Author Topic: Virtual Console Mondays Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love  (Read 10123 times)

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Virtual Console <strike>Mondays</strike> Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2006, 08:07:52 AM »
You know, I change my mind Nintendo is obviously doomed because it is a huge deal when a bonus feature of the Wii isn't up to people's standards. Forget the games made for Wii (or any other system) it is the downloadable classic games that matter the most, so Xbox 360 is a failure as well!
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Virtual Console <strike>Mondays</strike> Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2006, 08:14:23 AM »
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Originally posted by: Svevan
There are plenty of roadblocks with Wii - internet router issues, over-complexity of setup (both the system, Miis, internet, synching controllers, etc) problems with direct pointing, component and S-video cable availability, system availability, and Virtual Console which is a far larger mess than the people here are willing to admit. .


The Wii is not complex to set up, just follow the directions, it isn't like you are putting together a complex item. Not sure how the Miis are complex either, it is an added feature that you can either do or ignore. Probaly the only real complex thing is syncing the controllers but even that isn't too bad. Can't comment on the direct pointing, because I haven't heard many complaints about that (it works fine with me), and system availability is usually an issue with all console launches, at least Nintendo is putting a ton out to at least try to meet demand.

Virtual Console is basically a bonus feature and I don't believe it is a huge selling point of the Wii to the general public, it is more for us hardcore gamers. I also think people need to back off of Nintendo on the VC and other internet related issues because this is a completely new system, they haven't had 5+ years to perfect it like MS. Probaly the only legit concern is lack of component/s-video cables because I think they should have prepared better for that, heck the GC had them available at launch!
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Offline IceCold

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RE: Virtual Console <strike>Mondays</strike> Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2006, 07:45:49 PM »
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Its their trickle down philosophy that drives me nuts and has driven them into third place two generations in a row.
These are... classic games. You know, ones that have been released already? Are you really telling me you're willing to compare these to new Wii games?
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Offline Svevan

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RE: Virtual Console <strike>Mondays</strike> Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2006, 07:52:58 PM »
Please don't misrepresent or misunderstand me. I am in no way saying that Wii stands or falls on the Virtual Console's success. I am only saying that Virtual Console as a Wii selling point stands or falls on its own success, and right now it is successful to a small few. There are people who haven't downloaded a VC game yet - why? Because the games they want aren't heiffing available, but they will be downloaded in Japan in a week.

Some casual gamers (or even non-gamers) loved certain games for NES or SNES and they want only to download what they are familiar with. These games are not available because according to Nintendo, they will only release games that have viability in our marketplace. Idiotic! You MAKE these games desirable by putting them out there! For 3 or 4 bucks I'll try ANYTHING on the NES or SNES if someone tells me it's good (5-8 is a bit much, and I think this is part of Nintendo's problem: high prices and profit margin equals lower sales numbers).

I really can't comment on the technical limitations of making these games available but based on Nintendo's track record of releasing games in EXACTLY the same way, I must assume that their decision is based on marketing decisions and not server crap. They have 15 games sitting there that we COULD be downloading and playing. And so what if I don't download them all right away? I will slowly work through what I want to if there are 50 available at one time. More games will equal more sales. I will buy Gunstar Heroes, SMB, Chip N Dale, etc the moment they come out. If they ALL come out, then I'll get two or three at a time and get the others later - nothing is stopping the hardcore from buying them all (except the limited amount of space on the Wii Menu) and variety will only encourage the casual or non-gamer to try the one game they really love. By only releasing "the classics" or as the Wii Shop Channel says, "the masterpieces," they only encourage the hardcore gamers to sit and wait for the stuff they like.

You may say that this is the point - more suspense ergo more purchases. Sorry, no - waiting all weekend for Super Star Soldier, Golden Axe, and Ecco did not make me buy any of them, and if you read our forums or anyone else's forums you'll see tons of people saying "I'll skip it this week." These people were going to skip these games anyways, and Nintendo didn't do anything to make them more viable. They're just pissing us off, saying "We'll give you what we think you want and only when we think you need it." Nintendo could be SELLING us games by doing monthly updates of 50 games or more, or at the very least sticking to a ten game a week system. Less is not more - it also makes the VC look less desirable to those considering Wii. Sure you can play old games on this console, but most of them aren't available yet. I may not see Yoshi's Island until March, and then Donkey Kong 64 in July, Majora's Mask in November. We may NEVER see awesome yet unnoticed N64 games like Mischief Makers, Buck Bumble, Rocket: Robot on Wheels, Glover, Mission: Impossible, Castlevania, or the flippin' Goemon games. Is NES Tennis really selling the Wii to anybody?

Is Virtual Console supposed to be an arcade that has a limited number of games at any one time, or a museum that is filled with all history and we can slowly work our way through? Nintendo can make money by putting more games out there and lowering the price, because it will appeal to both the hardcore and the casual gamer. Instead of feeling like a kid in a candy store I feel like a kid whose only system is the N64 - gotta wait till next month for another good game.  
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Virtual Console <strike>Mondays</strike> Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2006, 04:50:16 AM »
"5-8 is a bit much, and I think this is part of Nintendo's problem: high prices and profit margin equals lower sales numbers"

That has always been a Nintendo problem.  They would rather have one sale at $100 than 100 sales at $10.

Offline Pale

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RE: Virtual Console <strike>Mondays</strike> Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2006, 05:21:04 AM »
Let's do some business math for sake of argument (and because Ian's example is way to extreme).  at $5, if Nintendo sold say, 100,000 downloads of the original Mario Bros, that would be $500,000 dollars in revenue right?  Now, if they were $3 dollars, that would be $300,000 dollars in revenue.  That's $200,000 dollars difference right?  Now, 200,000 / 3 is 66,666.

Do you think a $2 price decrease would cause an addition 66,666 people to download the game?  That is where the argument lies.  I'm inclined to say that the price decrease wouldn't cause a sales increase of that magnitude, but that's just me.  I'm not saying I'm happy with the current price, just trying to shed some light on Nintendo's angle.  I definitely don't think they are dumb for charging as much as they are.  There are much smarter economists and marketers than ourselves who are looking at this data along with hard statistical evidence before these decisions are made.  I'm inclined to believe that they made the best financial decision for themselves.
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Offline Pale

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RE: Virtual Console <strike>Mondays</strike> Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2006, 05:29:01 AM »
Also, as another point of argument FOR the slow release of games...

I'm not saying I don't wish all the games were available, because I do, but lets think about this.  How does Nintendo stand to make the most money off of the virtual console?  Well, I would guess that they want to put the desire in people to collect them all (or at least all the 'good' ones).  Now, in order for people to have this collecting mentality, it has to be feasible.  If the Wii Shop was flooded with thousands of games out of the gate, people would be overwhelmed.  They would perceive the overall price as even more expensive, as the overall price to own them all would be absolutely insane!  This would make them immediately think that it is hopeless, and they may never go back to the shop again.

Now this is all consumer behavior mumbo jumbo, but there is a lot of truth to it.  There has got to be some people out there that have downloaded every VC game that is available thus far.  If there were 1000s of titles available, do you think they would have downloaded as many?  Maybe.  Do you think they would have downloaded that same set?  Probably not.

Nintendo wants to make money.  Every company does.  It's the consumers job to decide whether or not they are crossing the line of value.  If you don't think it is a value, don't download the games.  That action, on a great enough scale, will cause all those marketers and economists to do their math over again.  
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Virtual Console <strike>Mondays</strike> Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2006, 05:38:51 AM »
I do think a lower price would increase sales but there is only a limited pool of potential buyers and a limited pool of games that can be easily "drafted" for the VC and there's a limit to the speed a buyer can "consume" (i.e. play until he gets bored) a game. At the higher price they might make more money overall since the buyers have a limit to how many games they'll buy over the life of the system. They also have to release the games slowly otherwise everyone will jump at the classics and not want the "lesser" games anymore. Games like Altered Beast wouldn't sell worth crap if you could pick from the greatest titles for all supported systems right away. They're trying to get the maximum returns from every title they can put on the VC.

Offline vudu

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RE:Virtual Console <strike>Mondays</strike> Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2006, 06:00:14 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
That has always been a Nintendo problem.  They would rather have one sale at $100 than 100 sales at $10.
If the sale cost Nintendo $9.10 then that makes perfect sense.

$100 - $9.10 = $90.90 profit
$10 - $9.10 = $0.90 profit/sale x 100 sales = $90 profit

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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Virtual Console <strike>Mondays</strike> Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2006, 06:52:52 AM »
"Do you think a $2 price decrease would cause an addition 66,666 people to download the game? That is where the argument lies."

Probably not so much for really major titles like Super Mario Bros but I could see it for weaker titles like Pinball or Soccer.  I think a lower price helps the "for the hell of it" factor.  A major title may sell the same no matter what but with the price ranges as they are I think purchases are a decision right now instead of an impulse.  Also a lower price will make people consider rebuying games they already own for the convenience of having everything in one place.  If the price is too high I think a fair bit of people are going to save their money more for games they don't have yet.

At the very least the current prices should not be the absolute lowest prices.  Lousy games that don't sell should have lower prices.  Right now this seems too much like Nintendo charging $30 for Player's Choice games instead of the expected $20 (which they thankfully seemed to have stopped doing).  It's just higher than expected so people are less enthusiastic.  We're constantly complaining about the VC here on the forum.  The lousy selection probably wouldn't get as much flack if the prices were lower.  "So we don't have that great of NES games.  Who cares?  They're only a buck."  We don't have that.  We've got a lousy selection AND prices higher than we expected.

As a longtime fan to me it just seems like Nintendo trying to get every last penny out of me yet again.  It is so rare that I don't think they're trying to price gouge me.  The Wii is supposed to introduce a lot of new people into gaming and thus introduce them to Nintendo.  Is "Uncle Scrooge" Nintendo really who Nintendo wants to introduce to them?  Here is a chance to get rid of the greedy jerk image.

Offline Ceric

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RE: Virtual Console <strike>Mondays</strike> Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2006, 07:06:46 AM »
You know I think we would be having this debate less if every Wiipoint was ten cents instead of a penny.  Meaning the VC prices would be 100, 80, and 50 Points.  It's all perception.  Though I do think the flow should be quicker.
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Virtual Console <strike>Mondays</strike> Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2006, 10:21:33 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The Wii is supposed to introduce a lot of new people into gaming and thus introduce them to Nintendo.  Is "Uncle Scrooge" Nintendo really who Nintendo wants to introduce to them?  Here is a chance to get rid of the greedy jerk image.


The new people who play the Wii aren't going to feast on the VC. Non gamers and Casual gamers have a very low tie-in ratio, and thus are even less likely to spring for ultra hardcore oldschool games that only hardcore gamers will buy willy nilly. And if they do buy VC games, it'll likely be old gasmes they remember playing that they can already vouch for in terms of quality and thus justify the price.

Non-gamers and casual gamers won't be seeing the "uncle scrooge" you see Ian, they'll be seeing the free pack-in of Wii Sports, they'll be seeing the great deal on Wii Play, and they'll be seeing the lower game prices ($30 games at launch! Wow!) compared to the X360 and PS3.

Non-gamers and casual gamers, because of their preferences and tastes, will NOT complain about the same thing you will Ian.

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Offline Nephilim

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RE:Virtual Console <strike>Mondays</strike> Tuesdays: Sega Brings Some Love
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2006, 04:07:06 PM »
gunstar has just been rated in australia for VC, so expect it in the next few months
as has super castlevania 4,  contra 3 (well super probotector) and street fighter 2

u can stop complaining now