Topic: Requiem: The scared little boy who worries about his Wii

[Requiem]

I don't know about you guys, but I am getting more and more anxious everytime I read a preview.

Why?

Because of qoutes like this:

Quote
But does the Wii-mote actually improve the experience or merely provide a different way to play? To be perfectly honest, the verdict is still out.

-- IGN (I know, I know)

I can't help but worry about the Wiimote's quality factor. When I first touch the control, I want to see no hitches and glitches; I want it to be the next level in gaming. But the more and more I read, the more I feel like Nintendo may have gotten ahead of themselves this generation.

I have yet to see a game that truly innovates (maybe trauma center). Even Nintendo's own offerings seem a little g!mmicky. Don't get me wrong, I can't wait to at least try them out, but will the Wii live up to all the hype?

Sure....they really had no choice but to go this route due to both the 360 and PS3's focusing on superior graphics, however, everything still feels very rushed to me despite all the planning.

Hopefully my concerns are strictly superficial, and that it's the developers fault for the game feeling "laggy" or sometimes losing the controller. And hopefully, once I play Excite Truck or Hudson's plane game, my worries will wash away. Until then, I can't help but think that, at launch, the Wii is going to be battered with both dissapointments and praise alike and not a "HURRAH" for the next level of gaming as Nintendo intended.

[Nick DiMola]

I can sympathize Requiem, I have been hearing alot of negativity regarding the Wiimotes functonality and that it doesn't work as well as it should. I know everything will probably wind up just fine but I don't want to be disappointed by the Wii, because it has enormous potential.

[Kairon]

That's probably true. Just look at the DS' touch screen, have we really seen games that have utilized that fully? Few and far between.

The thing is though that the DS at first survived on Nintendo's name, and then soared on innovative game experiences like Brain Age and Nintendogs that REQUIRED the touchscreen, and also benefitted from Animal Crossing for which the touchscreen helped.

Hopefully, the Wii will be washed by the same blue ocean that caught up the DS. Why should Castlevania games be on the DS instead of the PSP? No real reason, but guess what? That blue ocean gave it bigger marketshare!

The point is that not EVERY game will use the Wii Controller well, it's that the KEY games will. And the key games will be able to drive the Wii marketshare not just because they're exclusive, but also because they're experiences that can't be offered or even mimicked on other consoles. (Brain Training or Nintendogs clones on the PSP: I rest my case)

In truth, the Wii's Killer Apps will resemble the DS' Killer Apps: smaller, less epic games that offer unique experiences to new audiences and are elegant(or frustrating) in their simplicity. Wii games like Trauma Center and Wii Sports will, in my opinion, be Nintendo's best chance to gain new marketshare to make their system a better proposition for third parties deciding where to put their "Castlevanias."

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[Smash_Brother]

I don't expect the first round of Wii games to fully utilize the potential of the controller, but that doesn't worry me about the system's future.

Besides, if you can use the thing to point to targets in FPSes instead of trying to clumsily target them with an analogue stick, then it already wins in one of the most hardcore market segments in gaming.

[Kairon]

Now if only they could figure out turning in Wii FPS'...

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Guitar Smasher]

You remember E3?  Yeah, everyone was thinking the same thing... until they tried it.

[Pittbboi]

I'm a little worried, too. After playing the Wii, I can say that the wiimote is not as responsive as it should be. Some may disagree, but the simple fact that there's lag and people are attempting to argue it away with "Well, it shouldn't effect the gameplay too much" means we have a problem.

I have seen some games where the controller operates smoothly (Excite Truck doesn't seem to have much of a problem), but in WiiSports I have seen the controller seriously lag behind the player's actions, and no matter what the reason, it will be considered annoying. WiiSports worries me more because it's going to be packed in with every Wii, it's the flagship game that's supposed to show the world how awesome the wiimote is. The controls in that game, therefore, need to be flawless and from what I've played, they're not. From bits and pieces that I've read, it seems that Nintendo skimmed a little bit of the technology in the controller, opting for the bare bones of what they'd need to get it to do what they want. Which is a shame, because I'm sure a lot of people would have shelled out at least $300 if it meant a more responsive wiimote, you know...the wiimote they promised..

I don't think the Wii will have a problem with game development costs this gen. I do, however, predict there being a major issue with coding for the wiimote. If the coding is just right, and the controller operates without any kinks, it's sure to be an amazing experience. However, if the controls are coded sloppily and there's even the slightest bit lag, it'll comprimise the entire game.

[zakkiel]

Quote
After playing the Wii, I can say that the wiimote is not as responsive as it should be. Some may disagree, but the simple fact that there's lag and people are attempting to argue it away with "Well, it shouldn't effect the gameplay too much" means we have a problem.

As anyone else reported this problem?

[Kairon]

There IS a lag, but the question is how much it will matter.

ComputerAndVideogames.com seems to be of the opinion that it's neglible:

Quote
Completely ignoring the on-screen prompts to start the game, we waved the controller gently left and right to test the pointer's response times. It's spot-on. If you're REALLY picky, you might say there's a slight nanosecond delay in the pointer's motion. But it's so slight it's not a factor - and we played Trauma Center long enough and hard enough to confirm that fact. Besides, these aren't final controllers, remember? Response time could be totally perfected on retail units (and we'll be testing those in two weeks time).

Also, the question may be how complex the gestures are that the Wii is requiring:

Trauma Center uses pointing and tilt+yaw, and from reports seems pretty accurate, as all the pointing games seem.
Wii Tennis uses tilt, yaw, rotation, AND acceleration, which may be producing a bit more lag?
Baseball uses acceleration and tilt/yaw/(rotation?), and seems to have less lag than Wii Tennis.
Excite Truck just uses rotation/yaw(?) and it seems to work fine.

AND we have yet to see how Red Steel performs...

But I share the same opinion that computerandvideogames holds: I think that dealing with lag is neglible. We deal with lag all the time in real life, from swinging a baseball bat to hit an oncoming fastball to swinging punches to swatting flies. It's wired into us, I don't think that it will be a big deal for many non-gamers.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[Caliban]

I usually don't read previews, except from PGC, and even those I still take them with a grain of salt.
Previews do not give an overall view of the whole game, and neither do reviews.
If you are worried about how some games will truly perform under your hands, just give it a rent.

[The Omen]

Quote
Now if only they could figure out turning in Wii FPS'...

I thought it's been solved with Metroids expert control mode?  At least that's what Matt at IGN said.  He says every fps developer will rip this control scheme from Retro.

[Pittbboi]

Well, with me, when I was going through the menus in WiiSports, the pointer always seemed to be a little to the right of where I knew I was actually pointing, but that might have just been poor calibration by the person before me.

However, I'm still in the group that believes any lag is a no-no. You didn't experience this type of lag using a standard controller, and I don't feel that should be compromised just so we could have a pointer function. From what I've read of the PS3, its controller doesn't have these problems. The Wii has proven that the controller CAN function without any of these glitches and deliver a very solid expeirence, but I think that might all depend on how much time a game developer spends on perfecting the controls. And if there are Nintendo games exhibiting these kinks, you better believe 3rd party games will be a whole lot worse.

As for non-gamers, I don't think I know what the appeal is anymore. I don't see any of my family wanting to play this, and my family has shown that they do like certain games depending on how pick up and play they are. For example, there isn't a single member of my family, grandparents included, that doesn't try to sneak in time with DDR or Karaoke Revolution when they think i'm not looking. But with those games, you either step on the pad or sing into a mic, and there's instantaneous results--it's all very self-explanatory. With the wiimote, there is a learning curve. Because of its uncomfortable shape and poor button placement and weird nunchuck attachment, not to mention all the little kinks some of the games have, as a non-gamer you're not going to be able to just look at it and KNOW what to do. And that alone is enough to keep a lot of non-gamers away.

Whether Nintendo admits it or not, there's just as much of a learning curve with the wiimote as there is with any other controller out there. This isn't a problem to me, or anyone else on this site I think, because we're all gamers. We have the patience for it. But I honestly see a lot of non-gamers who never got into videogames because of the confusing controllers STILL not getting into the Wii because the wiimote is just as confusing in its own way. And I think that has just a little to do with the fact that Nintendo didn't spend enough time or money developing the controller. Or maybe technology isn't at a point where such a responsive wiimote is possible. Either way, I'm still a Wii-fan, but i'm one that thinks Nintendo just got a few things wrong with this controller. It's not the perfect experience some people want it to be, and in some ways it should be.

[MaryJane]

my thoughts on the lag issue:

if you have a digital camera or any sort of device that captures an image and displays it on a screen there is lag. Even though it may seem like perfect motion capture that isn't all together possible. i was doing this the other day just for kicks and giggles with my digital camera, it is one of the higher up models (not SLR) and is the quickest digital camera i have ever used and yet while I couldn't visually decipher the lag, i could feel it in the sense that the exact moment my finger moved was not the exact moment the camera relayed the visual. my point is no matter how good the technology is there is processing time. That processing time could be mere nanoseconds but the human brain works faster than that. there is not integrating a CPU and GPU along with the sensor bar, controller accelerometers, and the many other components of the system itself. your brain tells your arm to move left and it happens, then the Wii has to interpret your movement, express it in a way for the computer to understand, and then display that motion on screen. to us who are used to the instantaneous responses our body makes that lag will always be noticeable, i moved my hand and then a split second later the arm on the T.V moved. there is no way to make it completely simultaneous barring a direct feed to your brain. no matter how fast a processor is the best technology is found within the human body at least when it comes to our perception of our surroundings. therefore, in this digital age when even our subtlest movements can be displayed in a digital format there will always be a delay.

i could be wrong of course but here is more evidence: an object traveling at 60MPH can also be said to be traveling 88ft per second. an object traveling at 100MPH can also be said to be traveling at 149.6ft per second. the distance from the pitchers mound to home plate in a MLB field is 60 feet and 6 inches or 60.5 feet. Which means that a ball traveling at 100MPH reaches home plate in .4 Seconds and yet the human body is able to react in that time and either move out of the way of such a pitch or swing and connect a baseball bat in that time. that is pretty amazing if you ask me.

the conclusion of all this is that our body functions work instantaneously and because the Wii-mote is supposed to be an extension of our arms we expect the same result which cannot be possible for the reasons I mention in the first paragraph. That delay can be shortened to a humanly inconceivable amount of time, but not at the moment as far as I know. That lag time is also directly correlated to the game developers knowledge and ability and the limitations of the hardware, so it should get better with time even if the hardware limitations don't.

the lag in a button press is the moment between our fingers moving from there stationary position to depressing the button, I believe that same lag exist with the Wii-mote except without the button press the lag is now between our movement and its digestion by the Wii system.

this is all my thoughts and not really based on anything except my general knowledge, and could very well be total BS. but as far as i can tell it's the logical explanation.

[Kairon]

MaryJane, you have beautiful BS.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[GoldenPhoenix]

I have no worries regarding the Wiimote, I feel that Nintendo, over anyone, realizes how important the controller is and will not screw it up. In regards to the learning curve, I think you need to differeniate between the "games" and the "non-games". Non-Games will be built around simple movements (or button presses) that any person can understand, while the more complex games will require a slight learning curve. We also have to realize that since we were all pretty much brought up on control pads, changing to the motion control adds even more to the learning curve than someone who is not really used to game pads.

[zakkiel]

For my part, I've seen a stream of overwhelmingly positive previews. I'm not worried that the controller can deliver. Some games will be not-so-hot, some will be crap, and that's to be expected.

[Kairon]

I don't read whether reviews are positive or negative, those are subjective opinions. Instead, I look for specific complaints and technical facts about the controller's utility.

Does it have lag? How does it work? When does it lose connection and how quickly does it re-connect?

I also look specifically at how it's utilized: how do gestures benefit games like Marvel: Ultimate Alliance for example? What is the control scheme on Tony Hawk: Downhill Jam? How do non-gamers with no previous emotional investment fare when asked to swing the racket?

It's not about whether that individual person liked it or not. It's about whether there are universal facts gleamed from those experiences that will translate to wider audiences outside of our small, insulated, hardcore internet community.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[Mikintosh]

I know Nintendo's been pitching the "we want grandmas, businessmen, dogs, etc. to play the Wii" angle for the console, because it makes them look like they're trying for an entirely new strategy compared to Microsoft and Sony (and pretty much every console manufacturer for the last 15 years or so). Very smart. However, I think who they're really after are disaffected former casual gamers (or at least former casual Nintendo gamers) who will be brought in by the interesting new way to play and the new game experiences that come with that. Those people will accept a slight learning curve, just as casual arcade gamers in the 70s and early 80s got used to playing the home consoles (tho maybe the Wii will be a bit more drastic). I'm not sure I'm making this argument logically, but that's what I think.

As for the lag, I've read about 20 or so hands-on accounts from the press and also from fans, and I only remember reading about one comment about any problems with it. I'm not saying the lag didn't happen to the people who said it did, but I'm tempted to believe they're isolated cases.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I have a feeling that alot of the lag is caused by so many systems close to each other, and the calibration they must do in order to get things to work properly in that kind of setting. Maybe Pale can tell us what Zelda TP was like in the way of lag since he played it in an enviroment that was meant to simulate a living room.

[Pale]

If you go into Wii thinking you are going to pick up a Wii remote and it is going to merge with your central nervous system, thus allowing you to play like never before, you will be in for a disappointment.  The fact is that a lot of people's initial impressions are the way they are because it is a different way to play.  We all saw it at e3.  When I played it again in September I got even more used to it.

Just make sure when you finally get to play it that you don't come to any quick judgements.  Get a couple hours under your belt then make up your mind.  You'll like it.

[Ceric]

I think that the difference might be a lot of units in one location.  I mean it can't be to terrible.  Most reviewers who have had one on one time with the Wii in a more controlled setting that is more like a home haven't noted it as a big issue.  I'm sure if there was they site it.  Or they have a contract saying they can't.

[Requiem]

True.

That article that Kairon linked to had four people playing on one Wii and everything worked without a hitch. I think its when you put them side by side that the sensor bar from both Wiis confuses each other.  

[Sempuukyaku]

These last few posts seem to make sense, as IGN also commented on how the controls got a little weird sometimes because there were multiple units next to each other. I guess I have yet to hear a SINGLE complaint from the previews I've read about the reaction time of the actual controller itself, so I'm not worried.  

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale

Just make sure when you finally get to play it that you don't come to any quick judgements.  Get a couple hours under your belt then make up your mind.  You'll like it.

ha-ha-ha... Since when have gamers ever NOT made snap judgements.....

[couchmonkey]

I think Pale's post captures it well.  I read somewhere that someone observing gamers playing Wii noticed the people with lots of experience had the most trouble getting used to it.  People who don't play a ton of games adapted faster.

Things definitely aren't going to be perfect, especially in the first-generation software.  In particular I expect Red Steel to get ripped for not being as good as a keyboard and mouse.  But I don't care, I think the games will be fun anyway.  And a few months down the road we're going to begin seeing the really good stuff.  IGN's last impressions of Metroid Prime were really positive and I've heard nothing but good things about Super Mario Galaxy too.