Topic: I don't understand this Console Gamer vs. PC Gamer nonsense.

[JonLeung]

How do you define a console gamer and a PC gamer?  It sounds like it should be what they play their games on, but why does it matter and why is there animosity between them?

Let's look at the PC games I've been played/replayed this year:
Beyond Good & Evil
Hitman: Blood Money
LEGO Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy
Pac-Man World 3
Prince Of Persia: Warrior Within
Psychonauts
Silent Hill 3
Silent Hill 4: The Room
Tomb Raider: Legend

Well, what do you know, all these games are also console games.

Now with the exception of Hitman (on the keyboard and mouse), I've played these games with an N64 controller (connected to my PC through a USB adaptor thanks to Lik-Sang) or a Logitech Dual Action game pad that resembles a PlayStation Dual Shock controller.  Also, both my computers are capable of being hooked up to our 57" widescreen TV.  So the controllers and the ability to play on a TV...same as if I was a strictly console gamer.

So if I continued to play only games that are also on consoles in a fashion similar to that of consoles but technically it's on a PC, does this make me a PC gamer or a console gamer, or would I be a double agent in the pointless war between console gamers and PC gamers?

Of course, neither format has had as much time spent on as on my DS/DS Lite.  (Too many DS games to play right now, grrr.)  Why are handhelds, PC, and consoles considered different markets?  How many people honestly strictly avoid or stick to just handhelds, PC, or consoles?  Am I the weirdo here for playing all three?

[Smoke39]

I hang out at a number of forums for PC games.  Many of them think console games are less sophisticated than PC games.  Cross platform titles are usually either 1: shoddy PC ports of console games, or 2: dumbed down console ports of PC games.

Deus Ex: Invisible War, for example, got a lot of hate from a lot of fans of the original, being accused of being dumbed down for console gamers, and designed with the technical limitations of an XBox over a PC in mind.  I personally think the former was a coincidence (wanting to streamline the experience for wider appeal at the same time they decided to design the game for both platforms simultaneously), but I think the latter is true (it was quite obviously designed with little RAM in mind, and some of the configuration files in the final PC version even still had settings calibrated for the XBox build).

I can understand complaints of stuff being lost in translation between the two (many PC ports ARE pretty half-assed), but I definitely don't agree that console games are for simpletons or anything.  I think they both just tend to offer different flavors of games.

[Strell]

You know, there was an incredible Penny Arcade comic called "SHUT UP!" concerning PC vs. console gamers, in which they basically just reiterated the other party was gay.

I don't know if they got into hot water for it, because I can't find it in their archives anymore.  It was most hilarious.

It was written around the time Starcraft: Ghost was announced primarily as a console game.  PC gamers went into sh*tfits about it.

If someone has this comic, please alert me.

[JonLeung]

I recall that one too.

Now, no one's commented on the games I played this year, but what I noticed about this past generation of PC games and the GameCube/PS2/Xbox games is that some developers like UbiSoft have churned out games for three or four platforms, many simultaneously.  I can understand that with the rising costs of game development, an easy way to translate games to play on all systems (and developing them with that in mind) is probably a good way to squeeze more money out of each game.

Now, with games like Final Fantasy XI on the PS2 and Xbox 360 where you have to set it up and spend a while installing, it's not really that different from a PC game, now is it?  The insert-disc-and-play-right-away appeal of consoles is immediately removed.

Consoles are now online too.  And with the different models of game consoles to choose from (two versions of each of the Xbox 360 and PS3), while still simpler than making choices for a gaming PC, it's still another choice more than it used to be.  And decent video cards are now not any more expensive than a new console.  So the line between console gaming and PC gaming is blurring, and yet some people seem to still think they're somehow so different, and arrogantly so.

[Shecky]

Playing your game on a computer makes you a "PC Gamer".  The main thing is the pain of having a capable machine and actually getting it to run, against the "It just works" nature of console games.  Take Lego Star Wars II which a friend and me purchased for the PC.  I got it to load, while my friend was not able to install it (apparently b/c of a not so uncommon problem).  After that my friend went with the "just works" DS version.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Jon you are getting a point that I felt has been wrong with console gaming, and that is the lines are being blurred. We have so many multiplatform games that a console experience is not as important as it once was since you can get most of those games for PC with better visuals if you have the cash for hardware. When growing up with systems like SNES/NES/N64 etc there was not this blurred line and you could have two distinct experiences with PC and console which was great. I think this errosion of uniqueness has caused console gaming to get stale since it is getting to the point of being a cheap PC that you don't need to upgrade.This is why I think the Wii has gotten me so excited, for the first time since the N64 days console gaming will be a unique entity compared to the PC with new experiences!

[Nick DiMola]

I've always considered PC gaming to have too high of an entry point. I usually come in and out of the PC gaming arena depending on my current hardware setup. Most of the time I can't play the latest and greatest because it is too costly. Regardless, PC gaming really is no different than console gaming. I do prefer the keyboard and mouse setup for shooters (now perhaps the Wiimote will pass that up) and I generally enjoy the higher caliber of graphics (hardware permitting). One part of PC gaming that I've always hated is the whole installation bit. If I buy a game I want to pop it in the disc drive and play. I find companies who make PC games are usually very lazy and sloppy and will not bother optimizing games because amazing hardware is available. When in a closed domain (console), you are forced to innovate to bring a certain experience to that platform. This is something I generally find lacking on the PC game end aside from a few very unique cases.

All in all, the whole fight between the two sides is completely retarded and I hate the argument. Going to college at a really technical institute (RIT) I constantly get sh!t for being a console gamer, and it just makes no sense. I am proudly a gamer, I will play any and all systems without discrimination, from PC to console to handheld.

[Smoke39]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
I find companies who make PC games are usually very lazy and sloppy and will not bother optimizing games because amazing hardware is available.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.  PCs have a lot of OS overhead that consoles don't, and making sure PC games run on any of countless different system configurations can be a huge headache.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I think the real difference between PC gaming and console gaming is you're typically BOUND to a desk+keyboard+mouse setup for PC gaming, while console game involves much more "sitting back" thanks to the prevailing household TV+couch+gamepad scenario -- provided your living arrangements don't force you to combine the two or sacrifice the other.

When I'm presented with both options, I'd rather have the "sitting back in a home theater" style of setup.  A mouse+desk simply doesn't offer that kind of convenience and comfort (then there's all the other kinds of traits inherent in the mouse, like its complete uselessness for non-shooter action gaming and the general lack of tangible feedback from all those stale pointy clicky shooty games (i have ubisoft to blame for destroying the franchises that would otherwise balance the quota)).

[Nick DiMola]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39

Quote
Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
I find companies who make PC games are usually very lazy and sloppy and will not bother optimizing games because amazing hardware is available.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.  PCs have a lot of OS overhead that consoles don't, and making sure PC games run on any of countless different system configurations can be a huge headache.

Well, I don't know about OS overhead, all you really have in that department is MFC code to deal with(assuming we are working with Windows) and DirectX (same assumption). I agree that configuring for many different setups can be very annoying, but if they choose a standard setup (ie - something most people can afford) and optimize within that realm they could probably provide amazing graphics without the need for ridiculous hardware. Half Life 2 is my case-in-point. That game ran flawlessly on my computer that had a crappy DirectX 8.0 compatible graphics card and looked absolutely gorgeous. Most companies would not put the effort in to get their game running on a lower end system, and I can only attribute that to pure laziness. It may be the publishers fault, but their is definitely a need for some more optimization in PC games. This also happens quite often with console games ported to the PC. Some nameless company does a half-ass port with no optimization and the game requires a set up so much more advanced than a console to run it's ridiculous. I could be totally wrong, but from friends I know who work in the industry, their apparantly is a lot more time invested in optimization for console games than PC games.

[Smoke39]

Valve's Source engine is definitely good at scaling to a variety of hardware setups.  I don't know the relative amount of time that's usually spent on optimizing for consoles v. PCs, but I find it hard to believe that PC game programmers are more lazy than those who program console games.  Game programmers are game programmers, and I think most people who get into game development do so out of passion, because it's a tough industry to be in.

[KDR_11k]

All I know is that PC games tend to control better than console games (yes, even platformers) because in 3d games the mouse is much better for camera control than a secondary analog stick you can't use while hitting one of the face buttons. For 2d games with many buttons and no cursor aim a gamepad is the better choice but K&M is better for the rest. Especially when indirect control enters the game which is why console RPGs are either turn based or let you control only one party member fully while PC RPGs let you control your entire party. And RTSes just aren't possible without introducing limitations on the console.

While we're at it, anyone here playing Company of Heroes?

[Nephilim]

Valve's Source engine is definitely good at scaling to a variety of hardware setups. I don't know the relative amount of time that's usually spent on optimizing for consoles v. PCs, but I find it hard to believe that PC game programmers are more lazy than those who program console games. Game programmers are game programmers, and I think most people who get into game development do so out of passion, because it's a tough industry to be in.

I totally disagree, valve did a horrid job on HL2 with compatability
Profiles were totally messed up, if you had a bad old card like a 5600(2004), it would load medium and run at 8fps
Halo PC also did this, Im guessing they do this so it gives off the impression that the min video card is really a 64mb card from 4years ago, when it isnt

 

[Smoke39]

Really?  Everything I've read has said it can scale down pretty well.  I've only personally played it on my own computer, though.

[ShyGuy]

I'm a handheld gamer. Both PC and Console games suck!

not really

[JonLeung]

Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
This is why I think the Wii has gotten me so excited, for the first time since the N64 days console gaming will be a unique entity compared to the PC with new experiences!

This is why I go with Nintendo...unlike most of the Xbox/Xbox 360's best games and some of the PS2's, Nintendo's best games are on Nintendo's consoles and handhelds and nowhere else.  If I want Zelda and Metroid, I know where to look.  If I want anything else, chances are it could also be for the PC which I already have.

When people say "why don't you have an Xbox/Xbox 360?" and I explain that many of the games are also on the PC, they look at me like I'm some kind of snob, even if they may be PC gamers themselves.  I don't get that.

 

[couchmonkey]

Personally I've never participated much in this debate.  I prefer console games because I like the "plug and play" aspect - I've never enjoyed installing, configuring and otherwise messing around with PCs.  But I have no animosity towards PC gamers and I have a couple of PC games, but overall I just don't enjoy sitting at the computer and playing as much.

Edit: but none of that is to say that I think PCs are bad for gaming or anything.  I'm much more neutral to them than other consoles because I don't see PC gaming as competing for the same market as Nintendo.

[Smoke39]

That's exactly why I've always stuck with Nintendo, Jon.  To me the 360 seems kind of like a PC without a mouse.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
That's exactly why I've always stuck with Nintendo, Jon.  To me the 360 seems kind of like a PC without a mouse.

Exactly and that is why I haven't felt as excited for a console until the Wii. I really do fear, like stated earlier, that PC gaming and console gaming will mix together which I do not think is a good thing.

[Smoke39]

PC and console gaming mixing seems like a bit of a double edged sword to me.  Multiplatform means a wider audience, which means developers can make more money.  It also means that PC gamers can get console games without having to buy a console, and console gamers can get PC style games and still have the convenience consoles have over PCs.  But you also have the potential for developers designing for the least common denominator so their game can work on everything, rather than catering to each platform's strengths.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
PC and console gaming mixing seems like a bit of a double edged sword to me.  Multiplatform means a wider audience, which means developers can make more money.  It also means that PC gamers can get console games without having to buy a console, and console gamers can get PC style games and still have the convenience consoles have over PCs.  But you also have the potential for developers designing for the least common denominator so their game can work on everything, rather than catering to each platform's strengths.

You have a point, though I do think PC gamers have a better deal going for them because of the mouse/keyboard along with gamepads. But like you said there is a tendency to be lazy and developers make games for the least powerful system and rush out a port (usually from console to PC) without taking full advantage of the unique control methods. That is why I am really glad that we should not be seeing this stuff with the Wii, it will have a unique experience.

[KDR_11k]

One advantage of the PC is that most of the time it's more powerful than a console so any framerate drops the game may have had on the console (I think Megaman X 8 has those) are gone in the PC version unless your PC is seriously outdated.

[Spak-Spang]

I think PC and Console gamers debate is slowly going away each and every generation.  

Though, there are several things that keep console games more mainstream than PC gamers.

1)Console is in a more central location of the house, and usually a gathering room...so it can be a social event, where computers are usually in an office, or atleast not the most convenient means to play multiplayer games.

2)Standardized control system makes playing Console gamers quicker to grasp and easier to embrace and play in the most part.

3)No installation of games, or hardware configurations to deal with.

4)Once you own a system you know what games you can play on it...without worrying about compatiability.

It is interesting...I think more casual to non-gamers play actual computers via solitare or so simple online game.  However, they would not consider themselves a casual gamer.  Yet, the console has the bigger market for gamers of all markets in general.  Console gaming is becoming mainstream and cool, while computer gaming still appears geeky/techy.

Personally I can't stand playing games on the computer.  I find it difficult to set the games up, and almost always do I find the controls for the game to be quite lacking.  Finally, sitting in front of the computer playing a game depresses me, which isn't true about playing games in a larger sized living room.

[KDR_11k]

Controls are pretty much standardized on PC games though the standards obviously differ for some genres (e.g. mouse driven games don't have any movement keys). Almost all games allow you to click on stuff which is usually the most intuitive way of performing actions that aren't needed quickly. Sure, masterful gamers will memorize the hotkeys for that as well but you don't need to. I don't think the differences between PC games are bigger than between console games (stuff like left/right turns instead of moves can vary between console games, too). And once you add the PS2 to the equation the chaos really begins. On that platform there's not even a convention for which button confirms (can be X or O) and which cancels (can be /\, O or X) the selection.

[JonLeung]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
One advantage of the PC is that most of the time it's more powerful than a console so any framerate drops the game may have had on the console (I think Megaman X 8 has those) are gone in the PC version unless your PC is seriously outdated.

Oh, yeah! (As in, you just reminded me.)

Did you know that the main Mega Man X games (except for 2) are all available for the PC?  Those are hard to find, as if Mega Man's just known as just a console game or something.  Or PC gamers wouldn't touch it.  I've been trying to find X 7 and X 8 myself (for the PC) for a while now...

I do like that the Logitech Dual Action gamepad (the one that's like a PlayStation Dual Shock) I got from E3 must be trying to set a standard...a lot of recent PC games recognize it and give me PS2-style controls right off the bat!