Author Topic: Official Sales Thread (Read 3930565 times)

BlkPaladin · « **Reply #550 on:** February 04, 2007, 01:21:30 PM »

Depends on what type of 3.0Ghz system it is. Now the clock speed doesn't mean much.

zakkiel · « **Reply #551 on:** February 04, 2007, 02:45:10 PM »

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It'll be interesting to see how long updates to World of Warcraft will hold out from moving to DX10.

Indefinitely. Blizzard is notorious for being graphically conservative. It's not exactly pushing the graphical limits with WoW in DX 9.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #552 on:** February 04, 2007, 02:54:26 PM »

Guess what? I actually like Windows and MS's other software applications. Yes they may be buggy at first but they are also highly complex products which are tough to get everything ironed out until the consumer gets it in their hands. Though I have been pleased by MS's response to getting patches out when problems have been discovered. I know the popular thing is to hate companies like MS or Walmart, but personally I've have mostly good experiences with MS and their products. With that said, I'm anxiously awaiting the day I get Vista as well, I've been pleased with most of MSs operating systems.

Maverick · « **Reply #553 on:** February 04, 2007, 04:05:57 PM »

So far all I've noticed from Vista is that it's much prettier than XP and only runs half the games. Of course I don't have the final build so hopefully they've ironed the game thing out by now.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #554 on:** February 04, 2007, 05:55:49 PM »

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Originally posted by: Maverick
So far all I've noticed from Vista is that it's much prettier than XP and only runs half the games. Of course I don't have the final build so hopefully they've ironed the game thing out by now.

Well hopefully by the time I get ahold of it, most of the bugs will be ironed out since my school will not be getting it until may (for 10$ too!). The main complaint I've heard is that there are quite a few programs and drivers that don't work with it because of the 64 bit architecture, but I blame that more on the individual developers than MS, they should have gotten things ready in time for Vista's launch.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #555 on:** February 04, 2007, 05:59:09 PM »

Phoenix: Yes but look at e.g. Internet Explorer, that thing didn't get any significant improvements between the death of Netscape and the rise of Firefox to a position where it could damage the MS hegemony. One problem with MS is that they don't properly design their products to make a failure affect as little as possible, they interlock their programs so they can claim in court that IE is a necessary part of the OS. They haven't allowed running as LPU without issues until Vista FFS! Unix had that in place for decades. They haven't even tried adding security shutters into the system, instead making it so vulnerable that once you're inside the system you got it as a whole.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #556 on:** February 04, 2007, 07:46:55 PM »

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Phoenix: Yes but look at e.g. Internet Explorer, that thing didn't get any significant improvements between the death of Netscape and the rise of Firefox to a position where it could damage the MS hegemony. One problem with MS is that they don't properly design their products to make a failure affect as little as possible, they interlock their programs so they can claim in court that IE is a necessary part of the OS. They haven't allowed running as LPU without issues until Vista FFS! Unix had that in place for decades. They haven't even tried adding security shutters into the system, instead making it so vulnerable that once you're inside the system you got it as a whole.

Well I do agree, I don't care much for IE, that is the one product I've never been too happy with (I use firefox 90% of the time). Maybe another reason why I don't have problems that were mentioned is that I do not use Windows or other programs for highly complex tasks, but more for basic, home use (Well maybe more than basic, but I don't program or anything). As it stands now I have had no security problems. So I guess I'm looking at things from a basic consumer's perspective and I've been pleased with most of MS's applications and Operating Systems.

son of lucas · « **Reply #557 on:** February 04, 2007, 08:45:42 PM »

We really should give up this line of Microsoft bashing. No one can remain dominant in the gaming industry forever if they make poor business decisions. Just ask Nintendo and Sony.

If in fifteen years Microsoft is king and they start screwing us, someone will step up and steal their crown.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #558 on:** February 04, 2007, 10:23:50 PM »

If in fifteen years Microsoft is king and they start screwing us, someone will step up and steal their crown.

Not with Microsoft, they know how to make sure their customers and developers have no choice but to stay with them.

son of lucas · « **Reply #559 on:** February 04, 2007, 10:46:40 PM »

How? This isn't lime the computer market where Windows basically made computers mainstream and set Microsoft as the default industry standard for decades.

Game consoles are a different breed. Each one is radically different and each generation results in a restructuring of marketshare.

oohhboy · « **Reply #560 on:** February 05, 2007, 12:06:02 AM »

You forget the cost of entry into a market. Sure every 5 years or so there is an opening where new players can get into the market, but it requires massive amount of capital and investor patience. Mircosoft has only managed to sustain it's losses due to the fact it hold a massive monoploy else where to feed money into it.

If Mircosoft was allowed to monoploize the gaming market they would quickly lock it down. They would start locking technology left and right. Buyout potential competitors. Sue other companies out of existance, stave others. Start jacking up the prices for everybody, you, me, devs. Start making thing imcompatable with older version just so you be forced to buy the new version just because they want you to, not because it is needed. Example DX10.

We might not like it, but by that time we will have no choice. It would be too late. I don't want to be in a future where all resturants are Tarco Bells.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #561 on:** February 05, 2007, 12:20:27 AM »

How? This isn't lime the computer market where Windows basically made computers mainstream and set Microsoft as the default industry standard for decades.

Consoles aren't that much different from PCs. MS will make it so you'd have to rebuy loads of stuff to go elsewhere but only buy a small upgrade to stay with MS.

son of lucas · « **Reply #562 on:** February 05, 2007, 01:56:52 AM »

Consoles are different from operating systems (PC competition is very diversified and competitive).

What evidence exists that console domination can exist permanently? Nintendo tried and lost marketshare for 3 consecutive generations. With Microsoft's inability to control Japan and Nintendo's continued dominance in handheld market it's doubtful they'll ever approach the market dominance Nintendo had in the late 80s.

This fear of Microsoft destroying the gaming industry by adopting tactics from their OS branch is little more than paranoia.

Spikage · « **Reply #563 on:** February 05, 2007, 02:13:26 AM »

i have looked, and looked, and looked, and looked, and looked, and looked, and looked, and looked, and looked, and looked, and looked, but i can't find a wii. help!

oohhboy · « **Reply #564 on:** February 05, 2007, 03:13:56 AM »

The funny thing is that it has only being as of late that a perpetual monoploy maybe achivable. Why? Grapahics and processing power. They are both reaching towards a point that may only be 1 to 2 generations time where advances in these areas will become meaningless to the human eye and ability of the programmer to use that extra CPU power to do something meaningful other than to add more charaters on screen.

At that point what would be the point to releasing a new console? most people won't/can't tell the difference if something was 10 times more powerful than before. What advantage then could a new competitor use with it's product to differenate itself and break into the market? Who would come up with the capital needed to overcome a monoploy?

Personally, what I really look forward to are advances in A.I. That is somthing requires true creativity. A.Is today are still dumb as bricks and like the sun rising everyday, predictable. Unfortunatly, right now most devs are using online as thier A.I.

zakkiel · « **Reply #565 on:** February 05, 2007, 03:53:14 AM »

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The funny thing is that it has only being as of late that a perpetual monoploy maybe achivable. Why? Grapahics and processing power. They are both reaching towards a point that may only be 1 to 2 generations time where advances in these areas will become meaningless to the human eye and ability of the programmer to use that extra CPU power to do something meaningful other than to add more charaters on screen.

I'm looking out my window right now. There are some trees out there. They're the usual trees - brown, branches ending in twigs, pretty bushy. No leaves of course, because it's winter. And I'm thinking how hopelessly beyond the best of present graphics technology rendering this scene would be, without worrying about soft shadows or making the trees sway realistically in the breeze or any of the other scene elements.

People who think we're closing in on photorealism really should spend more time looking at the real world. Games now are visually impressive compared to other games; hold them up against the world and they don't look so good.

son of lucas · « **Reply #566 on:** February 05, 2007, 03:56:44 AM »

Please. Graphics have a long way to go before new technology becomes meaningless. The length between generations might widen a few years, but photorealism with unlimited FX are a long time off.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #567 on:** February 05, 2007, 04:54:21 AM »

Photorealism is one thing, discernable differences between two tech iterations is another.

zakkiel · « **Reply #568 on:** February 05, 2007, 12:30:03 PM »

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Photorealism is one thing, discernable differences between two tech iterations is another.

Presumably, iterations would be spaced for differences to be noticeable.

Kairon · « **Reply #569 on:** February 05, 2007, 07:26:46 PM »

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Originally posted by: oohhboy
I don't want to be in a future where all resturants are Tarco Bells.

Neither does John Spartan.

Quote
Originally posted by: oohhboy
Personally, what I really look forward to are advances in A.I. That is somthing requires true creativity. A.Is today are still dumb as bricks and like the sun rising everyday, predictable. Unfortunatly, right now most devs are using online as thier A.I.

Blame John O' Connor.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

UltimatePartyBear · « **Reply #570 on:** February 06, 2007, 03:40:02 AM »

Wikipedia lists five notable John O'Connors. Only one of them was alive recently enough to have had an effect on modern computing, and he was a cardinal, so that's unlikely. Of course, it's possible that I know exactly what you're referencing, but can't let the error pass without a little heckling.

Ceric · « **Reply #571 on:** February 06, 2007, 05:54:18 AM »

I stopped on the top of page 28.

I will say this. Smash every time you say something about Microsoft the more and more I'm convinced that you are a bigot in regards to that topic.
Also everything you mentioned that Microsoft does Apple did and is doing. The difference is they have a core Zealot following. Also on that topic why can't I get OSX for PC? It's now for the most part the same platform.

I was wondering why I just read the DS sales thread.

Another note: Even Microsoft is releasing most of its games where they will run on DirectX9 but will look much better with 10.

From actual experience Vista runs just as well as XP on a below spec, everything but harddrive space, 6 year old machine. Another article that Pro linked says that it runs better on an iMac then OSX and it was a pretty Apple bias site. Weird... Where is 10.5 anyways?

So I actually finished it.

As a developer and an Administrator I can't wait for Vista to be the MS OS of choice. It makes my life a little more manageable. Same goes for OS X 10.5, I'll be happy when it is released because I have some support issues it will resolve and I hear there are some new things programming wise but, I'm not a big OS X developer anymore at all. Linux, well I'm sort of out of the loop there right now but I like to get back in eventually. (I have to get the money for a new machine first unfortunately.)

Back on topic is there still shortages everywhere I haven't heard otherwise yet.

vudu · « **Reply #572 on:** February 06, 2007, 06:32:50 AM »

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Originally posted by: PartyBear
Wikipedia lists five notable John O'Connors. Only one of them was alive recently enough to have had an effect on modern computing, and he was a cardinal, so that's unlikely. Of course, it's possible that I know exactly what you're referencing, but can't let the error pass without a little heckling.

I think he was referring to John Connor from the Terminator series.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #573 on:** February 06, 2007, 07:10:27 AM »

Microsoft can never truly dominate the console market like they do with PCs because of a couple key points.

1. Consoles are proprietary so there is no real roadblock from someone else releasing a console. Even if MS had the only console around they won't have a real standard as long as they demand licencing fees. To be a true standard companies other than MS would be able to make Xboxes and like PCs (or the Atari 2600) anyone could make a game for it.

2. Gaming is purely entertainment and you can't have a true monopoly in anything that is non-essential. PC's are essential. I need one for my job. I needed one for my schooling. I use my home computer for all sorts of practical purposes and not having it would make my life a sh!tload harder. It's a tool. A game console is just for fun. I don't NEED a game console. If MS had the only game console around and I didn't like games for it I wouldn't own it and it wouldn't be a problem for me not to own it because it wouldn't entertain me anyway. Now it would suck if no good games were being made but there would be no reason that someone couldn't start making good games and if MS sucked too much no one would buy their console because they don't have to.

The only problem is if MS dominates and you don't like what they're offering but everyone else does. Then you're kind of f*cked because few besides you dislike what is being offered. That is very unfortunate but at least MS making gaming suck for everyone and screwing over everyone can't happen.

Sony seemed to have everything under their thumb and then they priced the PS3 at $600 and overnight they've become a joke. You can only get away with so much in the entertainment industry.

Kairon · « **Reply #574 on:** February 06, 2007, 07:21:54 AM »

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Originally posted by: vudu
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
Wikipedia lists five notable John O'Connors. Only one of them was alive recently enough to have had an effect on modern computing, and he was a cardinal, so that's unlikely. Of course, it's possible that I know exactly what you're referencing, but can't let the error pass without a little heckling.
I think he was referring to John Connor from the Terminator series.

BLARGH! - 50 DKP! NERD DOWN! NERD DOWN!

Now I have to rewatch both Terminator movies in my collection to wash the stink of failure off... /cry

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

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Author Topic: Official Sales Thread (Read 3930565 times)