Topic: Official Fusion Tour Wii Impressions Thread

[trip1eX]

Good feedback.  Especially the point about the tennis motion having to be done before the system can register it.  Never thought of that and hopefully it's something that you get used to.


YOu sorta contradicted yourself abit tho.  You said WiiSports was too pick up and play and then you said you barely figured it out just before your time was up on WiiTennis and you wonder how grandpas and sisters are going to do if you can't figure it out.  

I wouldn't take Nintendo too literally when they say they are expanding their audience.  I think too many take that to mean every game is suddenly made for grandmas.    The reality is that it's  more subtle than that.  What they will do is also make some games for those audiences and in turn hope those audiences latch onto some of their other games.  I hate to say look at the DS, but hey look at the DS.   OTher things they have done is to design the control in the shape of a remote and make the name and sytem more less intimidating.  

Non-gamers too might actually have a easier time than some gamers.  They don't have to unlearn anything.  

[zakkiel]

Yeah, that contradiction bothered me too. It's hard to know what to make of the criticisms when they're mutually exclusive. How do you evaluate the depth of a game when you figure out what you're doing 2 seconds before the end of the demo?

[Svevan]

Button placement on the Wii Remote IS a problem - if Nintendo doesn't fix it now, they will probably have to later a la Xbox S Controller.

[Pittbboi]

My fault, let me clarify.

When I said the game was a little too pick up and play, I was referring to the game specifically.  The game itself is way too simple for my liking.  The only difficult part--at first--was learning the controller, as there IS a curve and it WON'T come naturally like Nintendo wants everyone to believe. Even on my second play, when I had figured out the controller and could play the game adequately, Wii Tennis was still too simple. Heck, the characters zero in on the ball automatically, all you could was hit the ball, and in the short amount of time I had to play the game that got boring. This is why I'm not a fan of WiiSports, they've removed everything that makes it even a tiny bit difficult. In tennis you don't have to worry about running and staying with the ball; in baseball all you do is hit or pitch and the game does the rest.  Nintendo thinks this is an awesome feature, I and the guys who were there with me thought it was boring and a cheap excuse to get out of actually coding a "game" game.

[Kairon]

Is button placement on the wiimote a problem, or is it the D-Pad placement that's the actual problem? In that I've heard you have to shift your hand position constantly if you're using both the D-pad and the A-button?

Oh, and I DO wonder why Wii Tennis doesn't use a one-to-one correlation... why check for the entire gesture? Is there also a lag for Wii Baseball, which as far as I know IS actually one-to-one and not gesture based?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Pittbboi]

I would say the button placement on the actual wiimote was a problem (the nunchuck attachment didn't seem to be much of a problem). With your hand at the standard position on the wiimote, the d-pad is fairly accessible. There is a little shift required to hit the A button. It can be done without much problem, but the little shift needed will make it annoying after a while. The other buttons can forget it. with my large hands, I was able to hit those buttons with very little shift of the actual controller...I just had to strain my thumb. I imagine that people with small hands will actually have to shift the controller a great deal to get to those buttons. But, no matter the size of your hands, the very fact that you have to strain and/or shift is so annoying that you might as well just count those buttons out. I imagine the gloves Nintendo's made for the controllers will make it even harder to shift the controller.

Nintendo's making games that require very little in the way of buttons, so I don't imagine their games having a problem. However, for third parties, games that require a lot of buttons might not translate very well to the Wii.  I mean, all the buttons are in some way accessible, but hitting some of them has proven to be just a bit uncomfortable. Some people believe that the wiimote's motion sensing abilities can make up for it but, after using the wiimote myself, I have to admit that I don't think it's responsive enough to adequately replace buttons.


Oh, and I did notice a slight lag in Wii Baseball, but it didn't seem to be as annoying as in Tennis.  

[Kairon]

I'm interested Pittbbois, what exactly about your experience leads you to believe that non-gamers will have difficulty pickin up the Wii?

Wii Sports is straightforward isn't it? You say that you didn't get the hang of Wii Tennis until a little bit later, but what exactly prevented you from doing this? ... is the lag your only complaint? You could swing, you could slice, you could lob, but you couldn't ever time your swings right?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Kairon]

If you watch the French video carefully, you can see the lag in Wii Tennis. These first-timers though seem to be coping exceptionally well...

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[trip1eX]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
My fault, let me clarify.

When I said the game was a little too pick up and play, I was referring to the game specifically.  The game itself is way too simple for my liking.  The only difficult part--at first--was learning the controller, as there IS a curve and it WON'T come naturally like Nintendo wants everyone to believe. Even on my second play, when I had figured out the controller and could play the game adequately, Wii Tennis was still too simple. Heck, the characters zero in on the ball automatically, all you could was hit the ball, and in the short amount of time I had to play the game that got boring. This is why I'm not a fan of WiiSports, they've removed everything that makes it even a tiny bit difficult. In tennis you don't have to worry about running and staying with the ball; in baseball all you do is hit or pitch and the game does the rest.  Nintendo thinks this is an awesome feature, I and the guys who were there with me thought it was boring and a cheap excuse to get out of actually coding a "game" game.

Still sounds like your contradicting yourself.  You want to rip Nintnedo on both ends.  Too hard for non-gamers and too easy for hardcore ones.  I guess that makes it just right for the sweet spot of the market tho aka the casual gamers.  

[Pittbboi]

Then I'll break it down for you:

Actual Games: Too Easy

Controller: Learning Curve

Once you learn the controller, you're left with the actual game...which is still too easy..

[Shecky]

Pick up and play doesn't mean there isn't a learning curve.  If you've adjusted after the second match, then thats a fairly quick curve too... showing natural controls which is what's needed for the casual gamer.  I don't get this non-issue of "OMG I had to get used to using the Wii remote... Nintendo is going to fail for the casual gamer".  There is always a learning curve.  Look at Brain Age and the DS.  That has a learning curve.  It'll take one or more rounds of quick math to "get it" and adjust to some of the aspects of play and how you may have to adjust how you write in some cases.  It's a fast adjustment though.

[Pittbboi]

Who said the controller is going to outright fail? My point was that it's Nintendo giving the impression (just look at their ads and press releases) that anyone will be able to pick up the controller and just dive in. They said they're appeal for non-gamers would be the non-intimidating controller that's more in tune with the player. What i'm saying is that, after played pretty much every gaming system, I can say there's just as much of a learning curve for the wiimote as any other controller.

[couchmonkey]

..of course the point is, does the additional learning curve hold true for non-gamers and lapsed gamers?  Try explaining the controls of the Legend of Zelda or Splinter Cell or even Super Smash Bros. to someone who's never played any of those games.  Better yet, someone who hasn't played video games in over 10 years...

Now try explaining Wii sports.  There's a learning curve, but there's nothing else to explain past "swing the controller around".  After that it's just practice.

The content of Wii sports does seem thin for a current hardcore gamer, though, I totally agree with that.

[trip1eX]

I think you take the whole easy for non-gamers thing too literally.  I sense that you somehow think Nintendo is developing a magic pill that a non-gamer takes and immediatley that non-gamer understands it all  

The intuitive and small learning curve of the wiimote in a game like WiiTennis comes from the fact that everyone instinctively knows how to swing a racket.  They know the motions already.  It's just a matter of timing.

The appeal of the wiimote shape to is that someone that doesn't play games or many games will find it less intimidating to pick up.  And would relate to swinging it like a tennis racquet more than pressing a button.  

It's not a magic pill tho.  

Also the wii sports games are party games.  I'm not sure what you expected them to be.   The fun is playing other people.  That's where the difficulty lies too.    

I mean I guess you would find any tennis game too easy since there's not much more to a tennis game then swinging the racquet.  About the only thing they could add is running.  

Chess is a hardcore game.  Yet you can understand the rules very quickly.  IT's the playing the opponent part where the challenge (and difficulty) lie.

[wandering]

Quote
The other buttons can forget it.

Start/home/back, you mean? Or 1 and 2? 1 and 2 aren't really meant to be accessible.

Quote
This is why I'm not a fan of WiiSports, they've removed everything that makes it even a tiny bit difficult. In tennis you don't have to worry about running and staying with the ball; in baseball all you do is hit or pitch and the game does the rest. Nintendo thinks this is an awesome feature, I and the guys who were there with me thought it was boring and a cheap excuse to get out of actually coding a "game" game.

The game was made with people like Steven Spielberg in mind. The fact that it doesn't require you to manipulate an analog stick in one hand and the wiimote in the other while pressing various buttons isn't due to laziness.

[couchmonkey]

Well, I admit that when I heard the initial controls for Wii Tennis I wondered why you don't control the position of the player in the court...I mean, covering the court and is a huge part of the strategy behind tennis (or at least Mario tennis ).

That said, I now realize that this game is intended to impress people that don't currently play many games.  For them, not controlling the little guy as he runs around the court might not seem like a huge issue, even though it reduces the depth of the gameplay from a gamer's perspective.

[wandering]

And I'm sure Mario tennis or another game will come along and fill that need for depth.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Took people long enough to realize it.

[couchmonkey]

Well, I think everyone takes it for granted that a more complex tennis game is coming.  The point is to argue ad nauseum about the suckiness of Wii Sports!!  BLAH!

[Kairon]

Wii Boxing will be a killer app. Mark my words!!! ... or not.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Ian Sane]

Regarding complaints about Wii Sports I think they're valid even if a "better" tennis game will come along.  Everyone has to buy Wii Sports with their console.  The Japanese version doesn't come with the game and costs less money.  So essentially North Americans have to pay extra for a pack-in game with the depth of a thimble.  Now the costs might not in reality transfer so easily but it puts the idea in your head.  There's the attitude that if we have to own the game then it better be something we like.

[Kairon]

Thankfully, only hardcore, internet, fanboi gamers like us will feel like we're being forced to buy Wii Sports. (note: I was gonna buy it anyways, so yeah) 99% of everyone else who will buy the Wii will feel like Wii Sports was a cool little demo disc that they got along the the console.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Smash_Brother]

I wouldn't have bought Wii Sports because I personally don't need convincing, but I admit it could be a great deal of fun.

[bosshogx]

So, I'm hitting Jacksonville this weekend with the camera in tow.  Nobody's really spoke up about wanting to see anything in particular, so how about gameplay or controller style questions instead?  If not, cool, I'll post up my feedback when I get back home.  

[bosshogx]

Ok, just got back from the Jacksonville show and here's what I have to report.

They had Wii Tennis, Wii Bowling, Wii Baseball, Wii Shooting, Excite Truck, Wario Ware, and for the first time on the tour, Zelda! w00t!!

So, Wario Ware was by far the easiest game to "get".  Before each mini game, the way to hold the controller would pop up on the screen.  The people that seemed to have the most trouble were the ones who didn't want to look stupid.  Sigh....EVERYONE looks stupid playing video games.  Get over it people.

For me, Tennis was the next easiest to pick up and play.  Someone mentioned earlier about lag, and he was right.  There is a delay, but not enough to ruin the experience.  I play tennis from time to time and can say that the ball reactions are pretty spot on.  Serving is just as easy as flip up on the controller (kinda like flipping a pancake) then giving the invisible ball an overhead smash.  Real easy and quite satisfying.

Baseball was good.  I actually enjoy not having to field and run the bases.  The sense of immersion is better in this title than in the others I played.  As I was waiting for my friend to pitch, I could wag the remote next to my head and my on screen persona would react the same way.  Very cool.  Pitching can be done overhead, sidearm, or underhanded, although I couldn't get side arm and underhand down pat.  You use the A button to throw a curve, B to throw a splitter, and A+B to throw a screw ball.  Using no buttons got you a fastball.  The only complaint I have with this title had nothing to do with the game at all.  The damned contollers were tethered to the kiosk and the cord wasn't long enough for our over zelous baseball style of playing.  

Excite Truck is played with the remote held like an NES pad.  The D pad was turbo, 2 button was gas, and the 1 button was brakes.  A lot of people had trouble with it, but mostly because they were slinging the controller around like madmen.  It's fast, very fast, with no signs of slowdown.  If you land a jump perfectly with the terrain, just like you could in Excitebike, you get a turbo boost.  Good stuff, oh and the Super Tree Run owns.

Bowling was badass.  Hold B, place contoller in front of you, pull back, release B.  Easy, except I kept releasing the button to late causing my guy to toss the ball in the air.  I did see one guy nail a score of over 200.  Obviously, the problem lies in my own inept bowling skills, not with the gameplay setup.

Wii shooting was basically duck hunt.  Point, shoot, win.  Not worthy of buying as a standalone game, but definately cool as part of a multi game pack.  Lots of stuff to shoot, broken into 5 stages, with the last stage having your onscreen Miis being abducted by aliens!

Zelda looked beyond beautiful.  Not slowdown, brilliant art direction, smooth animations.  Again, spastic people made the bow/boomerang aiming look painful.  Just relax and move the contoller smoothly and it works great.  Ironically, the weirdest part was the sword slashing.  I kept trying to hit the A button and ended up doing leap attacks all over the place.  Camera work was fine, with the Z button on the nunchuck being the lock on/centering feature for the camera.  I imagine a free range look around could be done with the bow/hookshot/boomerang.  The iron boots were assigned to left on the d pad, boomerang on the right, and hookshot on down.  The bow was assigned to B.  When you equiped the hookshot or boomerang, they went to the B button and the bow went to there position.  Messed me up a little, but I got used to it after a while.  The boss was awesome.  Typical Zelda fight, using a combination of items to defeat him.

Gotta go for now, but I'll discuss the DS stuff a little bit later.  Long story short, all my fears are gone now and Nov.17th can't get here fast enough.  Later.