Topic: That $250 price tag again...

[UncleBob]

Okay, I was posting about this over on CAG and was playing with some numbers...

A lot of people are complaining that the $250 tag on the Wii is way too high for what many are considering an "upgraded GameCube with a new controller".  So let's go with that.

The GameCube costs $100 new.  Subtract the $20 for the price of the older controller and you get $80.

Now, add in the $50 Wii Sports.  There are those who will claim that Wii Sports isn't worth $50, but, regardless of what you may think, it'd be a $50 game at launch.

Now, the major upgrade that the Wii itself has over the GameCube is the built-in WiFi.  That's hard to put a price on, but we'll have to go on what's established.  The GameCube had a wired Broadband adapter that ran $30-$35 new.  The Wireless adapter for the XBox 360 runs $100.  So what would the "retail cost" of adding WiFi to the GameCube be worth?  I'm going to say $50 (though that is debatable).

Next, the controller.  The only "next gen" controller is the XBox 360's and it runs $50 (for the wireless one - and the Wii is wireless).  Considering how much more crap is crammed into the Wii controller (motion sensor, memory, speaker, etc), I don't think the MSRP of $60 is too much to expect from the Wii Controller/Nunchuck pair.

So, $80 GameCube + $50 Wii Sports + $50 WiFi + $60 Controller... $240, a mere ten bucks shy from the price of the GameCube...  Now, aside from the controller and WiFi, is it too much to ask for $10 for the other upgrades in the Wii (the Mii Profile maker, Flash Memory, SD slot, etc)... am I right?

[Hostile Creation]

A PS3 is an upgraded PS2 without a new controller.  Same thing for the Xbox 360.  This is a reasonable equation you've set up, but you're debating against a bunch of whiners who don't know what they're talking about, who've deluded themselves into believing that they can't be wrong.
Personally, I wouldn't quantify what the Wii can do.  Nintendo is, I feel, giving us significantly more than the competition, and they're charging less for it.  Anyone who thinks Wii should be 180 or 200 dollars convinced themselves of that, there's no good reasoning behind it.

[jasonditz]

Of course in the end it's a judgement call... some people don't want Wifi, some people don't want Wii Sports... some people don't want a $60 controller...

I think I might take one of those $80 Gamecubes though

[IceCold]

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Okay, I was posting about this over on CAG and was playing with some numbers...

A lot of people are complaining that the $250 tag on the Wii is way too high

Well. What the hell did you expect?

Hostile's right; the $250 is very fair - the amount of features and potential that the Wii has is a bargain for that price..

[mantidor]

I wouldn't call it a bargain, but its not an unreasonable price.

besides you are using retail prices for wiisports and the controller, but Im sure their production costs are lower (specially for wiisports, that game doesn't look like it needed a high budget), Nintendo might be making more than just $10 for each console.

What Im not sure about is people saying is just a repackaged GC, its a brand new chip that has to be superior to the GC. As far as I know, its not even cheap to try to use old technology, sometimes old technology is even more expensive to produce and much harder to offer support to because it has been discontinued.

[BigJim]

If Nintendo says they're breaking even on hardware, I believe they're breaking even on hardware. To hell with the math or their perceptions. But they are profitting on those controllers. I don't care what they say.


Those $50 Xbox controllers are in the realm of $15 bucks to make and package. The Wiimotes aren't *that* smart to be terribly more expensive than that. $20 is probably not an unreasonable assumption.

The built-in Wifi is a multi-function chip that also handles the Bluetooth. And not having much knowledge of the system to work with (exactly what kind of CPU and GPU horsepower is in there), it's hard to put a quantitive value on its portion of the hardware makeup.  But still, to hell with 'em.

[Arbok]

I think the problem with the price is simply perception. Nintendo never gave a price at E3, and because of that everyone and their uncle begain to speculate. Nintendo did say less than $250, but $200 became the figured price from most after famous examples like: "You could buy a Wii and a Xbox 360 for the price of a PS3" and so on. In a sense, this set the bar down to that level, and then people were dissapointed when it didn't meet that.

It's much like the PSP. Analysts were giving huge figures on what the handheld would cost, and then when it was announced for cheaper those following it actually were impressed with the price due to earlier preception. Was it still way too expensive at launch? Hell yes. But the price tag was overblown leading up to it so people weren't taken back by it.

Anyway, kind of unrelated, but I think Tycho of Penny Arcade put it best about this whole thing:
"I expected the price to come in a little lower than two-fifty, just as I think most people did, but I think they're in a tough position. I'm more than satisfied with the steep, almost treacherous price delta between it and the Xbox 400, and the difference between this product and Sony's offering is so vast that the person presented with this disparity would assume that there had been a grievous misprint in their Sunday circular. The price needs to simultaneously say that "we are not those other guys" while somehow retaining the idea that their machine is the same type of product. Plus, it's not like they have some beleaguered little twist of retail shrapnel here. People want this thing pretty bad. It's hardly extortion."

[GoldenPhoenix]

Well I've realized the price difference between the Xbox 360 core and Wii is more than I thought. Let's face it with xbox 360 you need to at least buy a memory card and a game, that right there jacks the price up 90-100$. With Wii you get EVERYTHING you need to begin playing including a game. So really we are looking at a 140-150$ price difference between the core Xbox 360 system and Wii.  

[King of Twitch]

As fun as it looks I don't think Wii Sports is a $50 game.

Gamecube graphics x2 = $200 + $60 controller + magic + wifi adapter and FREE internetting + wand and wasn't there a stand?? I wonder if that's still in the box  

[KnowsNothing]

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Well I've realized the price difference between the Xbox 360 core and Wii is more than I thought. Let's face it with xbox 360 you need to at least buy a memory card and a game, that right there jacks the price up 90-100$. With Wii you get EVERYTHING you need to begin playing including a game. So really we are looking at a 140-150$ price difference for the between the core Xbox 360 system and Wii.

Yeah, but average joe looks and says "$50 is SO worth being popular" and goes on their merry way.  

Then they get home and cry.  

[Ceric]

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The built-in Wifi is a multi-function chip that also handles the Bluetooth.

Just a side note Mult-function chips are normally expensive.  Well good ones at least.  I know why they used one though.

I think the argument wasn't the cost to produce it was the cost to the consumer.  In which he makes a good point.  I'm fairly sure that a Wii base unit selling at $80 at this point would probably be a lost for Nintendo.  A year from now maybe not.  Sure the WiiPointer is expensive but in every field accessories are marked up and will make a profit.  Be it lawn tractors or electronics.  Accessories go into the want category not the need category.  I don't need another remote to play my Wii.  As I don't need an SD card.  If I want to save then I need an  SD card.  If I want a friend or family member to play with me I need another controller.

It won't stop you from using and maybe enjoying the Wii, in this case, just you probably won't enjoy it as much.  (Lets face it Zelda is suppose to be so long that a marathon through would kill you from sleep deprivation like those people at Internet cafes that die from Evercrack addictions and like.)  Wants are things that you will eventual reach a justification and make it happen.  Sort of like I don't need the Component hook-ups to play the Wii but I want the Component hook-ups to play the Wii and I'll probably get them even if they were $50, the cost of the only set in town for the PS2 (which hurt but I needed them that day.)  

[Infernal Monkey]

The price of the system isn't that bad, it's the bloody controllers that are the real killer. It's not like there'll be cheaper 3rd party ones, either.

[BranDonk Kong]

You know I've never taken the built-in WiFi capabilities into the Wii when thinking about it's price. It's probably a minimum of a $40 value (based on 3rd party products for other consoles, or say a USB, PCI or PMCIA wireless card).

[Nick DiMola]

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Originally posted by: Brandogg
You know I've never taken the built-in WiFi capabilities into the Wii when thinking about it's price. It's probably a minimum of a $40 value (based on 3rd party products for other consoles, or say a USB, PCI or PMCIA wireless card).

I agree, I always forget about the Wifi capabilities and just how HUGE it really is. It will be so nice to not have to run yet another ethernet cable behind my entertainment center. My router as of now is full to the brim and I need to swap cables constantly. I would love to have wifi in the xbox or the 360 but the wifi adaptor for each is around $100. Nintendo probably picked up quite a bit of manufacturing cost by putting that in, but it is very cool of them to do so.

[trip1eX]

Yeah one reason NIntendo put in Wi-Fi is to keep things simple for consumers.

I did a similar analysis of the Wii.  Think of it like you're upgrading your pc.

I don't how many of you have pcgamed, but upgrading is a way of life.  And upgrading your cpu from 2 ghz to 3ghz is something alot of folks do.  That's a 50% speed increase.  Same with the gpu on a pc.  Upgrading your gpu so it's 50% is a major upgrade.  And last, but not least doubling your memory is also major.  And, in essence, that's what we are seeing here with the Wii.

So borrowing heavily from the OP (I actually posted this or a similar write-up a day or two ago on another forum, but not here) we present the new generation.  The ability to upgrade ala carte.  (OK not really.  All upgrades are mandatory, but I think the analog to upgrading or buying a built to order pc are appropriate here.)

Would you pay $79.99 for a new cpu, gpu and memory add-on that gave your 'Cube such speed increases as %05 or more?  .... while knowing that future games will take full advantage of said add-on?  And that these games would be available immediately?  I would.

NOw let's take the controller.  Would you pay $59.99 for a controller add-on knowing that Nintendo and 3rd parties would release countless game titles for it over the years?  FRom what I've read so far I'd have to say that I would.

HOw about WiiSports?  Ok you might not be interested in the game.  But can we agree that it's worth some value?  I think the game too will probably have more depth than folks are expecting.  The analog 3d control certainly means more depth than just pressing a button or two.  And certainly the potential of this is in competing against others.  Anyway let's play it safe and price it at $29.99.

OK you're probably see where I'm going with this (of course you you already know as it's the same thing the OP has done ,) but anyway I'm not stopping there.  

OK NIntendo is whipping their online service  into shape.  For that you're going to need a connection to the internet.  Nintendo is offering a Wi-Fi upgrade for your GameCube.  IT's $29.99.  Are you along for the ride?  Count me in there too.

Next let's say Nintendo offers a a smaller case with stand for your Gamecube. It's the size of 3 DVD cases.   Tiny.  And along with that they give you a new Slot Drive disc player that will accept both GAmecube discs and larger proprietary DVD discs for newer games.  Let's not forget some kewl neon lights?  What's this worth to you?  Would you bite for $10?  I think I would.  Of course you pretty much have too if you're to play some of the new games.  

Ok on to WiiConnect24.  Here's our instant-on sleep mode.  OUr power saving circuitry.  The ability to download while you sleep and receive messages from friends and NIntendo and receive weather updates and who knows what else.  What would you pay for this if you could upgrade your 'Cube?  $10?  

Next how about Free online play along with access to the virtual console and the Wii channels?  Would cough up another one time fee of $10 to access all this?  If you're in for Wi-Fi then you're here I suppose.  $10 it is.

Next let's talk about the internal 512mb flash memory and sd card/usb support.  I'm pricing this at $10. A 512mb flash drive in the store is a good $10 or $20 at least.  SD card support will let you the photo browser and store VC games and updates galore.  Hopefully Nintendo does something with the USB ports.  You don't have to get this upgrade, but then you'd be using GC memory cards which have little storage for a premium price.

How about upgradeable O/S that the Wii has along the sensor bar technology?  Surely that's worth $10.

Another reason the Wii is priced a bit higher than some might think is that it's circuitry has been shrunk down to fit in such a small size.  Over it's lifetime of heavy playing you're likely to realize some power savings that will certainly add up.  Who knows what this be?  I know that Nintendo said something like 20 or 30% energy savings for alot more system processing power.  Of course the always on feature might diminish this a bit, but supposedly it uses very little power while asleep equivalent to a tiny light bulb.

Anyway I'm conveniently getting $250 here.    I don't think I priced these upgrades outrageously tho.  

I think the reason folks think the Wii is a bit over-priced are two fold.

First, when Nintendo said $250 at the most the internet started hoping for $200.  (REally if folks thought $200 was aobut right then throwing in WiiSports and calling it $250 isn't that far off.)

Second, I think the gaming public is just used to getting the same thing only faster.  And thus their immediate reaction is wtf?  I think you really need to see the wiimote as Nintendo's hi-def even if you don't think highly of it right now.  That's where alot of Wii development money went and where alot of Wii manufacturing money is going to.  YOu also need to see that the cost of miniuaturization and more power/watt is hi-tech and is more expensive than not making the same console larger and more power consuming.  

OH there's another reason too.  And that's that Nintendo isn't selling everything at a loss.  I think they need to do that because gaming is their only business.  They can't afford to lose $4 billion or they might get wiped out.  So maybe you pay more upfront relative to cost, but you can see why the competition video games are $10 more.  OR at least one reason they are.  You can see why MS Wi-FI adapters are $100 and their Wavebird-equivalent controllers are $50.  NOt that Nintendo won't do their share of high priced accessories, but I really think $60 for the wiimote and nunchuk is because there's alot of hi-tech stuff in those things.  

OK got a book going.  over and out.

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
The price of the system isn't that bad, it's the bloody controllers that are the real killer. It's not like there'll be cheaper 3rd party ones, either.

You never know... Mad Catz was talking about getting in on that market. I can only hope they do a better job than most third parties though.

[King of Twitch]

I forgot the thing has 4 GC controller ports and 2 memory slots, there's an extra $5. Unless they've taken those out too.

[IceCold]

It's such intricate technology, though, that even if they did it, they would probably have all sorts of issues..

[GoldenPhoenix]

I still think it is a bit unfair to only call Wii a GCx2 or something like that. I'm willing to bet that Nintendo keeps the official specs close to themselves for quite awhile, but with that said some of the games for Wii are looking stunning and do not look like GC 2. Not to mention it seems the vast majority of Wii games are running smoothly with hardly any Framerate hitches, that in itself shows that it has more "power" behind it than GC even with prettier visuals.

[Ian Sane]

I think if had we no indication about what the price was beforehand $250 wouldn't be that expensive.  But Nintendo gave us hints about the price that suggested differently.  They said "under $250" and then set the price to $249.99.  Whenever talks about inferior hardware came up they said that they were trying to lower costs to have a mass market friendly price.  But now we find out they're making a profit on the hardware.  They gave us the impression that we were going to be getting a low price console and we're not.  They let us think of a certain price range because they put it in our head in the first place.  I think the "under $250" comment alone makes them look like total dickheads.

They should have just said nothing and then we would all think $250 is a great affordable price.  It's like how not going online with the Cube wasn't that big of a deal.  The real issue was lying about vague plans that never surfaced.  Making Zelda a cartoon wasn't a big deal, showing completely different looking footage for an entire year beforehand was.

[Donutt007]

They should have just said at E3. "It will cost less then $300" Or maybe something like "You'll be able to buy at least two of them for the price of a PS3" hahaha. Screw it, I'm ok with the price, I do wish they'd make a controller/nunchuk combo for $50, that's my only gripe

[couchmonkey]

Yeah, realisitically the price is fine...it gets a little stickier once you add in the high controller prices, but I think the thing that made everyone go nuts is that Nintendo was kind of pushing this console as value-oriented rather than powerful, and combined with the "no more than $250" comments, a lot of people assumed it would be cheaper than that.

It's like a hockey team says they're going to score more goals next year, and gets a new coach who emphasizes offense plus a couple of promising forwards, only to score just 10 more goals in the new season.

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I think if had we no indication about what the price was beforehand $250 wouldn't be that expensive.  But Nintendo gave us hints about the price that suggested differently.  They said "under $250" and then set the price to $249.99.  Whenever talks about inferior hardware came up they said that they were trying to lower costs to have a mass market friendly price.  But now we find out they're making a profit on the hardware.  They gave us the impression that we were going to be getting a low price console and we're not.  They let us think of a certain price range because they put it in our head in the first place.  I think the "under $250" comment alone makes them look like total dickheads.

They should have just said nothing and then we would all think $250 is a great affordable price.  It's like how not going online with the Cube wasn't that big of a deal.  The real issue was lying about vague plans that never surfaced.  Making Zelda a cartoon wasn't a big deal, showing completely different looking footage for an entire year beforehand was.

Considering how many times lately they've "said" something and then wound up having their fingers crossed, I'm surprised it didn't launch at $299.99 (or $299.98 to beat the core 360).

[Avinash_Tyagi]

The $250 price tag and the launch date are purely in respons to the PS3 torubles Sony has been having, they know thay can get away with it, so they want to make as much profit as they can right out of the gate

[IceCold]

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They should have just said nothing and then we would all think $250 is a great affordable price. It's like how not going online with the Cube wasn't that big of a deal

Well, even if they hadn't said anything, there was a lot of speculation going on.. Unrealistically low figures were being thrown around, and Nintendo couldn't do anything to stop this. After months of reading this speculation, even if Nintendo themselves hadn't said anything, the price would still sting to many..

Also, and correct me if I am wrong on this, but that $250 US ceiling pricepoint didn't come from over here, did it? I thought that Nintendo had a meeting or a conference in Japan, and they set the limit in terms of Yen. Converted to US dollars, it came up to around $250, but that piece of news wasn't directly from North America. And, technically, in Japan it will launch for what is currently $212 US, which is quite a bit lower than $250.

It's like how a hockey franchise says it is going to cut its ticket prices after the lockout, to get fans excited about the coming season after a year where they were severely mistreated. They also say that, since a salary cap has been implemented, it gives them a chance to pass on the savings to the fans. They don't, however, say how much they will drop the prices by. This leads to a lot of speculation and lowball estimates. Before the season starts, the franchise reveals the updated prices; it turns out that they are very good prices (comparatively) which include many perks. However, they aren't as low as many were saying, leading to some discontentment..

GO CANUCKS!