Topic: IMPRESSIONS: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

[TrueNerd]

^ What bad Phantom Hourglass impressions?

Anyways, as I have said before and this and other previews have confirmed, I am simply too curious to try out the Wii's controls with this game and it really doesn't sound like the controls are ruining Zelda in the least. Plus, I'll be able to get it three weeks earlier then if I waited and I can play it in widescreen. Nintendo's ploy has totally worked on me.  

[IceCold]

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^ What bad Phantom Hourglass impressions?

Yeah.. I don't see many either. Here are some quotes..

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Originally posted by: IGN
The brand new control scheme offers a unique experience in the series. It is really intuitive to guide Link around with the stylus and kill enemies by tapping on them. Even people who have never played any Zelda game ever will know what to do after a few minutes with the game

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Originally posted by: GameSpot
Based on what we played, The Legend of Zelda: The Phantom Hourglass is heading in the right direction. The game's mechanics are fresh and work well with the now-familiar visuals. We're curious to see just what's happening in terms of story, as the game is basically a follow-up to the Wind Waker. If the quest in Phantom Hourglass is comparable to the console Zelda adventures, then the DS title will most certainly rock the house

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Originally posted by: Gaming Target
The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, whether you know it or not, has a lot going for it even though it may not look it. It's the first and only Zelda to be all touch-based. This one ought to be something special.

[mantidor]

wow, so it even has good impressions! I saw some dislike for some of the gameplay in other minor sites, I really don't follow the big sites like IGN, Gamespot or Gamespy, I don't trust them very much.

Theres is also Mario and his ambiguously sarcastic hate for the game, and I admit that tainted my view a little.

[Pale]

Phantom Hourglass was great in every aspect except the sword fighting... go figure.

[KDR_11k]

Apropos 11 December, since the Wii comes out thre days before that that won't be the European release date, right? So when will we get TP GC? NoE claims 2006 but I don't trust those wankers.

[Kairon]

TP GC is only scheduled for American launch.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[GoldenPhoenix]

Wait Mantidor, didn't you say before that since the Wii version is being made that Zelda overrall wasn't getting worked on much? So going by that logic then the GC version should be the same as it once was, unless of course Nintendo actually was doing something more than putting in Wii controls. Honestly though I do hate when people become so closed minded to something without even trying it. I have no doubt you would hate the controls no matter how well they were implemented since you've pretty much decided that they will suck and are almost definately going to detract from the overrall experience on both Wii and GC. I say the GC version because you have indicated that Nintendo quit focusing on the overrall game in order to Wiiify it, leaving it unpolished for BOTH systems.

[Svevan]

Well, let's just say Pale's write up is really good news and I'm glad to hear it. Looking forward to the game itself!

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Svevan
Well, let's just say Pale's write up is really good news and I'm glad to hear it. Looking forward to the game itself!

Well I have to agree, when I first heard Zelda TP would have motion based sword fighting, I was alittle concerned but was willing to wait and see (I've found this the best policy for most things, since I would miss out on alot of fun games if I automatically discounted something "unique" without playing it). Now it appears from Pale (along with many others who played it) it works great and is super immersive!  

[TMW]

Huh!  Five minutes ago, I was pretty much going to wait for the GC version, but those impressions have made my resolve break like $2 china.  

FINE.  I'll buy the stupid Wii version.  Are you happy now?

...I have a question. Whatever happened to the cats? Do we still get to rescue the cats?

[KDR_11k]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
TP GC is only scheduled for American launch.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Ah, right, I forgot. There was a story at PGC some time ago that said Europe would get the Wii and GC version in one box.

[stevey]

Isn't it odd that pale was the only one on staff that like E3 zelda controls and is the only staff member that got to nintendo press event and play zelda for over a hour...

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k

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Originally posted by: Kairon
TP GC is only scheduled for American launch.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Ah, right, I forgot. There was a story at PGC some time ago that said Europe would get the Wii and GC version in one box.

Oh, dear. I forgot all about that.... lucky Europeans...

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Pale]

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Originally posted by: stevey
Isn't it odd that pale was the only one on staff that like E3 zelda controls and is the only staff member that got to nintendo press event and play zelda for over a hour...

Hah, interesting theory, but my geographic location (and maybe ability to get the day off) is the only reason I was the one chosen to go.  

[Bloodworth]

What, who said he was the only one that liked it?  I had some slight concerns about some aspects of the E3 controls, but I liked it there.

[AnyoneEB]

Hmm... I was sorta hoping for more direct control of the sword. The OoT/MM engine allows for more control over the sword than Pale describes in the demo, so I assume that the side-to-side and jab moves will not be the only guestures to make it into the final game. (In case you have not gone around destroying signs, OoT's sword moves include horizontal slash, vertical slash, and diagonal slash at least one way.) There's also the question of how/if parrying will be handled. Pale did not mention it, so I assume it was not in the demo.

[Pale]

I just realized i did forget the spin slash.  It remained the same as it was at E3.. circular motion with the nunchuck...

[GoldenPhoenix]

Hey Pale, can you use the nunchuck attachment for your shield? Or is the sword the only thing that uses motion?

[Pale]

Yes and no VG.  When not locked on you just kind of carry your shield so there is no relevant motion control there.

When locked on link holds the shield in front of him if he isn't swinging the sword.  If you lunge the nunchuck forward Link will do a shield attack that creates distance between himself and the enemy.

You can't ever precisely move the shield with the nunchuck though, so don't expect to like, hold it in front of Link's face or down by his knees or anything like that.

[PopeReal]

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Originally posted by: mantidor

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Originally posted by: Artimus

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Originally posted by: mantidor

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Originally posted by: Artimus
Mantidor, you said "I find Metroid controls more intuitive, but not the sword controls." How else am I supposed to respond?

Seriously, though, I haven't seen any comments saying the GCN build is superior to this newest one yet. IGN had positive comments, as did PGC. Where are the negatives?

Theres no recent impressions whatsover about the GC version, Nintendo is trying its hardest to kill it, so of course you aren't going to find any comments saying which version is superior. Not at least until december 11th, when the wii would have moved enough units of the game for Nintendo to not feel threaten by the GC version, I really can't wait for it, so that we have a real one-on-one comparison.

Why would we need updated impressions? It hasn't changed. So I'll ask, again, for you to post negative comments on the current Wii build.

I highly doubt it hasn't changed at all, this is supposed to be a huge game, and whatever they do for the wii version, they have to make something, anything at all for the GC version, any minigame, any puzzle, any combat mechanic has to have a GC counterpart, whatever original idea they create for the remote has to have a GC counterpart. Just because we knew a tiny piece of the GC version 2 years ago doesn't mean theres nothing else to know about it. The gameplay is not a carbon copy of the Wind Waker, OoT or MM, theres new things added.

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Originally posted by: Faithinchaos
Well, theres nothing new to the GCN version, because its still the same. Unchanged. Just like you got in Wind Waker.
From what I've heard its basically not in development anymore, and its game assets are basically frozen.
As for the opinions: Its alright to let them think that everything they know is automatically better than anything new. Nintendo after all is known for screwing franchises up *cough Metroid,* and regularly demonstrates they don't know what they're doing *cough cough DS,* nor should we trust in them our beloved Zelda *cough Wind Waker cough.*

As for me, I'm not sweating it.

Thats the point of disagreement, while some of you consider TP to be new, I and many others don't consider it really new at all. Phantom Hourglass is really new in my eyes, and even with all the bad impressions it has and my many dislikes for some of the decisions they have made regarding the gameplay Im more interested in how it will turn out than how TP will turn out, because PH is a 100% original concept, TP isnt, its an old game with a layout of remote minigames.

Just because they add a new puzzle/element to the Wii version, does not mean they HAVE to add a similar upgrade to the GC version.  In fact I have been under the impression that the Wii version will have unique puzzles not found in the GC version that use the Wiimote to solve them.  

[KnowsNothing]

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Originally posted by: PopeReal

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Originally posted by: mantidor

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Originally posted by: Artimus

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Originally posted by: mantidor

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Originally posted by: Artimus
Mantidor, you said "I find Metroid controls more intuitive, but not the sword controls." How else am I supposed to respond?

Seriously, though, I haven't seen any comments saying the GCN build is superior to this newest one yet. IGN had positive comments, as did PGC. Where are the negatives?

Theres no recent impressions whatsover about the GC version, Nintendo is trying its hardest to kill it, so of course you aren't going to find any comments saying which version is superior. Not at least until december 11th, when the wii would have moved enough units of the game for Nintendo to not feel threaten by the GC version, I really can't wait for it, so that we have a real one-on-one comparison.

Why would we need updated impressions? It hasn't changed. So I'll ask, again, for you to post negative comments on the current Wii build.

I highly doubt it hasn't changed at all, this is supposed to be a huge game, and whatever they do for the wii version, they have to make something, anything at all for the GC version, any minigame, any puzzle, any combat mechanic has to have a GC counterpart, whatever original idea they create for the remote has to have a GC counterpart. Just because we knew a tiny piece of the GC version 2 years ago doesn't mean theres nothing else to know about it. The gameplay is not a carbon copy of the Wind Waker, OoT or MM, theres new things added.

Quote
Originally posted by: Faithinchaos
Well, theres nothing new to the GCN version, because its still the same. Unchanged. Just like you got in Wind Waker.
From what I've heard its basically not in development anymore, and its game assets are basically frozen.
As for the opinions: Its alright to let them think that everything they know is automatically better than anything new. Nintendo after all is known for screwing franchises up *cough Metroid,* and regularly demonstrates they don't know what they're doing *cough cough DS,* nor should we trust in them our beloved Zelda *cough Wind Waker cough.*

As for me, I'm not sweating it.

Thats the point of disagreement, while some of you consider TP to be new, I and many others don't consider it really new at all. Phantom Hourglass is really new in my eyes, and even with all the bad impressions it has and my many dislikes for some of the decisions they have made regarding the gameplay Im more interested in how it will turn out than how TP will turn out, because PH is a 100% original concept, TP isnt, its an old game with a layout of remote minigames.

Just because they add a new puzzle/element to the Wii version, does not mean they HAVE to add a similar upgrade to the GC version.  In fact I have been under the impression that the Wii version will have unique puzzles not found in the GC version that use the Wiimote to solve them.

I just really wanted to uselessly quote that.

[mantidor]

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Originally posted by: KnowsNothing

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Originally posted by: PopeReal

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Originally posted by: mantidor

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Originally posted by: Artimus

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Originally posted by: mantidor

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
Mantidor, you said "I find Metroid controls more intuitive, but not the sword controls." How else am I supposed to respond?

Seriously, though, I haven't seen any comments saying the GCN build is superior to this newest one yet. IGN had positive comments, as did PGC. Where are the negatives?

Theres no recent impressions whatsover about the GC version, Nintendo is trying its hardest to kill it, so of course you aren't going to find any comments saying which version is superior. Not at least until december 11th, when the wii would have moved enough units of the game for Nintendo to not feel threaten by the GC version, I really can't wait for it, so that we have a real one-on-one comparison.

Why would we need updated impressions? It hasn't changed. So I'll ask, again, for you to post negative comments on the current Wii build.

I highly doubt it hasn't changed at all, this is supposed to be a huge game, and whatever they do for the wii version, they have to make something, anything at all for the GC version, any minigame, any puzzle, any combat mechanic has to have a GC counterpart, whatever original idea they create for the remote has to have a GC counterpart. Just because we knew a tiny piece of the GC version 2 years ago doesn't mean theres nothing else to know about it. The gameplay is not a carbon copy of the Wind Waker, OoT or MM, theres new things added.

Quote
Originally posted by: Faithinchaos
Well, theres nothing new to the GCN version, because its still the same. Unchanged. Just like you got in Wind Waker.
From what I've heard its basically not in development anymore, and its game assets are basically frozen.
As for the opinions: Its alright to let them think that everything they know is automatically better than anything new. Nintendo after all is known for screwing franchises up *cough Metroid,* and regularly demonstrates they don't know what they're doing *cough cough DS,* nor should we trust in them our beloved Zelda *cough Wind Waker cough.*

As for me, I'm not sweating it.

Thats the point of disagreement, while some of you consider TP to be new, I and many others don't consider it really new at all. Phantom Hourglass is really new in my eyes, and even with all the bad impressions it has and my many dislikes for some of the decisions they have made regarding the gameplay Im more interested in how it will turn out than how TP will turn out, because PH is a 100% original concept, TP isnt, its an old game with a layout of remote minigames.

Just because they add a new puzzle/element to the Wii version, does not mean they HAVE to add a similar upgrade to the GC version.  In fact I have been under the impression that the Wii version will have unique puzzles not found in the GC version that use the Wiimote to solve them.

I just really wanted to uselessly quote that.

Somehow I missed this, Im going to quote again to make a big quote tree that makes scrolling anoying

Actually it was Miyamoto who said that both versions would be identical in content. Thats why I previously said they have to do everything for both.



But that wasn't really my purpose in this post anyway, I forgot to ask Pale if the dungeons were mirrored as well or not, since they were the same E3 levels you should know, right? Im just curious.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Pale I would love to hear your opinion of what Peer at IGN said here. Some key quotes from his blog are

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But while swiping with the Wiimote is a closer approximation of attacking with a sword than pushing a button, Nintendo oddly stopped short of making it more than just a sparkling innovationy last-minute addition. You see, it doesn't make a difference whether you swipe horizontally or vertically -- which is an odd limitation.

As a matter of fact, quickly wiggling your controller the way you spin into orbit in Mario Galaxy works better than going through motions that resemble Link's actual moves. Given the fact that Link possesses a decent number of different sword attacks in the game already, it's confounding that they're merely strung together as automatic combos.

Nintendo, if you're reading this: let us swipe left and right, diagonally, up and down, stab forward, and perform the downward slam move by physically motioning the wiimote downwards. This is no fighting game, so I don't think we need the sword to exactly mirror the position of the remote -- but swinging the controller from the left to the right and seeing Link do the opposite isn't exactly a good demonstration as to how Wii is supposed to change controls for the better. The initial attraction of having a closer connection to the sword is lost when players discover you didn't map the remote to the sword, but merely the A button to every motion. And if that's what happened, you should've probably let old Link keep his leftie ways and done it via the nunchuck.

He also goes on to whine and complain about how NIntendo should have a variable difficulty which I find to be one fo the stupidest ideas ever.

[Kairon]

Matt, on the contrary, seems to be fine with the controls:

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It works. Indeed, it seems to work just fine. I think people are holding Zelda Wii to a higher standard because your expectations really do change when you pick up the Wii-mote. Zelda has never featured one-to-one sword fighting control. But when you have the Wii-mote in your hand and Link's sword doesn't mimic every subtle gesture you make, you suddenly notice it. You can still do everything you could with the sword in older games, mind you -- and in some ways it even feels better, but obviously people have fixated on what's still not possible.

Also, you need to do a little internal re-wiring to get used to it. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough time with Twilight Princess at Nintendo's New York City event to walk away convinced that the Wii-mote additions will move the control scheme forward. But neither did I walk away convinced that the game was broken. I just needed and wanted more time with everything.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[GoldenPhoenix]

What I find most promising about Matt is when he mentions talking to people who have played the game alot (my guess is that these are testers and such in Nintendo) swear by the controls and say the GC version feels clunky in comparison!