Topic: Steve Irwin "Crocodile Hunter" dead

[Pale]

Can I ban Dasmos for his ass hole avatar?  Srsly.

[UltimatePartyBear]

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Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis
Im sorry man but I think its very wrong to disrespect his death, especially if it was an accident. How would you feel if people disrespected your death just because of what you did what you thought was cool/interesting and died from it, but people mocked your death because of it?

People laugh at other people's deaths all the time.  It may be disrespectful, but it's not unusual.

[UncleBob]

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Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis

Im sorry man but I think its very wrong to disrespect his death, especially if it was an accident. How would you feel if people disrespected your death just because of what you did what you thought was cool/interesting and died from it, but people mocked your death because of it?

Wait, so if some meth-head (who, of course, thinks it's cool/interesting to be doing meth) dies because of the meth usage, we're not allowed to mock his/her death?

[18 Days]

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Originally posted by: Pale
Can I ban Dasmos for his ass hole avatar?  Srsly.

Yes. I give you permission.

[couchmonkey]

That's really unfortunate!

[bustin98]

Just to prove how much of a man he was, he pulled out the barb just before dying.

[KDR_11k]

*waits for a "Steve Irwin Facts" website that is 50% copied from the Chuck Norris Facts to pop up*
*expects next post to contain a link to one*

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: UncleBob

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Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis

Im sorry man but I think its very wrong to disrespect his death, especially if it was an accident. How would you feel if people disrespected your death just because of what you did what you thought was cool/interesting and died from it, but people mocked your death because of it?

Wait, so if some meth-head (who, of course, thinks it's cool/interesting to be doing meth) dies because of the meth usage, we're not allowed to mock his/her death?

That is not a very good comparison, Irwin's main goal was to show that these feared creatures were not as dangerous as people made them out to be. He stressed conservation even for the most "dangerous" of animals, that they too had importance and should not be overly feared by people. Not to mention the fact that his death came from a creature that is normally quite docile, that in itself is tragic because he was killed by one of the least dangerous animals.

P.S. Even a meth heads death is tragic, if not for him/her, but for the family that lost someone.

[Kairon]

Grizzly Man

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[UncleBob]

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Originally posted by: VGrevolution
That is not a very good comparison, Irwin's main goal was to show that these feared creatures were not as dangerous as people made them out to be. He stressed conservation even for the most "dangerous" of animals, that they too had importance and should not be overly feared by people. Not to mention the fact that his death came from a creature that is normally quite docile, that in itself is tragic because he was killed by one of the least dangerous animals.

P.S. Even a meth heads death is tragic, if not for him/her, but for the family that lost someone.

Well, he sure did a good job showing us all how not-dangerious these creatures were.

PS: The family of a meth head will tell you they lost that someone way before the person died.

[GoldenPhoenix]

It still hurts the family regardless, and that is tragedy. Tragedy does not have to unexpected, anytime someone dies and leaves loved ones behind is tragic. With Steve Irwin he left behind a wife and two kids, if that isn't tragic I don't know what is, coupled with the fact that to lose his life from something that is normally safe to be around makes it even worse.

[Bill Aurion]

Mocking death is pretty sick in the first place... =|

(Excellent post by the way, VG, it couldn't have been worded any better...)

[GoldenPhoenix]

It is kind of interesting, I've been researching sting ray deaths and so far can't find how many people have been killed by them. All I read was that it was very rare, and I wouldn't be surprised if more people are killed each year by dogs then a stingray. They seem to think the reason why the stingray stung Irwin was because it may have felt trapped between him and the camera man. Usually they swim away or just do nothing, but this was one of the rare times where it did attack and even rarer it killed someone. I guess the cameraman has swam wth them hundreds of times and was stung once in the foot (where it gets most people).

[decoyman]

Dasmos, UncleBob, your responses to this p!ss me off.

As 18 days, VG and others are saying, being insensitive or disrespectful regarding ANOTHER HUMAN BEING'S DEATH (regardless of the cause), is outright WRONG. No two ways about it, and you better get that in your heads now. There's a difference between an idiot and someone doing something dangerous. If you don't believe this, go tell a military vet or a cop or a fireman that s/he is an idiot, and see what happens. Steve Irwin was a champion of animal rights/respect, and seemed to be a good-hearted, down-to-earth man. He was also very experienced with what he did. I read that he swam over a stingray that was buried in the sand, and it reacted defensively. He wasn't wrestling the thing or some truly idiotic thing like that. His death is a tragic loss, leaving a grieving family, not to mention an important cause, behind. It's not something to be taken lightly, or insensitively, and I'm very disappointed to see some of you who I have always held in very high regard take such a non-chalant attitude about this. I don't care if the death is that of a drug addict or an animal rights activist, what some of you have said is WRONG.

We've all gotten so damn good at dehumanizing events of the most tragic proportions, and some of the responses in this thread are just evidence of what is wrong with the world today. The most current example: Do you know what's going on in Darfur right now? If not, get out from under your rocks and find out. You have no excuses not being informed, instead choosing to live in such comfortable ignorance.

VG: I read earlier today that 17 people since 1969 have been killed by stingrays (can't find the link now, but it was in a news report, CNN maybe?)  

[Sir_Stabbalot]

Using narcotics and risking your life trying to teach people about the creatures of the world and to protect them can't be compared. Meth wastes your life, Steve Irwin's job had him risk it to try to teach people.

(BTW, great post, decoyman)

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Using narcotics and risking your life trying to teach people about the creatures of the world and to protect them can't be compared. Meth wastes your life, Steve Irwin's job had him risk it to try to teach people.

(BTW, great post, decoyman)

I agree that was an amazing post, only 17 dead since 1969? That is amazing, and adds even more tragedy to this freak accident. I'll admit I am not a huge animal rights activist but I respected Irwin ALOT, since he walked the talk. His main goal was to teach people to respect animals and to not be overly fearful which does lead to the killing of animals that are deemed dangerous.  His popularity around the world has opened people's eyes and I do think he managed to achieve much of what he set out to do, it is sad though that it had to end this way. He was an entertaining, informative, and above all else a decent human being that loved his family. It is sad that some people feel the need to demean him or spout insensitive remarks towards him, and like decoy said it is not a good sign for many societies in our world today.

[UncleBob]

First off, I never compared the death of a meth head to that of Mr. Irwin.  I merely made a follow up statement to a comment made eariler in this thread.

There are those who seem to think that all human life is valuable.  What about Osama?  Hitler? What about a man who molests and kills his 6 year daughter - whom he's supposed to love and protect above all else?

Perhaps some of you people need to open your eyes a bit and see that, no, some human life is worth less than others.  Some human life isn't worth anything at all.

As per Mr. Irwin, yes, it's sad for his family.  However, on a day-to-day basis, he repeatdly did things that were dangerous and had a large chance of death or major injury.  He knew that and his family knew that (or, at least, his wife did).  Go ask the spouse of a cop if there's ever a time that he/she thinks his/her wife/husband might not be coming home... I bet you'll hear some interesting stories.  People in a dangerous line of work (and, for the most part, their families) know and understand what they do... and thus, while sad, the outcome of Mr. Irwin's life should not be unexpected.  Things like this and what happened to Roy Horn and Karion's Grizzly Man (assuming he's linking to the story I'm familiar with) all seem to follow a similar pattern...  What's that saying about fooling me once?

[Sir_Stabbalot]

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First off, I never compared the death of a meth head to that of Mr. Irwin.  I merely made a follow up statement to a comment made eariler in this thread.

Ah, now I see.

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There are those who seem to think that all human life is valuable.  What about Osama?  Hitler? What about a man who molests and kills his 6 year daughter - whom he's supposed to love and protect above all else?

Perhaps some of you people need to open your eyes a bit and see that, no, some human life is worth less than others.  Some human life isn't worth anything at all.

Yes, there are evil people in the world, but that doesn't mean that human life is worthless (And honestly, giving them a life sentence without parole is a lot cheaper then the death penalty, as very few inmates are actually executed).

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As per Mr. Irwin, yes, it's sad for his family.  However, on a day-to-day basis, he repeatdly did things that were dangerous and had a large chance of death or major injury.  He knew that and his family knew that (or, at least, his wife did).  Go ask the spouse of a cop if there's ever a time that he/she thinks his/her wife/husband might not be coming home... I bet you'll hear some interesting stories.  People in a dangerous line of work (and, for the most part, their families) know and understand what they do... and thus, while sad, the outcome of Mr. Irwin's life should not be unexpected.  Things like this and what happened to Roy Horn and Karion's Grizzly Man (assuming he's linking to the story I'm familiar with) all seem to follow a similar pattern...  What's that saying about fooling me once?

And this makes mocking someones death acceptable how? Would you make the same " He was an idiot. It was unfortunate, but it was bound to happen one day" statement if a cop was shot?

[Ceric]

*shrug*
I must have missed something.  Personally.  It's a shame he's dead but it's not unexpected.  I also always invisioned a more herioc end for him.  Saving animals from a burning Zoo or Defeating Godzilla.  The man had a lot of repect from me.

Now is all life equal?  At the beginning yes but when the death of the one helps the life of the many it sort of justifies itself and their life is no longer as equal.  I don't remember the robot but even in Isaac Asimov's universe there was a robot who "broke" the 3 laws.  Why?  From my understanding by breaking all the laws it ended up protecting itself and many more people then just its master.  I beleive it became reclusive afterwards.

[IceCold]

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VG: I read earlier today that 17 people since 1969 have been killed by stingrays (can't find the link now, but it was in a news report, CNN maybe?)

I heard it was 17 in the last century..

[UncleBob]

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Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot
Yes, there are evil people in the world, but that doesn't mean that human life is worthless (And honestly, giving them a life sentence without parole is a lot cheaper then the death penalty, as very few inmates are actually executed).

Well, that's only because our flawed legal system...  If executions were done correctly, it'd be cheaper.  But that's politics and such...

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about the worth of some human life.

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And this makes mocking someones death acceptable how? Would you make the same " He was an idiot. It was unfortunate, but it was bound to happen one day" statement if a cop was shot?

So now are *you* comparing what a cop does to the 'croc hunter?  I'm teasing, of course.  But seriously, if there was a cop who continuly poked and jabbed deadly criminals for the entertainment and "education" of others, yeah, I'd have to say something like that.

I guess, above all, we should just be thankful that Mr. Irwin wasn't holding any one month old babies this time around, eh?

[decoyman]

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
There are those who seem to think that all human life is valuable.  What about Osama?  Hitler? What about a man who molests and kills his 6 year daughter - whom he's supposed to love and protect above all else?

Perhaps some of you people need to open your eyes a bit and see that, no, some human life is worth less than others.  Some human life isn't worth anything at all.

But don't you see? It is the very devaluation of human life that CREATES the Hitlers and Osamas and worst criminals of the world. As long as dehumanization is around, it's ok to steal from others, hurt others, mock others, KILL others. Sometimes MANY others. Because, hey, it's not you, it's some ambiguous "them." I don't know "them," they're not important to me. It's a cycle that is impossible to stop until we consciously and intentionally break against it.

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
Wait, so if some meth-head (who, of course, thinks it's cool/interesting to be doing meth) dies because of the meth usage, we're not allowed to mock his/her death?

Let me get back to your original comment that upset me, UB, and it may be where our philosophies part. I don't think it's right to mock anyone's death. To determine a person's value, I prefer to consider not only a person's current works, but their potential for good as well. Hate and, to a lesser extent, apathy or lack of concern for others' well-being, breed the social and cultural disfunction we see in the war-torn Middle East and everywhere else where people haven't "gotten along" for so long that the original reasons for conflict are no longer necessary, or have been forgotten entirely.

But my post dealt with the fact that I believe that a drug addict – a victim of weakness or circumstance or inability to "escape" a bad situation – is not inherently of less value than the "everyman" who goes to work and contributes to society positively. Does the addict or criminal need more help than the "everyman"? YES, undoubtedly. But to say that s/he is of less value, well... I don't believe that for a second. (When do we deem someone irrecoverable? I don't know the answer to that.) If someone strays down the path of drug use or crime and falls into an unhealthy or hurtful lifestyle, but then gets clean/lawful and becomes a positive member of society and is even able to do great things and even steer others away from negative influences, why should they have been considered of less value before? They are the same people, who have overcome their problems, and are all the stronger for it. If that person had been cast away as having been less valuable, then they could never have healed.

Though we've gotten off-topic now, my point was that disrespect was being thrown around regarding this man's death. It's sad. It's not a chance for you to make a funny remark or call him an idiot for doing what he felt was the best way to bring light to the thing he believed most in: animal rights/protection/education. Was it dangerous? Yes, but he was well-trained, and had been doing it all his life; Steve Irwin was as prepared as anyone could have been. Again, he wasn't wrestling the dumb stingray, or poking or jabbing at it for fun. It was a freak accident, and I think the man deserves a little more posthumous respect than he's getting.

[UncleBob]

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Originally posted by: decoyman
Though we've gotten off-topic now, my point was that disrespect was being thrown around regarding this man's death. It's sad. It's not a chance for you to make a funny remark or call him an idiot for doing what he felt was the best way to bring light to the thing he believed most in: animal rights/protection/education. Was it dangerous? Yes, but he was well-trained, and had been doing it all his life; Steve Irwin was as prepared as anyone could have been. Again, he wasn't wrestling the dumb stingray, or poking or jabbing at it for fun. It was a freak accident, and I think the man deserves a little more posthumous respect than he's getting.

First, It's important to note that I never called Mr. Irwin an idiot.

Second, this goes back to what I stated above with cases like Roy Horn and the Grizzly Man - all people who "know what they're doing" and everyone acts surprised when, finally, the deadly, instinct driven animals do what hundreds of years of instinct tell them to do.  There's an old saying, "You can do everything right and still lose."  The idea behind this is that, it doesn't matter how smart you are, how well you know your subject, what precautions you take before and during... there's always going to be some unpredictable part of the equation you cannot account for - where be it a big haired lady in the front row or an unseen sting ray... and when you constantly and repeatedly deal with more and more dangerous unknowns... don't be surprised if you eventually lose.

[Kairon]

... Can we mock Hitler's death?

Personally, I think it's perfectly fine to mock someone's death. Just do it in the right context. Humor is all about timing.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Svevan]

Can we end this discussion please?