Topic: OMG, the Nintendo Wii is doomed...

[NWR_pap64]

NOTE: Unless you didn't noticed, the title is sarcasm...

Joystiq just posted a news story about a BBC reporter, a "non gamer" who got to try out the Wii. Turns out she wasn't impressed by Wii sports and Wario ware, but was surprisingly impressed by Zelda.

Here is the full link:

Non gamers isn't attracted by non games- LOVES Zelda, though

What I find surprising is that she wasn't able to get into the games, when everybody else could.

I also find surprising that she was impressed by Zelda, a hardcore game. As someone at Joystiq pointed out, she was more impressed by the game itself than the controls, making you wonder if she was even interested in the system at all, or didn't put the effort into playing it. After all, she calls herself a "game phobe".

I doubt the impressions of ONE reporter will affect the overall performance of the Wii. Like it has been stated more than once, the first gen games will feel like demos and it will be a while till a game is released that TRULY puts the system on the map, like the DS.

Opinions?

[mantidor]

As we say around here "no one is a gold coin to be liked by everyone" and that applies to almost anything. Of course there will be people who will not get it, and there will be more than one.

[NWR_pap64]

Once again, this reminds of when the DS was released. When people tried it out, some did not get it and thus deemed the handheld as just a sparkling innovation. I know a friend who was SEVERELY un-impressed with the DS at first because of the lack of good games, but now loves the thing because of the games released after launch.

It's a matter of releasing the right game, the killer APPs. So far the Wii has a much bigger advantage over the DS (with Zelda being the killer APP, while games like Red Steel, Rayman, Monkey Ball and Trauma could end up being the must own games of the season), but even then the Wii needs more games that sells the Wii point across and impresses people like Mrs. Doubty pants here :p .  

[Ian Sane]

"I also find surprising that she was impressed by Zelda, a hardcore game."

Since it's Zelda I find it less surprising.  Zelda is in my mind the best videogame series there is.  It makes sense for someone to like the best gaming has to offer.  It's like someone not familiar with rock music getting into Led Zeppelin.

Maybe that's Nintendo's plan: use the Wii to get people to try Zelda.  My God!  That's brilliant!

[Requiem]

That is actually....pretty brilliant.

I mean....it is Nintendo's goal to turn previous non-gamers into gamers right? What better game than the game of all games?

[Pittbboi]

I'm really not all that surprised. After playing these games, I hope Nintendo realizes the difference between making a game everyone can get into with varying degrees of difficulty, and games that Playskool would consider too simple.

[Ceric]

I know plenty of people I consider Non-Gamers who own PS2's for Kingdom of Hearts.  I would not be surprised in the least if they only reason someone who is a non-gamer didn't like Zelda was on principle more then actual time played.

[JonLeung]

I think some non-gamers would like epic games, but they're probably intimidated by the fact that they would probably have, what appears to them as, "complicated" controls.

Making the controls simpler, more natural or intuitive, or, at the very least, new and interesting enough to at least make them want to try it out, will cause people to be more willing to give the game a shot.  And if they get it and like it, then everything else follows.

I would've bought the next Nintendo console even without new controls because I feel that Nintendo makes good games that you can't find anywhere else.  So all it might take is an inital "hook" for a non-gamer to understand (or take the time to try to understand) a game, then they may be more willing to become gamers because after they overcome the initial control-phobia, then everything we Nintendo fans have enjoyed they'll finally feel for themselves.

I can see how some people might find WarioWare: Smooth moves and even WiiSports dull after a while.  They're certainly fun, and there's nothing wrong with that, but they're not "meaty", and some people really want an experience that involves a narrative.

[Ian Sane]

All this non-gamer stuff is starting to make a whole lot more sense with Zelda as an example instead of stuff like WiiSports.  I don't have a problem with more people liking Zelda.  Non-games making games I'm not interested popular doesn't do me a lot of good but more people liking Zelda, epic gamer-game Zelda, is fine.  Then at least you're getting non-gamers interested in gaming instead of "non-gaming".

Actually just thinking about explaining the controls of Ocarina of Time to someone who doesn't play games gives me a headache.  Still I personally would like to use the traditional controller if possible.  I can handle the "complexity" of the buttons and such and feel that provides me with better control.  Digital buttons are more precise than gestures.  But then I design web pages purely in code because I don't like the lack of control that those MS editor things that soccer moms use provide.

If Nintendo can continue to make epic games with depth, complexity and challenge that can be played in whatever control scheme the user feels better suits their needs then they could keep their "traditional" fanbase happy while bringing in non-gamers as well.  Plus the remote provides new ideas that can be used for games specifically designed for the remote that both groups can enjoy.  For "gesture games" the traditional controller should be an option and for stuff that actually truly requires the remote, the remote is used.

Sadly this whole idea seems like a happy accident and Nintendo's actual plan is shallow non-games for non-gamers.  It also relies on the idea of non-gamers actually being intimidated by complex controllers which I've never really agreed with.  I think for some people the controller is a hurdle but many just don't like the basis elements of gaming period.

But anyway, Nintendo forget about WiiSports and use the uniqueness of the remote to get more people playing "real" games.  This is it.  This is the solution.

[Ceric]

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But then I design web pages purely in code because I don't like the lack of control that those MS editor things that soccer moms use provide.

Lol. I do that too.  It annoys me to use the form designer in Visual Studio but wit VB and C# you almost have to.  They have no good layout managers.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Well we all know that one person's opinion is be all, end all. So people please shut up about this being an example of the "non-gamer" strategy not working and wait until more "non-gamers" get to play it, I guarantee you my mom who is a non-gamer would hate Zeda but will love Wisports.

[31 Flavas]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane

Non-games making games I'm not interested popular doesn't do me a lot of good but more people liking Zelda, epic gamer-game Zelda, is fine.  Then at least you're getting non-gamers interested in gaming instead of "non-gaming".

Ian, there are going to be gamers who will only like "non-games," by and large, the new gamers that Nintendo wants to court. Some of them, sure, will probably get interested in traditional "gaming" through their exposure to gaming from the "non-games," but if they just aren't interested in the escapism that traditional games so aptly provides, you're going to have to accpet that. And conversely accpet that games you aren't interested in are going to be produced, i.e. "non-games".

I think it's abundantly clear that you don't want to have anything to do with these gamers, but just friends of yours that like games you don't like, you're going to have to accept them and their "non-games" or be ostracized by the rest of the gaming community. Not that you havn't already achieved that, by and large, with existing gamers posting here.

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Actually just thinking about explaining the controls of Ocarina of Time to someone who doesn't play games gives me a headache.  Still I personally would like to use the traditional controller if possible.  I can handle the "complexity" of the buttons and such and feel that provides me with better control.  Digital buttons are more precise than gestures.  But then I design web pages purely in code because I don't like the lack of control that those MS editor things that soccer moms use provide.

And there will be plently of "complexity" between the Wii-remote and Nuncuck, Z:TP for Wii, being the perfect example, but you're just choosing to dismiss it and ignore it. As Morpheus from the Matrix would say.... "Free your mind!"

If you've just *got* to have a "traditional" controller and console, you've got two great alternatives one from Sony and one from Microsoft.  

[Smoke39]

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Originally posted by: 31 Flavas
As Neo from the Matrix would say.... "Free your mind!"

That was Morpheus, dude.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: 31 Flavas

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane

Non-games making games I'm not interested popular doesn't do me a lot of good but more people liking Zelda, epic gamer-game Zelda, is fine.  Then at least you're getting non-gamers interested in gaming instead of "non-gaming".

Ian, there are going to be gamers who will only like "non-games," by and large, the new gamers that Nintendo wants to court. Some of them, sure, will probably get interested in traditional "gaming" through their exposure to gaming from the "non-games," but if they just aren't interested in the escapism that traditional games so aptly provides, you're going to have to accpet that. And conversely accpet that games you aren't interested in are going to be produced, i.e. "non-games".

I think it's abundantly clear that you don't want to have anything to do with these gamers, but just friends of yours that like games you don't like, you're going to have to accept them and their "non-games" or be ostracized by the rest of the gaming community. Not that you havn't already achieved that, by and large, with existing gamers posting here.

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Actually just thinking about explaining the controls of Ocarina of Time to someone who doesn't play games gives me a headache.  Still I personally would like to use the traditional controller if possible.  I can handle the "complexity" of the buttons and such and feel that provides me with better control.  Digital buttons are more precise than gestures.  But then I design web pages purely in code because I don't like the lack of control that those MS editor things that soccer moms use provide.

And there will be plently of "complexity" between the Wii-remote and Nuncuck, Z:TP for Wii, being the perfect example, but you're just choosing to dismiss it and ignore it. As Neo from the Matrix would say.... "Free your mind!"

If you've just *got* to have a "traditional" controller and console, you've got two great alternatives one from Sony and one from Microsoft.

You know what? I actually enjoy non-games, so take that and smoke it . Nintendogs was fun while it lasted, animal crossing was amazing, Brain Age series is great (suduku being the best), and I can't wait to play Wiisports with my family. I don't see why we must act like non-games aren't worthwhile to play, because there are some great experiences out there for non-games. Do I prefer to a play a Mario Galaxy or Zelda TP? Most definately, by a mile, but non-games have their place as well for times where I am relaxing or have a limited amount to play.

[NWR_pap64]

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Originally posted by: VGrevolution

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Originally posted by: 31 Flavas

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane

Non-games making games I'm not interested popular doesn't do me a lot of good but more people liking Zelda, epic gamer-game Zelda, is fine.  Then at least you're getting non-gamers interested in gaming instead of "non-gaming".

Ian, there are going to be gamers who will only like "non-games," by and large, the new gamers that Nintendo wants to court. Some of them, sure, will probably get interested in traditional "gaming" through their exposure to gaming from the "non-games," but if they just aren't interested in the escapism that traditional games so aptly provides, you're going to have to accpet that. And conversely accpet that games you aren't interested in are going to be produced, i.e. "non-games".

I think it's abundantly clear that you don't want to have anything to do with these gamers, but just friends of yours that like games you don't like, you're going to have to accept them and their "non-games" or be ostracized by the rest of the gaming community. Not that you havn't already achieved that, by and large, with existing gamers posting here.

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Actually just thinking about explaining the controls of Ocarina of Time to someone who doesn't play games gives me a headache.  Still I personally would like to use the traditional controller if possible.  I can handle the "complexity" of the buttons and such and feel that provides me with better control.  Digital buttons are more precise than gestures.  But then I design web pages purely in code because I don't like the lack of control that those MS editor things that soccer moms use provide.

And there will be plently of "complexity" between the Wii-remote and Nuncuck, Z:TP for Wii, being the perfect example, but you're just choosing to dismiss it and ignore it. As Neo from the Matrix would say.... "Free your mind!"

If you've just *got* to have a "traditional" controller and console, you've got two great alternatives one from Sony and one from Microsoft.

You know what? I actually enjoy non-games, so take that and smoke it . Nintendogs was fun while it lasted, animal crossing was amazing, Brain Age series is great (suduku being the best), and I can't wait to play Wiisports with my family. I don't see why we must act like non-games aren't worthwhile to play, because there are some great experiences out there for non-games. Do I prefer to a play a Mario Galaxy or Zelda TP? Most definately, by a mile, but non-games have their place as well for times where I am relaxing or have a limited amount to play.

Not to mention that it was the non games that turned the Ds from a successful sparkling innovation to a worldwide gaming phenomenon.

Games like Wario ware touched, Kirby, Mario Kart and such helped, but it was games like Animal Crossing, Nintendogs and Brain age that turned the DS into a system that EVERYONE can enjoy. And it was because of games like these that New Super Mario Bros., Final Fantasy III, Pokemon Diamond and Pearl and many were able to become HUGE system sellers.

It's obvious that Nintendo wants to do the same thing with the Wii, but time will tell if lighting will hit the same place twice. But even if you don't enjoy the non games it's VERY hard to argue that they have been successful.

Oh and just so you know, VGrevolution, I didn't post it to say that this was proof that Nintendo's strategy is destined to fail. I just found surprising that the lady couldn't not get into the easy control and fell in love with Zelda instead.

Also, for every 5 people that are not convinced by the Wii, there are 5 or more that do, so the comments of one probably disgruntled woman does not determine the outcome of the whole system.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Pap those comments were not directed at you, I actually found it pretty neat. I was mainly referring to some of the other posters that are using it as an example that Nintendo's non-gamer strategy is a joke and doesn't hold any water based upon that one woman.

[NWR_pap64]

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Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Pap those comments were not directed at you, I actually found it pretty neat. I was mainly referring to some of the other posters that are using it as an example that Nintendo's non-gamer strategy is a joke and doesn't hold any water based upon that one woman.

Just wanted to make myself clear, since this is the second "negative impressions" post I have made about the Wii (the first being about Matt stating that Wiisports has issues).

[31 Flavas]

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Originally posted by: VGrevolution

You know what? I actually enjoy non-games, so take that and smoke it

Which, of course, is the other situation. There are "gamers" that also like the "non-games". So for Ian to have his hissy fit that Nintendo is ignoring him or casting him aside, or whatever, is pretty rediculus. But, whatever, he can stay in his little circle of happiness all crotchety and cantankerous. He does NOT speak for all gamers, hardcore included, where plenty seem to have no problem with the new controls.

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I don't see why we must act like non-games aren't worthwhile to play, because there are some great experiences out there for non-games.

I hope that's not how I came across. But, that is the impression I get of Ian. That gaming is this 'pure' thing and is now being infected by these "non-games" and "non-gamers". I'm purposefully calling the so called "non-gamers" gamers now, because I think it is rediculus to continue to do so. They ARE gamers now. And just like all other gamers, they have different tastes in what makes a "fun" game to them. I'm HAPPY and elated to have more people to play games with now!

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Do I prefer to a play a Mario Galaxy or Zelda TP? Most definately, by a mile, but non-games have their place as well for times where I am relaxing or have a limited amount to play.

Well, put.

 

[31 Flavas]

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Originally posted by: Smoke39

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Originally posted by: 31 Flavas
As Neo from the Matrix would say.... "Free your mind!"

That was Morpheus, dude.

Sorry, Morpheus

[Kairon]

It's actually very interesting that this person was interested in Zelda... I can't help but get the completely unfounded expression that the author enjoyed Zelda for the immersive and narrative experience... and would be raving about the next Final Fantasy if she would actually start getting into games.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
It's actually very interesting that this person was interested in Zelda... I can't help but get the completely unfounded expression that the author enjoyed Zelda for the immersive and narrative experience... and would be raving about the next Final Fantasy if she would actually start getting into games.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

I was thinking along similar lines that maybe she is someone who has never really given games a chance but would actually love them. Like many things in life, sometimes you may not know you are interested or will enjoy it until you actually give it a chance!

[Ian Sane]

"Ian, there are going to be gamers who will only like 'non-games,' by and large, the new gamers that Nintendo wants to court. Some of them, sure, will probably get interested in traditional "gaming" through their exposure to gaming from the 'non-games,' but if they just aren't interested in the escapism that traditional games so aptly provides, you're going to have to accpet that. And conversely accpet that games you aren't interested in are going to be produced, i.e. 'non-games'."

Games I'm not interested in have existed since videogames were invented.  That isn't the issue.  The issue is Nintendo's focus.  Nintendo making non-games doesn't matter.  Nintendo focusing on non-games over "game games" does.  I don't want Nintendo games I'm not interested in to become more popular than Nintendo games I am interested in because then Nintendo will make more stuff I'm not interested in and less stuff I am.  When a new audience is targetted there is always the potential for them to exceed the old audience and thus the old audience gets squeezed out as priorities change.

I'm seeing this Zelda example and thinking that that doesn't have to be the way things go.  If Nintendo can get non-gamers interested in solid gaming that isn't dumbed down or compromised then they can expand their audience without alienating their core fans or having two different groups that require different product lines to please.  Plus I think it would be in their best interest that non-gamers become gamers.  Passionate gamers that consider gaming a major interest buy more games per year.  The more casual Wii owners are only going to buy like two games PERIOD.  Having a huge userbase of people that don't actually care that much about gaming isn't going to attract a lot of game sales.

I think it's a win-win idea.  The core group doesn't get alienated but new customers are brought into the fold at the same time.

[31 Flavas]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane

Games I'm not interested in have existed since videogames were invented.  That isn't the issue.  The issue is Nintendo's focus.  Nintendo making non-games doesn't matter.  Nintendo focusing on non-games over "game games" does.

Well, if it is such big issue to you, Nintendo isn't an option for you anymore. I honestly think you are ostracizing yourself, rather then Nintendo ostracizing you. But, whatever...

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I don't want Nintendo games I'm not interested in to become more popular than Nintendo games I am interested in because then Nintendo will make more stuff I'm not interested in and less stuff I am.

Oh, boo hoo. Cry me a river. Nintendo is doing something that you don't like? Too bad. You've got plenty of other options for video games. Handhelds, consoles, and the PC games.

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When a new audience is targetted there is always the potential for them to exceed the old audience and thus the old audience gets squeezed out as priorities change.

"Gamer" Gamers who have played the Wii games whether at E3 or Fusion Tour or (just staring to appear) Wii Kiosks, certainly havn't felt excluded, squeezed out, or whatever... It's your prerogative to continue to shun the Wii controller, but, and not to belabor the point, if you continue to do so, you won't be able to play the vast majority of the games Nintendo produces.

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I'm seeing this Zelda example and thinking that that doesn't have to be the way things go.

If i'm interperating Iwata and Reggies speeches and interviews, its the way they DO want things to go. Make new and interesting games using the Wii controller and make "traditional" games more accessable to the new gamers they are courting. I hear you, when you say you think the controls are gimmped or dumbed down or whatever, but according to reviews we've heard so far, that's far from reality.

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If Nintendo can get non-gamers interested in solid gaming that isn't dumbed down or compromised then they can expand their audience without alienating their core fans or having two different groups that require different product lines to please.

The middle ground is, of course, to make games that both can like. Not as in "non-games" and "games" for the respective gamers, but as in Z:TP Wii.

Both types of gamers can have their own games they enjoy, as well as, games they both can equally enjoy. These "non-gamers" don't have to become "gamers", nor should they EDIT: be force to.

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Plus I think it would be in their best interest that non-gamers become gamers.

Why? "Non-gamers" can't be as close minded as you are about what they want a game to be? Nintendo has had no problem selling selling non-games (Nintendogs, Animal Crossing, Brain Trainers, Language Trainers, etc....) to both gamers and "Non-gamers" on the DS.

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Passionate gamers that consider gaming a major interest buy more games per year.

And "non-gamers" wouldn't buy more non-games year over year?

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The more casual Wii owners are only going to buy like two games PERIOD.

Ok, now why is that? Why are these gamers only going to buy 2 "non-games" period and call it quits. It's absurd to make that comment when like 7 out of 9 "non-games" have been million unit (or 3 million unit) sellers in Japan.

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Having a huge userbase of people that don't actually care that much about gaming isn't going to attract a lot of game sales.

Oh right, because "non-gamers" aren't gamers, right. So I guess a "Gamer" that plays, enjoys, and has fun with "Non-games" is just a freak.