Topic: classic controller

[Robageejammin]

Might be a stupid question but it just slipped my mind and I wasn't sure. To play the virtual console games do you HAVE to have a classic controller? any word on gc control? I forget

[ShyGuy]

I assume you can play NES games with the wiimote. Probably TG-16 games too, maybe Genesis.

[TrueNerd]

The correct answer is: We don't know yet. I would suspect you will need the classic controller because Nintendo is a business and if they can make you buy more stuff, they will.

But even if they do allow GC controllers to play VC games, I'm still getting a classic controller as it will work perfectly with SNES games, or more specifically, Super Metroid.  

[Svevan]

Oh geez Super Metroid I forgot, if that is available at launch how am I ever going to get reviews done? And my guess is with TrueNerd: VC Controller required for VC games.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I am going to say MOST VC games will require the controller (I guess it is still possible for GC ones to work) except for NES games which may utilize the Wiimote turned on its side.

[Blue Plant]

I'm not sure I'd even want to play the old stuff with a Gamecube controller.  To really feel like you're experiencing those golden days all over again is to hold a controller with that shape.  

Dorky, yes, but still...  It helps to cement the feeling. >.>

[Kairon]

I swear, I'm going on a NES game buying spree. The Wiimote is PERFECT.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Nick DiMola]

I agree Blue Plant I really hope somebody releases either Classic Controllers that are just like the old ones, or adaptors so that we can plug the actual old controllers into the wiimote (doubt this is possible, unless Nintendo writes drivers for each controller and sticks them in the wiimote).

[wandering]

I imagine the wii's controller will work well enough for all (Nintendo system) games except for Snes ones.

...and you could, I would guess, use GC controllers for those. (Not that I'll be doing that. I tried playing the original Zelda with one of those things. Ugg.) Game sales are more important to them than controller sales, I imagine. They know the classic controller will sell because it'll be the ideal way to play certain games, so there's no need for them to gimp the games.

[Nick DiMola]

I have one of these and I really hope I can use it for anything pre-N64. For the 64 I think it might be nice to use a Gamecube controller just because the control stick it so much better. I'm still on the fence about the classic controller, mainly the positioning of the analog sticks. It reminds me of the PS2 controller which I hate so damn much.

[UncleBob]

I have two of those. :Þ

I really, really hope we get to use GameCube controllers for the VC games just so I can use those.  If not, well, poo.

[Ian Sane]

"I imagine the wii's controller will work well enough for all (Nintendo system) games except for Snes ones."

What about the N64?

I just hope they allow Cube controllers to work.  Not just because it's good to provide more options but then I can use my Hori Pads!!

Edit: Turns out Hori Pads were mentioned but I didn't notice because I didn't click on the link.  Well carry on.

[JonLeung]

I don't see why they didn't make it an N64 controller with a Select button (wireless would've been nice, too, instead of plugging into the WiiPointer).  I used an N64 controller on my PC for the longest time, and it fits everything I've played.

You need six face buttons for the six-button Genesis games and of course the N64 games.  (In many games the C-buttons weren't used just for a camera so a C-stick isn't a replacement when you need to hit, say, C-left and C-right at the same time.)  I also liked the Z-trigger underneath for shooters...though I guess GoldenEye and Perfect Dark are unlikely to come to the VC...but still!

Why are there two sticks?  The stick isn't a replacement for the C-buttons (as I already mentioned).  And what's with the four shoulder buttons?  (The two inner ones look awkward to me).  It's almost like they hope to get a few PlayStation games someday.

At first I thought it was ludicrous, but I might consider it if they actually had controllers that were just like the originals but were wireless (or plug into the WiiPointer since they insist on that).  At least for the N64 games.

[Ian Sane]

"I don't see why they didn't make it an N64 controller with a Select button"

Isn't it obvious?  That is a solution that would work perfectly with every game on the VC.  They had to screw it up a little bit just to remind us we were using a Nintendo product.

[couchmonkey]

Ha ha, Ian, did you take that from Penny Arcade, or is it just coincidence?  Because those were their exact words when Nintendo reelased the GBA SP without a normal headphone jack.

[wandering]

Quote
"I imagine the wii's controller will work well enough for all (Nintendo system) games except for Snes ones."

What about the N64?

Well, there's an analog stick, 2 shoulder buttons, an a and b button, and a d-pad (which should work just as well as the c-stick as a replacement for the c-buttons.)

Quote
I don't see why they didn't make it an N64 controller with a Select button

That's what I was hoping for, at least in terms of button layout. (You could probably do away with the 3 prongs.)

[JonLeung]

Maybe they'll release that or some other classic controller redesign later on, to frustrate people who buy four classic controllers right at launch.  >_<

And again, I must really point out the inability of the C-stick to replace C-buttons.  Fighting games tended to use all four C-buttons.  How would you hit C-Up and C-Down at the same time?  Or C-Left and C-Right?  And even in fighting games you rarely would, but the position is incorrect (being below the face buttons) and it'd be awkward to use a stick for basic moves (we're not talking about Capcom Vs. SNK 2 EO's GC-ism mode where a stick is used for special moves), especially in combination with buttons.

It only works when it's used for the camera, but that's not as often as Nintendo expected, and it could work in certain games like Mischief Makers (C-buttons shake in the corresponding directions), but you will find difficulty in trying to play the entire N64 library with only a C-stick and no C-buttons.

[UltimatePartyBear]

Can you really hit C-up and C-down at the same time on an N64 controller?  Using just your thumb?  Without hitting anything else?  Aren't you supposed to get a special fighter controller for that sort of thing, anyway?

I'm not going to say you don't have a point, but I am going to say that any game that requires such contortions is very badly designed.

[JonLeung]

Even if you're not hitting buttons at once, just hitting them as they were originally intended as separate buttons when it's now a stick is just plain awkward.

Imagine if the B and A buttons were replaced by a lever or a switch that flips-flops between two positions...B and A.  How would you use that in place of buttons?  Not very well, I'd imagine.  Now imagine that lever is in a different location than it was before.  See?  Too awkward.  Yet it seems to be what everyone seems to be okay with regarding C on the classic controller.  I guess the only N64 games you guys played happened to be the ones where it won't be an issue, 'cause I'm still certainly concerned.

What may happen is that games won't be straight emulation, and that controls will be tweaked for certain games.  I could see that as a possibility, but people that are greater purists than I might complain.

Still, Mischief Makers is one particular case where I now think it might be cool for the stick to be C.

[UltimatePartyBear]

I didn't say it wasn't awkward.  I just don't think the most common criticism of it is convincing.  Personally, I didn't have any problems with the C-stick when I replayed Majora's Mask on my Gamecube.  On the other hand, I don't think I'd like it in Rogue Squadron (not that I could ever play that glitchfest again now).  Of course, I don't know for sure.

Now if you don't like it, that's fine.  Really, it is.  I find it odd that the classic controller doesn't have six face buttons, too.  I just think the c-up and c-down thing sounds like reaching for an excuse.

[JonLeung]

Okay, don't use that as a reason then.  >_< It was just one example of one apparent impossibility.

I suppose if Rareware's off-board, not only does this save them from having a Z-button as a natural gun trigger (though there must've been other shooters on the N64 other than GoldenEye and Perfect Dark) but also from having Killer Instinct Gold become complicated with the C-buttons or stick, where a kick/punch and the strength of each one is very specific for creating combos.

Watching someone play Killer Instinct and pull off a long combo with the C-stick instead of buttons might be impressive, but would likely complicate an already tricky system, especially to veteran fans of the series.

There are other fighting games...at the time, I remember enjoying Dark Rift and Mace: The Dark Age.  Those probably used C-buttons in similar ways.

I may be making a mountain out of a molehill, but I don't see how a C-stick replacing four C-buttons is okay when it's clear that if every button was replaced as a direction on a stick it really wouldn't work.  I also didn't have issues with Ocarina Of Time and Majora's Mask on the GameCube, but I don't want the controller to force certain games to not be released or be overly tweaked just to fit a controller that could've simply had two more buttons.

[UltimatePartyBear]

See?  Drop the weak complaint, and you come up with a good one.  Though I have to say (and I'm not picking on you) that I never thought the Z trigger felt anything like a gun.  I've fired guns.  I used my right hand.  The Z trigger always felt like a secondary function button for my weak hand that was bizarrely used more and more as a primary button as time went on.

Anyway, considering that of all the Virtual Console platforms, none have need of a second analog stick, it's pretty clear the classic controller is capitulation to the Sixaxis of Evil, not strictly a means to play Virtual Console games.  If there's a market for it, some third party controllers might fix the problem.  I like the design of the classic controller, but I'm not really sure what Nintendo had in mind when they came up with it anymore.

[JonLeung]

And then there's the 6-button Genesis controller.  How many games used the extra three buttons after they added them later on?

[Ian Sane]

"Ha ha, Ian, did you take that from Penny Arcade, or is it just coincidence? Because those were their exact words when Nintendo reelased the GBA SP without a normal headphone jack."

Yeah I took it from Penny Arcade.  That's one of their funniest comics.

Another one I like is in response to those horrible blister packs controllers come in.

"What was wrong with boxes?"

"No good.  People kept getting their stuff out."

[ThePerm]

ooh maybe turok with some enhancements...if all the rights are wrangled