy still holds.  
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Offline Ages

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #178 on: February 15, 2007, 04:01:26 PM »
Why must someone who obviously has never heard of spell check must resort to calling me names?  Actually, companies still make movies in VHS format and will continue until it isn't profitable anymore.  Also, that report was based on new releases, not just older films.  I mean, by your logic why do people even purchase DVD's anymore?  It's not a very competitive product (as it seems everyone has one) and it's definitely not keeping up with the times as Blu-Ray and HD-DVD can hold so much more information.  You're philosophy is flawed.  Just deal with it.
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you n

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #179 on: February 15, 2007, 04:17:24 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ages
Quote

Originally posted by: segagamer12
there absolutley is something necessary about staying competitive and keeping up with the times. just because we can watch movies on dvd doesnt mean we cant make movies for vhs right? thast how ludiscious your argument sounds to me.


You do realize that DVD rentals just started outpacing VHS movies just last year right?


Actually from what I've read that is wrong, back in 2003 is when DVDs started to outpace VHS.

DVD outpaces VHS

In fact DVDs have been wasting VHS for a year and a half.

DVD beating the crap out of VHS from July 2005
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Offline segagamer12

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #180 on: February 15, 2007, 04:40:44 PM »
Ages SHUT UP! Your are obviously an idiot regardless of my spelling habits or not I still PROVED YOU WRONG and all you can do is start rambling on about BR and HD, those are STILL NEW, BUT in a few years one or the other WILL replace DVD its a FACT DEAL WITH IT. Technology changes and companies HAVE to keep up to stay competitive.

Even if a FEW companies hold onto VHS, it only PROVES my point because they are the *minority* and it si THE SAME WITH 2-D, that was what I said and there is NO WAY you can argue that logically without showing facts to back it up. VHS is NOT profitable for major companies and the MAJORITY does NOT suppoort the format anymore because DVD is what is accepted NOW. HDDVD and Blu Ray are both TO NEW to matter at the moment so that still holds true. When 3D gaming was NEW it wasn't the standard and itw asn't as profitable because it wasn't the NORM and it wasn't expected to be profitbale.

Whyc an't you see that? Why do you ALWAYS have to argue even when yoru OBVIOUSLY WRONG.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #181 on: February 15, 2007, 05:35:37 PM »
I can probably count on one hand the number of titles that were 3 way ports and were still AAA titles last gen.

I know you don't like them but EA Sports alone goes over that limit.

Offline Adrock

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #182 on: February 15, 2007, 05:37:54 PM »
Seriously, dude... childish insults... on a videogame forum...

There's too much chocolate in this world to be getting this bent over videogame debates....

Offline Kairon

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RE: Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #183 on: February 15, 2007, 06:11:10 PM »
Capcom doesn't hate money so much anymore. They're practically confirmed to be localizing Ace Attorney 3!!!

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Offline Ages

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RE: Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #184 on: February 15, 2007, 06:17:29 PM »
Once again with the name calling.  I guess that's all you're good for huh Rat?  I'll admit i was off a couple years on VHS outpacing DVD, but that does not change my point about DVD and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD.  As you mentioned before companies need to be competitive and as I stated, there is no competitiveness in DVD's.  The market has chosen the victor in that sector.  There is competitiveness in the next generation of video formats, again, like I stated earlier.  You have not proved me wrong in the least.  Also you cannot compare VHS and DVD to 2D and 3D gaming.  DVD is a noticeably better way to view content just like VHS was once upon a time.  It's natural progression of sorts.  On the other hand, 2D gaming is a completely different experience than that of 3D gaming.  Companies choose to make a 2D game based on a vision they have because it provides a different experience than that of 3D.  Also, it's not that I always argue, in fact, I'm not an argusome person.  I just can't stand misinformation, and you happen to be the one to supply it.
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you n

Offline denjet78

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #185 on: February 15, 2007, 06:40:47 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Management doesn't care what employees promised, if they see money they'd sell their own grandmother. Lesson learned: Never believe a company that promises anything. I do seem to recall even Nintendo making promises they wouldn't keep (region free Wii, anyone?)


Do you honestly believe that management wasn't involved in that deal? You think that their employees got together and just decided to announce that RE was going to be exclusive to the GC last generation? OR was it management that brokered that deal. And this situation was a little more definite than the whole "region free Wii" thing that no one was even able to confirm nor deny for weeks after the original quote. I didn't believe it when I heard it anyway. But, the RE announcement had it's own event! How can you even compare the two except to try and find any supporting evidence for your perspective no matter how much you have to stretch the truth.

Quote

When the PS2 port of RE4 was announced a few short weeks before the "exclusive" game was set to debut on the GC that showed just how little respect they have for Nintendo gamers.

You mean Nintendo fanboys because a normal gamer doesn't care whether a game is exclusive.


Regular gamers care. A lot of gamers just don't know though and didn't know that RE4 was being ported to the PS2 until it actually came out. However, the outcome hurt Nintendo in the eyes of the industry. Other developers were very much privy to what happened. It's not just about the gamers, it's also about the industry as a whole. Capcom pulled a MAJOR whammy on Nintendo. If you don't think that mattered, how about you poll developers and see what they thought about it?

Quote

Besides, I have the right to hold these companies to whatever standard I want. I'm a customer and without me, they make no money. The whole purpose for their existence is to please me. They better get their act together soon though because they've got a long was to go.

You're not the only customer in the world and I doubt exclusivity to please random fanboys is profitable.


Okay, sure they can never keep all of their customers happy all of the time but what happens after you piss them all off? This was a major blow and it did piss off Nintendo gamers. What's more, how do you prove to Sony and MS gamers that the same situation isn't going to happen to them? If, actually when Capcom's big name titles on the PS3 start getting ported around you are going to start to hear a lot of bitching and whining from Sony fans. Why? Because it hurts the PS3s image for exclusive games to go multiplatform. And as someone else stated, exclusive games are VERY important in this industry. If they weren't why do Sony and MS blow massive amounts of money to gain and then maintain them? Why are both companies eating up developers left and right? Exclusive games dictate your platform. Ports are just filler.

Offline segagamer12

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #186 on: February 15, 2007, 07:12:42 PM »
you are right I am sorry.  
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #187 on: February 16, 2007, 01:34:18 AM »
I do believe that management was involved in the exclusivity deal but I don't believe management really intended to follow it very seriously, they probably planned to port it on their first chance anyway and I wouldn't be surprised if Sony paid money for making the announcement of the port early. Mikami did that big statement about cutting his head off and stuff, I don't think anyone in charge held the same oppinion.

Regular gamers care. A lot of gamers just don't know though and didn't know that RE4 was being ported to the PS2 until it actually came out. However, the outcome hurt Nintendo in the eyes of the industry. Other developers were very much privy to what happened. It's not just about the gamers, it's also about the industry as a whole. Capcom pulled a MAJOR whammy on Nintendo. If you don't think that mattered, how about you poll developers and see what they thought about it?

You said regular gamers care and went on to prove that developers do with no further mention of gamers. I still don't see why the average gamer would appreciate exclusivity.

Okay, sure they can never keep all of their customers happy all of the time but what happens after you piss them all off? This was a major blow and it did piss off Nintendo gamers. What's more, how do you prove to Sony and MS gamers that the same situation isn't going to happen to them? If, actually when Capcom's big name titles on the PS3 start getting ported around you are going to start to hear a lot of bitching and whining from Sony fans. Why? Because it hurts the PS3s image for exclusive games to go multiplatform. And as someone else stated, exclusive games are VERY important in this industry. If they weren't why do Sony and MS blow massive amounts of money to gain and then maintain them? Why are both companies eating up developers left and right? Exclusive games dictate your platform. Ports are just filler.

I doubt anyone but a fanboy cares if a game that's on a console they own is available on other consoles, too.

Offline Ages

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #188 on: February 16, 2007, 03:14:48 AM »
Uh yah...it's obvious that there was a change in the market.  I was trying to show you that you cannot compare DVD's and VHS to 2D and 3D games.  Like I said before, while VHS and DVD provide the same experience, 2D and 3D gaming provide completely different experiences.  Mario is not the same in 2D as he is in 3D.  Neither is Sonic, nor Zelda.  It's about choice of medium.  Do you think Viewtiful Joe would've been the same if it were in 3D?  Hell no.  That was the style Capcom was going for, accept it.  Oh and another thing:


Quote

Originally posted by: Nintendo World Report Forums FAQ
Don't post in ALL CAPS. All caps is considered shouting, or at least, very rude. And you're likely to get your post deleted and yourself banned if you do it more than once.

Do your best to use proper grammar and spelling. It's just annoying for us to have to try to read your shorthand and lazy typing. Take your TIME, check your spelling (write your messages in a word processor or e-mail program, if it helps), and use full sentences. If you write a five word post with little to no relevance to the topic, it's probably going to get deleted.

Show respect to your fellow forum members. We're all gamers, and there's no excuse for insults and rudeness. Just because you're "anonymous" doesn't mean that we can't find out who you are. Ask some of the folks that have not only been banned, but have had their accounts closed with their ISPs. Unless you go through the exercise of "spoofing" your IP before you post, your IP address tells us what ISP you came from, and the timestamp tells your ISP who was using that IP. Even so, we have other tools at our disposal.


It's a miracle you havent been banned again yet.  Get a handle on your anger and stop feeling like everyone is attacking you.
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you n

Offline segagamer12

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #189 on: February 16, 2007, 05:38:43 AM »
I Know 2d and 3d gaming are different, and I tend to prefer 2d, yet you fail to get the point, regardless of the *reason* the market changed when things change companies MUST adapt or lese thet fail. Nintendo nearly died because it failed to adapt, they got lucky as Pokemon came out at just the right time to keep them going.

Now I wasn't yelling so why did you quote the rules to me? I ephasised a few sentances but my pos wasnt at all yelling. I capitalise letters for ephasis not to shout. But whatever. Ill try and use itailic smroe if that will work for you, I wasn't losing my temper I just can't beleive you wouldn't get the point, in my mind it shows arogance and stupidity, not trying to call yo names but if you CANT realise VHS isnt profitable and CANT reliase that in todays market 2d fighting gaems arent profitable then I cant help you.

I know its not the exact same but the ignorant comment before my post is why I used that analogy. the point was Street Fighter sucks in 3d, DUH other games have set a standard they cant live up to. The SF series set the standard for 2d fighting, so it makes sense that in a time, regradfless of vision and all that BS that ahs nohting todo with my statemetns, but ina  time when 2D fighitng gaems just ARENT popular and DONT sell it MAKES sense to STOP making a game series in 2D and if that series DOESNT translate into 3d it MAKES sense to CANCEL that series BECAUSE it is NOT profitable. THAT was my point, so I used an analogy that WASNT perfect BUT still illustrated the POINT and you STILL refused to accept that by nitpicking the loopholes when thast WASNT necasary adn you ONLY niutpicked for the SAKE of doing so because you ALWAYS do that no matter HOW right or WRONG I may be and you NEVER get the point and ONLY want to argue.

There was NOTHING erronoues in my post but when YOUR errors were pointed out YOU ignored that and contunied to argue without even TRYING to get the point. PERIOD.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #190 on: February 16, 2007, 05:52:09 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I know you don't like them but EA Sports alone goes over that limit.


Huh? Since when are EA sports titles considered AAA? I thought gamers widely regarded them as the armpit of the gaming industry...

Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock There's too much chocolate in this world to be getting this bent over videogame debates....


I have a new quote...
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline segagamer12

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #191 on: February 16, 2007, 06:11:41 AM »
but, but I hate chocolate.  
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Offline vudu

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RE: Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #192 on: February 16, 2007, 06:37:14 AM »
Rat, calm down.  We don't want SUPER banning you again.  
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #193 on: February 16, 2007, 06:39:00 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: segagamer12
but, but I hate chocolate.


OMFG COMMUNIST!!!!
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #194 on: February 16, 2007, 07:13:31 AM »
Huh? Since when are EA sports titles considered AAA?

They are AAA in every definition of the term except yours. They rate highly, they sell VERY well, they are high priority projects for their developer (which I think is what AAA really means) and they have huge budgets. Of course they aren't AAA to people who would complain about a game being available to people who own other consoles but I don't count fanboys as sane, reasonable or people for any purpose.

Rat, calm down. We don't want SUPER banning you again.

Speak for yourself, I would welcome that.

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #195 on: February 16, 2007, 07:30:13 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k They are AAA in every definition of the term except yours.


I'm talking about games which are being built from the ground up and are sharing their development resources across three consoles.

I don't count EA's sports titles because they aren't even new games. They're roster/graphic updates being rehashed. How often does Madden see a full-blown engine update? I'd guess not since 2001.

In the case of NEW games being made multiplatform from the ground up, they typically ALWAYS suffer from glitches and quality issues due to development resources being spread so thin.

Even big name games which likely had a multi-million dollar budget (like Sonic Heroes, for example) suffer dramatically from being made for three platforms at once.

So yes, I will be FAR more likely to buy an exclusive title because it has, in my experience, a VASTLY better chance of being an all-around better game than most multiplatform releases. It has nothing to do with fanboyism. It's not wanting to get burned on my $50 investment by a crap game (which I have been in the past).
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Offline hudsonhawk

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #196 on: February 16, 2007, 09:24:54 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I'm talking about games which are being built from the ground up and are sharing their development resources across three consoles.

I don't count EA's sports titles because they aren't even new games. They're roster/graphic updates being rehashed. How often does Madden see a full-blown engine update? I'd guess not since 2001.

In the case of NEW games being made multiplatform from the ground up, they typically ALWAYS suffer from glitches and quality issues due to development resources being spread so thin.

Even big name games which likely had a multi-million dollar budget (like Sonic Heroes, for example) suffer dramatically from being made for three platforms at once.


Sorry, but, that's a terrible definition.  Whether or not games suffer due to being multi-platform is largely conjecture.

Few games are built from the ground up, using brand new, original engines anymore.  Development is largely about reuse now - and you'll see that more and more and more in order to curb rising budgets.  Look at Ubisoft in the last generation - or the current for that matter.  Splinter Cell, BG&E, POP all use the exact same 3d engine.  Even Nintendo does this - Mario Sunshine, both Zeldas, likely the majority of their 3d games use the same engine.  Both companies reuse a lot of textures and resources across products.

It would be stupid, in fact, for Madden to not reuse the same code from version to version within a generation.  It's a AAA title in every sense of the term, to the point where it's absence was a factor in a lot of people I know not buying the Dreamcast.

Quote

So yes, I will be FAR more likely to buy an exclusive title because it has, in my experience, a VASTLY better chance of being an all-around better game than most multiplatform releases. It has nothing to do with fanboyism. It's not wanting to get burned on my $50 investment by a crap game (which I have been in the past).


That's a philosophy that stems directly from you owning a console that isn't the market leader.  The vast majority of exclusive PS2 titles are shovelware.  I'd venture a guess that the formula is the exact opposite of what you're proposing - that non-exclusive titles are the ones that are of higher quality - the high investment in multi-platform development means the developer can't risk releasing a low-quality title (except in cases where the strength of the license will do the selling for them).



Offline Ages

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #197 on: February 16, 2007, 09:27:01 AM »
Rat, I quoted the rules to you because you are not following them.  The rules state that you should try to spell correctly.  The rules state that typing in all caps is yelling, regardless of what you use all caps for.  While 2D fighters might not be viable on consoles, why can't they be profitable on portables?  Just because it's not on the most powerful console, doesnt mean the franchise isn't profitable anymore.  Do you think a Marvel vs. Capcom 3 wouldn't be profitable because it would be 2D?

And another thing, I admitted I was wrong when I had made the DVD claim.  I even awknowledged it in my next post when I said "Once again with the name calling. I guess that's all you're good for huh Rat? I'll admit i was off a couple years on VHS outpacing DVD, but that does not change my point about DVD and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD."
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you n

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #198 on: February 16, 2007, 10:03:19 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: hudsonhawk Sorry, but, that's a terrible definition.  Whether or not games suffer due to being multi-platform is largely conjecture.


No, it's a quantitative certainty. It's not even a question: if you have 15 people working on a game, you will not be able to convince me that the game would not turn out better if all 15 of them were working with the same hardware and the same code instead of three teams of five all trying to adapt the code, graphics, sounds, etc. to three completely different platforms.

I accept the fact that sh*tty developers will violate this rule, but decent developers who spread their resources across three platforms undoubtedly have their games either suffer or at least never meet their TRUE potential.

Take a console like the GC, for example: a game like RE4, which was built from the ground up for it, took advantage of a plethora of graphical capabilities which most people were STUNNED that the GC even possessed. Had RE4 been developed on all consoles right off the bat, there's no way in HELL the dev team would have taken the time to explore the GC's graphical prowess to the extent that they did.

The GC had plenty of bells and whistles when it came to graphical capability, but this ability was seldom tapped into because, when a developer is making the game for two other consoles as well, it's time constraint-prohibitive to bother to write code to take advantage of them.

As for "AAA" titles, the term can easily apply to games that DON'T sell well but are still critically acclaimed, like Okami. I'm not talking about a game's selling power or dev budget, I'm talking about it being an absolutely stellar game, and those tend to come more often from exclusives than not.

Quote

That's a philosophy that stems directly from you owning a console that isn't the market leader.  The vast majority of exclusive PS2 titles are shovelware.  I'd venture a guess that the formula is the exact opposite of what you're proposing - that non-exclusive titles are the ones that are of higher quality - the high investment in multi-platform development means the developer can't risk releasing a low-quality title (except in cases where the strength of the license will do the selling for them).


I understand what you're saying, and while I do believe it to be the case that it's years of GC ownership which brought me to this conclusion, it's still advice I'd highly suggest people follow.

Yes, there's less risk developing for the market leader, but at a certain point, the market leader will have a flood of games so immensely huge that games need to rise to a certain level of quality to even be noticed at all.

Obviously, reviews are a godsend for this reason, but take a game like Sonic and the Secret Rings: if this were coming out on all three consoles on the same day, I wouldn't have it reserved right now. Since it takes specific graphical advantage of the Wii and was built around the idea of the Wiimote, I have a great deal more faith in the potential quality of the game and the reviews and impressions coming out now all indicate that I haven't been led astray by my assumptions.
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Offline segagamer12

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RE:Looks like Capcom still hates money.
« Reply #199 on: February 16, 2007, 03:00:03 PM »
Ages, I apologise, I concede, you win.


Smash_brother, I hate to tell yout is man but Madden is a *GOOD* game weather you like it or not. It is never just a roster update they change a *lot* each installment. EA takes thier sports very seriously and I respect them for that.  A lot of people bash them because they rehash code, as was pointed out *all* devs do that so that is not even a valid point.

I understand that some people just don't like sports games, ok fine you don't have to. But demeaning a games quality based on your own personaly feelings is not very fair to that game, especially if it is acclaimed, wins lots of awards, sells millions each year and has a *massive* userbase. I am not a very big football fan and in general I don't like sports, but I still recognise the quality of the EA sports games, the authenticity, the detail, the graphicaly powere behind them, the attention to detail, the realistic playing fields, the umberof extras, the number of players, the multiplayer aspects, pretty much everything that goes into a sports game.

Let me put it this way, even if *all* EA did was update the roster on all 32 NFL teams each year, lets do tha math a little. Now I suck at math so correct me if I am wrong, but there are 32 Teams in the NFL, there are 8 players on Offense and 12 I think on Defense and then there are back up players and subsitutes (not the right term I know) and the coaches and captains. Now I think on average an NFL team is made up of like 24 players total, times 36. Each players had Yards recieved, yards ran, rushing yards, points scored, turn overs, passing yards, and a few other stats but thsoe are the ones I can think of. Now they have to update *all* those stats for *all* those players every single year. Thats *still* a lot of work, and a lot of attention to detail.


Now there are also the individual players to keep track of as well as the classic players/teams to put in there. So when you seem how much really goes into just a football game you start to earn more respect for the dev teams responsibe for those games. Now I am not trying to maek an argument all i am saying is that there is a lot more involved ina Madden game then what you think.
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