Topic: I Failed to Graduate

[Ceric]

Math... The pain in my side my whole academic career.  It bit me yet again today.

First it was Calculus 2.
Now it was Matrix Algebra.

My Final went horribly it seems and I have failed the class meaning I won't be graduating.

My told me she kill me if I didn't graduate.  I don't know what I'm going to do.  I'm married and I need to work.  I love to just run-away from it all and start a new life somewhere else but I can't do that.  To many responsibilities.

[Bill Aurion]

Study harder?

[nitsu niflheim]

kill your teacher, that's teach 'em

[oohhboy]

Kill yourself before they can kill you?

That sucks man. Have you had a talk with your lecters? They aren't out to get you but the insitution is.

[matt oz]

I loved math until I took calculus.  It was very different because, in my opinion, it seems that it requires more of a common sense approach than a memorization approach.  Like, in algebra, you can just memorize how to do certain problems, how to distribute, quadratic formula, and all that other stuff.  But with calc, you need to understand the underlying theories and methods or else you don't stand a chance.

I vaguely remember an intro to matrix algebra at the end of one of my calc classes.  It seemed interesting, but it's certainly not something I would ever willingly take a course in.

If it makes you feel any better, it's going to take me 5.5 years to graduate, and that's if I stay on track until then.  An extra six months, and I could have a master's degree in that time.

Good luck.

[ThePerm]

ugh, i didnt go to a final today. It was a class on classical art and architecture, basically i would fail one class if i went to take the final, id rather fail one class then two.

[Ceric]

Yeah, I'm going to talk to the Professor but, he has a final this morning so I have to wait.  The Graduation department calling to let me know I wasn't graduating was probably the fastest thing my school has ever done.  I already knew but I was surprised that relatively the moment the grade was posted, it was posted after the work day, they were knocking...

I don't know how I'm going to tell my mom but I'm going to have to find a way.

[KDR_11k]

Does your country/university/whatever not allow retries? We can repeat an exam twice, the diploma system allowed up to three repeats if you played your cards right. Try again, that stuff isn't so hard. Make sure you write down what the prof writes, those proves can be a bitch to understand otherwise and you're not going to be able to repeat them (or more exactly, apply the methods to other problems) if you don't understand them well. I'm not sure studying is going to do a whole lot, never worked for me when the subject was math. Writing everything down in the readings and doing the exercises should prepare you. I'm a CS major so maybe my maths is a bit less demanding (but calculus 2 in the graduation semester? That's 2nd or 3rd semester for us and was even abolished for the BSc and compacted down to one reading, not sure what matrix algebra is, we've had tons of readings involving matrices) but I've been able to deal with them (3.0) with zero preparation. I'm sure with some preparation you can get better grades than me.

[Ceric]

Actually your suppose to have Calculus 2 by your sophomore year and I should have been pass Matrix Algebra my Junior but Calc 2 kept being a stinking point.  Here grading is up to the professor and the e-mail I got back from him was that there was no way I could retake it or anything to bring my grade back up to a D.

So now I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do for next semester.  Get up at 5-something in the morning to make the 2 and a half hour drive to school,  because I'll be moving to where my wife is lving no matter what or do I take it a community college that is a little closer.  I know I can't stay in Cookeville...  This is terrible..

[Ian Sane]

If you just failed math may I ask why you were ever taking Calculus 2 or Matrix Algebra in the first place?  Just seems kind of odd, that's all.  Did you just goof up the final or were you no doing well anyway?  If you just goofed the test maybe your problem is with test taking and not math itself.  I've always been good at math but sadly I've never been able to help people with math.  It seems like something you either get or you don't unfortunately.  My brother is horrible at math and basically faked his way through school.  His whole way of studying for it made no sense.  He memorized the ANSWERS to the sample questions instead of studying HOW to figure the answer out.  I'm surprised he didn't get 0% every time.  I did find though that often for any scientific course I could study better if I more or less rediscovered how the fact came about.  I didn't just learn it, I figured it out and why it is the way it is.  That's a little harder for something like biology but with math that study method makes perfect sense.  If all else fails though get a tutor.  Maybe you have a learning disability.

"I loved math until I took calculus. It was very different because, in my opinion, it seems that it requires more of a common sense approach than a memorization approach. Like, in algebra, you can just memorize how to do certain problems, how to distribute, quadratic formula, and all that other stuff. But with calc, you need to understand the underlying theories and methods or else you don't stand a chance."

I felt it was the opposite.  Algebra to me is completely logical and thus common sense was how I learned it.  Calculus to me seems arbitritary.  I know how to calculate a derivative but I don't know WHY.  To me it's just a rule and I can't even wrap my brain around how anyone could discover that in the first place.  To to me calculus was all memorization because not a lick of it made any damn sense to me.  Trigonometry was largely the same with SIN, COS and TAN.  What are those?  To me it's just a button on a calculator.  Again I have to memorize.

Algerbra always had the advantage that it had a practical purpose for our day-to-day lives.  I've never ever used calculus outside of school.

[couchmonkey]

Derivatives are useful in figuring the amount of things.  Like acceleration...or area...or...something...well, I used to understand it, but I don't anymore.

Are you trying to get a computer degree, Ceric?  I beat Matrix Algebra and Calculus a long time ago, but that was my position too - math wasn't my best subject (not my worst either) but I needed it for computers.  

[nitsu niflheim]

I use math at work.  I am a accountant. =)  I didn't go to college either. =D

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Stay off the video games and the PGC.

But yeah, dealing with immediate family pressures can interfere with school a lot.

[KDR_11k]

I know how to calculate a derivative but I don't know WHY.

Didn't the teacher prove the derivation rules in school?

Trigonometry was largely the same with SIN, COS and TAN. What are those?

Um, the components of a unit vector with the given direction or the corresponding vector with its first component equal one? If quaternions gave you a headache I could understand or if you had trouble memorizing the corrsponding formulas (e^(x/pi*i) and so on was it?)

[Kairon]

Yeah, I also thourght math was pi until I hit Calculus. Calculus is NOT math (my opinion). Calculus proofs require some crazy leaps of intuition in the same way that trigonometry or geometry proofs did, except TIMES TEN. I frigging took Calculus... the first two semesters of it, TWICE, and then I knew I wouldn't get any further and still feel sorta iffy on it even though I'm more comfortable with it now.

But man, sorry to hear you just hit a friggin' brick wall. The school itself isn't what gets you though is it, it's the changes you have to make to the rest of your life to fit it in, as well as *ulp* what the family members say...

*hides*

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Ian Sane]

"Didn't the teacher prove the derivation rules in school?"

Nope.  It was just "this is how you do it".  If he did explain it I forgot by the next class and it was never brought up again.  Hell I still got an A based on just knowing how to do it so for the purposes of passing the course I doubt the teacher really felt an explanation was necessary.  Practically the entire class got an A in that course.  Whatever method he taught with sure as hell worked.

"Um, the components of a unit vector with the given direction or the corresponding vector with its first component equal one?"

I know what every word in that sentence means but in this particular arrangement it might as well be total gibberish to me.  Maybe it's best I don't know the details since most of it just seems like a game to me anyway.

[KnowsNothing]

I get the first part but after "or" it falls apart

[Smoke39]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I felt it was the opposite.  Algebra to me is completely logical and thus common sense was how I learned it.  Calculus to me seems arbitritary.  I know how to calculate a derivative but I don't know WHY.  To me it's just a rule and I can't even wrap my brain around how anyone could discover that in the first place.  To to me calculus was all memorization because not a lick of it made any damn sense to me.  Trigonometry was largely the same with SIN, COS and TAN.  What are those?  To me it's just a button on a calculator.  Again I have to memorize.

I feel the same way.  'Cept trig.  Trig functions are just ratios of triangle sides given a fancy name.

As for proving calculus, it's still not something I can intuit.  And integration gets crazy.  There are so many stupid rules you need to memorize, and then you have to somehow know which ones to use in which order for ridiculously complex integrals.  I'm failing Calc 2, but it's required for graduation, even though it's not a prerequisite for any classes (though it's a concurrent requirement for Physics 200).

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Calculus is child's play.

Try modeling the flow of water in a river.

[BiLdItUp1]

I took quackulus last summer in a 6-week bootcamp course. It was ridiculous- rewarding when I figured things out, but very frustrating. Kinda like learning an instrument, except for all intents and purposes, a lot less useful/cool for everyday life. Swore off the thing ever more, though I've heard discrete math is harder (which I'm also gonna take this coming summer) Ceric: good luck

[ThePerm]

ugh, that is the biggest reason why i hate math classes, they want you to do the work, but they refuse to teach you WHY. There is a large group of people who have trouble getting the job done if they don't know why they are doing it, because If am not totally aware that what i am doing is useless then how do i know i am not just foolishly wasting my time? There was an interview with one of the programmer for Zelda who talked about this same problem, he is not good at math, but if he knows why he is doing something then its really easy to do. Which, is what allot of what programming is.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

That is the real problem with the traditional way math is taught (same applies to chemistry):

In the beginning, you only learn factoids and techniques. Only about year or a few semesters later in a higher-level class do you receive a concrete explanation of where the sh!t came from, and who in the real world really utilizes it.

FOCK YOU, FORBIDDEN WURD FILTER

[IceCold]

Man, Ceric.. bad news. If you take it again, make sure to do practice examples, one after the other. Also, if you can, get some one-on-one time with the TAs or professor - it's much better than lectures if you don't understand it.

I did Calculus very early (Grade 11) and he rushed through it, so I've never really liked it.

[Caliban]

Calculus was farely easy up to the 4U level (Canadian grade 12 Calculus intended for those that want to go to university).
Granted I had done (failed it actually) in Europe grade 12 Math , btw in Europe (at least in Portugal) we have only one Math class that englobes these 3 fields: Calculus, Algebra & Geometry, Data Management & Statistics.
When I got to university (Canada), it wasn't that hard, I just didn't have any motivation to study because of personal problems, but when it came to integrals oh my was I sweating but I think that nothing like solving problems wouldn't help me understand it properly, even though the teachers at York university are very unstable, they either suck in their verbal skills (Canadian education board is at fault, including the university), or they are way too hardcore just like the second Calculus teacher that gloated that he used to teach in a German university.

Ceric, I obviously don't know your mom, but since she is your mom would she not understand your position? Afterall you only have to finish Calculus. And don't take it seriously the death warning from your mom, see it as a way from your parent to ensure that you will not goof around in university.

[Hostile Creation]

I took Calculus in high school, no idea how I made it through.  I've totally forgotten all of it by now.
I took College Algebra for my core math requirement at college, and I didn't even do well with that

Good luck though, Ceric.  Hopefully things will work out.