Author Topic: Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production  (Read 19157 times)

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Offline Deguello

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RE:Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2006, 01:58:45 PM »
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No, that is impossible. Performance is a two way street, film is one way.


I fail to see the distinction.  I mean, what if I were to film a Live performance in a theatre with a camcorder?  Would my left eyeball be on a two-way street and my right eyeball be on a one-way street? No way.  All films are Live performances.  Just taped and with many takes to get it "just right," but that take is just as live as the take they threw away.

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That is not the "other side" of the audience participation "street." Your analogy doesn't work.


My analogy works to me.  I go into a movie accepting certain highly improbable things made plausible by a good film crew (Please notice the distinction between "possible" and "plausible") and enter "their world," and in return I expect them to at least be plausible to members of the real world.

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You are correct. James Bond would never succeed at any of his missions, nor live for thirty years and never age. Superman cannot actually fly. Fish don't talk. Yet we accept certain things on stage and in film that we don't in real life. Do you really think that if something doesn't happen in every day life that it cannot be put on film? Film shows us events ranging from mundane to fantastic - fantasy is usually a method to describe something true through visuals when another method would not suffice. Music sung in a film is meant to be an emotional outpouring, one that describes and enhances the TRUTH, not reality, of a given moment. Truth is the ultimate goal of all art, not realism.


Again please note the difference between "plausbile" and "possible."  It is greatly possible and plausible for James Bond to succeed.  It requires the belief of many improbable things, but it is certainly plausible for a super-spy of his calibur.  Superman can fly.  Any man can fly.  We've been flying for over a century.  Now the idea of a man simply going "up up and away" and zooming out may be improbable to the point of impossibility, but the act of flying is very common, from airliners to hang gliders to those weird suits that also glide a man through the air to parachuting.  It may not be possible to do it, but it is certainly plausible to just fly like that.  And Fish do talk.  Cats, Dogs, Horses, even single-celled organisms talk.  They may not speak English, but they talk.  However, a big musical number during an important part of life is possible, but certainly not plausible.  (hypothetically) No gangster ever sang "Mob Man #1" in a witness box, a song he had written and rehearsed just incase he was ever arrested and put on trial.  And just what the hell is West Side Story?  I mean seriously.  Any message or truth one is trying to convey is pissed away the very second one strikes up the band and dances about.  It is ultimately jarring, even if the transitions are as smooth as possible.  The viewer has to switch off "plot" and switch on "song," which is why musicals are decidedly unpopular, and rightly so because of their inherent implausibility.

And you know what really chaps my ass about musicals?  Why do they corrupt everything they touch?  I have been in a fair share of musicals myself (high school), and it always stings when I found out there is a straight version of the play that existed before, and that it was ADAPTED into a musical.  I was in My Fair Lady in High school and when I found out it used to be a play called Pygmalion until somebody put lyrics in it for some reason.  Musicals just cheapen everything they touch.  You say not to look at the modern "flashy" musicals and check out older ones.  But even then the older ones are most of the time versions of something else, which would make them the "flashy" versions of those movies/plays/books.  I seriously hate that.  Make an original musical please, and stop infecting everything else.  I mean seriously, Les Miserables?  A Musical?  Victor Hugo is spinning in his grave.  Did they think it wasn't good enough or something?

I think that last part of my post was supposed to be a joke, Evan.  It was about your assertation that Batman Begins is poorly edited, and immediately I got the image of somebody jumping up in a theater going "WOOO!  The film has AWESOME editing man!"  
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2006, 02:53:10 PM »
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Originally posted by: Deguello
And you know what really chaps my ass about musicals?  Why do they corrupt everything they touch?  I have been in a fair share of musicals myself (high school), and it always stings when I found out there is a straight version of the play that existed before, and that it was ADAPTED into a musical.  I was in My Fair Lady in High school and when I found out it used to be a play called Pygmalion until somebody put lyrics in it for some reason.  Musicals just cheapen everything they touch.  You say not to look at the modern "flashy" musicals and check out older ones.  But even then the older ones are most of the time versions of something else, which would make them the "flashy" versions of those movies/plays/books.  I seriously hate that.  Make an original musical please, and stop infecting everything else.  I mean seriously, Les Miserables?  A Musical?  Victor Hugo is spinning in his grave.  Did they think it wasn't good enough or something?


Just wait until you find out how that Pymalion play you rever so much was really a COMPLETE retooling and not-at-all-faithful retelling of an ancient greek tragedy of the same name! OH NOES! IS NOTHING SACRED? DEATH TO THE HACK GEORGE BERNARD SHAW!

Watch Jesus Christ Superstar, a "rock-opera" that was intended for the visual medium even though it was actually released as a record before it was adapted as a play and then a movie.

Or watch De-Lovely starring Kevin Kline and Ashley Judd, a film about the professional life of Cole Porter, whose music for both stage and screen is used to tell his story, and features musical performanes by Elvis Costello, Alanis Morisette, Natalie Cole, Sheryl Crow, Diana Krall, Robbie Williams, and more!

The thing about musicals is that we don't have to believe that people actually break out singing, song is just an abstraction of the things people say, feel, and do. Musical numbers just take all that human experience, and condense it into an emotive mix of lyrics, music, dance, and visuals.

Heck Dequello, nobody in real life talks the way people do in sappy love songs. Nobody ever knows the right on-liner to use like in those witty movies. No one is ever swept off their feet like in one of those harlequin romance novels. NOBODY looks like Tom Cruise... except, well, Tom Cruise.

I guess those are also unrealistic, ridiculous and implausible forms of entertainment!

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Offline Deguello

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RE: Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2006, 07:44:27 PM »
Musicals still suck.  I have hated absolutely every single one of them, with zero exception.  Even the ones others try to get me to like musicals with.  With the exception of that one about Cricket Svevan wants me to see, I have seen every single one listed in this thread, including Sweeny Todd and Cats, and they are all awful.  Every single one of them.  I cringe everytime a musical number starts.
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2006, 07:46:23 PM »
What about that episode of Buffy that was a musical?

Offline Pryopizm

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RE: Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2006, 08:18:20 PM »
It seems that the problem does not lie with the musical, but rather with Deg.
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Offline Deguello

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RE: Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2006, 11:42:41 PM »
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It seems that the problem does not lie with the musical, but rather with Deg.


I have an alternate theory.  Musicals suck, and the hordes of people who support them have no taste, but that's how this whole topic started then, now isn't it?
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Offline wandering

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RE:Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production
« Reply #56 on: October 12, 2006, 06:10:16 AM »
You can't tell me you don't like Cabaret.

Okay, I've got it. The Meaning of Life. Not even you could cringe during "Every Sperm is Sacred." ...well, I mean. I guess maybe you're supposed to cringe. You know what I mean.
“...there are those who would...say, '...If I could just not have to work everyday...that would be the most wonderful life in the world.' They don't know life. Because what makes life mean something is purpose.  The battle. The struggle.  Even if you don't win it.” - Richard M. Nixon

Offline wandering

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RE:Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production
« Reply #57 on: October 12, 2006, 02:59:14 PM »
Anyway. Back to our argument. I think, fake wandering, the problem with what you're saying is that you're mixing up fact and opinion. Let's say someone has a nasty childhood experience where a spider leaps out and bites him, and this person hates spiders for the rest of his life. And then another person, as a child, is distracted by a beautiful spider web, and it saves him from being hit by a car. And so this person loves spiders for the rest of his life. How is either person objectively right?
“...there are those who would...say, '...If I could just not have to work everyday...that would be the most wonderful life in the world.' They don't know life. Because what makes life mean something is purpose.  The battle. The struggle.  Even if you don't win it.” - Richard M. Nixon

RE: Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production
« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2006, 04:19:06 PM »
But let's say that person, who had a bad experience with a spider as a child, comes to realize that spiders do more good than harm in the world. And let's say he comes to accept and even like spiders. Wouldn't you say that person is more "right" than a person who had a bad experience, and then hates spiders for the rest of his life?  
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Offline Svevan

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RE: Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production
« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2006, 04:55:54 PM »
Perhaps this rhetorical conversation can end and real discussion can ensue?
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production
« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2006, 07:47:08 PM »
Okay, real discussion:

Ebert & Svevan? When will it come truuuuu?!?!

BELIEVE!

~Carmine M. Red
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Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Svevan

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RE: Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2006, 11:39:16 PM »
Poor Ebert - he'll be dead before I get on TV.

Oh, never replied to Deg or Caliban: DISAGREE. Sorry. Nothing intelligent to say at this time.
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Offline Caliban

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RE: Evan Has Bad Taste In Movies: A Radio Production
« Reply #62 on: October 15, 2006, 01:16:39 PM »
I disagree your disagree...lol nahhh I really don't care if you respond back or not, it just feels nice when sometimes we can post something more intelligent than the usual brain farts we see on the interweb'er.