Topic: Ode to a Bald Space Marine

[Bill Aurion]

It's fairly rare that I do rant posts, mainly because getting in an angry mood is against my nature!  But I wanted to create a more serious topic for my 10K post, so a rant (though hopefully somewhat humorous) is what you get!

I was first introduced to the world of videogames with the NES back in 1989.  Considering I was only three years old, I don't really remember much (okay, ANY) of the time I spent playing Super Mario Brothers, though I have a feeling I spent a lot of time falling into pits and even possibly running into the very first goomba in World 1-1.  "Hi, Mr. Goomba, how are you today?"  "I am doing quite fine, Mister Mario.  May I warn you that your current momentum and trajectory will cause us to collide?"  "Oh, how careless of me!" *falls off screen in undignified manner*

I received my SNES a few years later, and by this time I was old enough to remember my gameplay experiences.  I recall plugging Super Mario World into the system and becoming instantly enveloped in a vast, colorful world of mystery and excitement!  A cute dinosaur companion?  Cool!  A cape I can fly with?  Wow!  This is the earliest memory I have of gaming, and I cherish it to this day.

By this time, I was not quite yet the Nintendo fan I am today.  In fact, I played my Sega Genesis as much as my SNES!  (Only God knows why...)  Fast forward to 1996.  I recall talking to my dad about the new Sony Playstation, and that's where my gaming life turned around forever.  He brought up that there was a new Nintendo system coming out at the end of the year, the system which would, of course, end up becoming the Nintendo 64.  On September 30th, I picked up my preordered system from Toys R Us, brought it home, plugged in my copy of Super Mario 64, and was completely astounded.  I was moving my beloved Mario around in a three-dimensional world!  I probably spent a good half-hour just running around the princess' front yard, completely in awe.  I also recall long-jumping into a wall multiple times (quite possibly more than 20) because I thought it was funny.  Oh dear...

Anyways, those were good memories.  Or at least, I think they are good memories.   Nostalgia can be a very dangerous thing!  But going back and playing these games reveals that most of these games that I enjoyed as a kid are still enjoyable today...

Now we are entering a new generation of systems once again, but this time around there's a foul stench emitting from it.  This would be the masses of generic games trying their best to be edgy and "realistic."  Sadly enough, this seems to entail having a space marine for the hero......and he's bald......and he's angry for some reason....Did I mention that these heroes are bald?  What is with next generation games and bald space marines?  Is Space Marine Academy that stressful that your hair just falls out!?  Or maybe the aliens ATE their hair!  A MOTIVE!  The space marine is out for revenge because the aliens stole his hair!  Someone write that one down, it'll be a classic someday...

Whenever I go into a topic on a Playstation 3 or 360 game these days, all I see are posts like "Whoa, looks awesome!," "That bump-mapping is the ****!," or "HUR HUR THAT GIRL HAS PERFECTLY ROUND BOOBIES."  Meanwhile, I'm sitting here at my computer shaking my head in disgust.  Do you remember when we played videogames for the gameplay?  Some people don't, and by "some people" I mean the "gamers" that have Final Fantasy [insert number] and/or Metal Gear Solid anywhere near their Top 100 Games.  How am I supposed to play bump-mapping?  How am I supposed to play bloom lighting?  How am I supposed to play polygons in general!?  Sure, visuals can be used to set an atmosphere, but we've already hit the peak of processing power we need to create outstanding environments; just look at games like Wind Waker and Killer7.  Even developers don't know what to do with this new-found processing power found in next-gen systems.   "So the textures are still pretty horrible, and the characters don't really look that great, but hey, we threw in a couple hundred of the same character model!  NEXT GEN AM HERE!"  

Yet another problem in games that appears to be getting worse:  storylines.  By this I don't mean the addition of generic storylines, but the fact that developers feel the need to chuck one in as an excuse to make a shallow game.  Oh sure, your game can have a GREAT storyline, but if the game sucks then what is the point?  All in all you could compare it to watching a movie and having to stab yourself to keep the film rolling.  The story shouldn't have to carry the game, PERIOD.  This is why games like Super Mario Brothers and Donkey Kong Jungle Beat are so great; the developers come up with a "storyline" like "Donkey Kong is off to become King of the jungle" or "Uh oh, Princess Peach was captured (again), better go save her!" so they can concentrate on the actual meat of the game.

Oh, and Aeris dies...

Next: Cost.  There was a time videogames were really expensive.  I recall purchasing Super Mario RPG for $80.  EIGHTY BUCKS!  Thanks to the compact disc, videogames have been at a fair price for this past generation.  Oh, what, not anymore.  Thanks to the "power" of the next generation consoles that are the 360 and PS3, game prices are back on the rise.  As if $60 dollars were bad enough, Kaz Hirai (RIIIIIIIDGE RAAAAACER!) stated in an interview a few months back:

"...generally speaking, over the past twelve years or so, there has been a consumer expectation that disc-based games are maybe $59 on the high end to $39 on the low end. So, what I can say now is, I think it would be a bit of a stretch to think that we could suddenly turn around and say 'PS3 Games now $99.99.'"

What is this crap?  "Our games will not be $100" is hardly comforting when gamers are used to paying HALF that price for the past five years.  It also doesn't help that your console is TWICE the price of your last console.  It also doesn't help that the reason it's that expensive is because you are trying to shoehorn in a bunch of multimedia crap that no one wants.  Oh, and did I mention that Ken Kutaragi believes that they will HOLD their current marketshare, if not INCREASE it?...Hahahahaha...ha...*shakes head*

It also amuses me when characters like ruby_onix pop into a cost discussion, post a picture of Metal Gear Solid 4, and try to argue that a pretty (old man Solid Snake?  Errr, scratch that...) picture is worth selling your house for.  So what separates Metal Gear Solid 4 from Metal Gear Solid 3?  "Ooooo, oooo, I know Bill, pick me, pick me!  The answer is: more cinematics!"  That certainly will be worth paying $600 dollars for, oh boy, can't wait!

So, anyways, I'm pretty tired of ranting.  I anticipate, or rather, hope for developers to take advantage of the possibilities of the Nintendo Wii.  I hope that Nintendo has shown them that story and visuals should step down and allow gameplay to step once again into the forefront.  I hope that I can experience a new form of gaming that is not sticking me in the middle of World War II for the billionth time, or racing down the streets of Tokyo for the billionth time, or leading a bald space marine through an alien ship for the billionth time.  I hope that developers can learn to innovate not only in gameplay, but in art design, which is considerably more important than the number of polygons the team can push.  And I hope that most of you, if you've even read this rant all the way down to here, feel the same way!  ^_^

(Phew, typing out long posts is hard...I don't see how Ian does it... =\ )

[Infernal Monkey]

Because he's a robot and you're not. =) Totally agree with the last minute storylines. They're actually what turned me away from most big name games this generation. If anything, the past few years have regressed back to the state of the Sega CD. Very basic gameplay constantly interupted and overrun with scripted story events barely ever worth paying attention to. Taking the game out of the players control is never an interesting thing unless the game is MEANT to be driven by a powerful storyline. Don't shove this into RACING games or PUZZLE games, what the hell's wrong with these developers? The entire concept of pick up and play was basically destroyed, you simply can't just jump on in and fritter away a few minutes playing a video game, it's not ALLOWED anymore. There's training missions (the instruction book is there for a reason, why am I forced to spend an hour doing this?) There's unskippable intro cutscenes that are merely playing to LIST THE CREDITS like your average Hollywood flick. There's more cutscenes that play during each level, every five steps, more junk to watch. There's crap.

Just how many bald space marine games are we going to see? How long until the consumer gets tired of these and the market falls to bits just like the PC? Fun fact PC developers, eight years of nothing but RTS and FPS games wasn't a brilliant idea.  

[nitsu niflheim]

I'm several years older than you so I know exactly when you are talking about.  I started RPG's with Dragon Warrior, moved to Final Fantasy and then on.  I was lucky enough to not start with FFVII.

Most of today's games (aside from Nintendo's for the most part) are shallow and offer nothing of substance.  When I finish them, if I even finish them, there is nothing about the game that compells me to play it again.

[KDR_11k]

I like how our Mr. "That game has lolis in it, I'll buy it!" complains about graphics overshadowing gameplay.

This is why games like Super Mario Brothers and Donkey Kong Jungle Beat are so great; the developers come up with a "storyline" like "Donkey Kong is off to become King of the jungle" or "Uh oh, Princess Peach was captured (again), better go save her!" so they can concentrate on the actual meat of the game.

"Videogame storylines are like the plot in a porno flick. It's there because people expect it to be there." -John Carmack

What is this crap? "Our games will not be $100" is hardly comforting when gamers are used to paying HALF that price for the past five years.

He sounded like he was exaggerating, meaning they won't simply jack up the prices, if anything they'll try to slowly get the customer used to more expensive games.

[couchmonkey]

Slowly get the customer used to more expensive games...that's always the smart way to raise prices!  (Serious).  Anyway, I mainly agree with Bill.  In fact, while I was reading the rant, I strongly agreed.  Now that I'm done, I have to add that I like plot and movies and all that stuff.  I loved the Final Fantasy games on Super NES because the plot twists kept me really invovled...even if they weren't Hemingway or Steinbeck.  And I love watching the intro movies on all my GameCube games!

Having said that, there has to be something fun about playing the game, and I agree that I want to see fun game experiences above all else.

[Infernal Monkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
"That game has lolis in it, I'll buy it!"

I used to own a game with lollies in it, Zool on SNES. You'd have to collect lollies in the first stage, there were even signs advertising Chupa Chups, good times.

Quote
"Videogame storylines are like the plot in a porno flick. It's there because John Carmack expects it to be there. Remember me guys? No? Come on. I'm John Carmack. I basically invented bald space marine games. Guys. Guys come on. John Carmack." -John Carmack

Fix'd.

[KDR_11k]

I had Zool on the PC.

I think the current game prices are way too high and increasing them isn't going to bring in the casual gamers they want so bad. Movies manage to be profitable at a much lower pricepoint per unit despite costing like ten times as much to make. Making games much cheaper would allow selling more units especially to casuals and cheap gamers (the kind that currently warez games because that's cheaper).

[Ian Sane]

"Is Space Marine Academy that stressful that your hair just falls out!?"

I'm sure the Space Marine corp has their own rules for haircuts like the Army or Navy.

I personally think the worst thing to ever happen to games was the Playstation and its emphasis on making games cool and targetting the mainstream.  I think gaming isn't big enough to truly have mass appeal.  Case in point we don't have too many indy games with a dedicated following.  A couple companies publish everything (because game development is much harder than playing a song or shooting a movie) so if they're too focused on the mainstream then nothing is made that is specialized to the hardcore.  I think gaming had a good balance when it was targetted at kids and geeks because those are two groups that really care about gaming.

But I think that with almost everything in entertainment.  I think things should be made for specific audiences that will really appreciate it.  People get too distracted by money and look at the billions of people that don't buy their product instead of the millions of people that do.  So they try to make something everyone likes and it fails because usually you can't do that.  Sometimes you can make something that almost everyone likes but it's rare.  Usually if something is truly interesting not everyone is going to get it.

[Athrun Zala]

Bill

congrats on being the first PGC user to have 10K posts ^^

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I think the current game prices are way too high and increasing them isn't going to bring in the casual gamers they want so bad. Movies manage to be profitable at a much lower pricepoint per unit despite costing like ten times as much to make. Making games much cheaper would allow selling more units especially to casuals and cheap gamers (the kind that currently warez games because that's cheaper).

very true.
most people over here don't buy original software because it's too expensive, but most would if the price were right (I mean, you can't expect people to pay U$S120 for a game given the economical situation...)

[KnowsNothing]

So this is basically a glorified count-posting thread.

Way to go.

[Bill Aurion]

Quote
"I like how our Mr. "That game has lolis in it, I'll buy it!" complains about graphics overshadowing gameplay."

Ahahaha, nonsense...I don't buy a game JUST because it has lolis...I tend to overexaggerate just how big a factor it is in getting a game...Pangya, for example, is an excellent game, and that's why I can't wait for the Wii version...

Quote
"I think gaming isn't big enough to truly have mass appeal. Case in point we don't have too many indy games with a dedicated following."

As I said, most of what we get are racing games, war games, and FPS Space Marine games...Thank God for publishers like Atlus that bring over the more unique titles...

Quote
"People get too distracted by money and look at the billions of people that don't buy their product instead of the millions of people that do."

This reminds me of yet another problem I forgot to list...Developers follow the latest "fad" in an effort to profit off the original game...For example, the half-dozen pet simulators that tried to profit off the success of Nintendogs...What developers need to do is sit down and at least TRY to come up with something original...You don't know if it'll be popular until you try!

[Smoke39]

Back in my day, our space marines had hair, and we liked it!

[Kairon]

Wow, it's a shock to hear that Ian thinks that the Playstation was the worst thing to happen to gaming. It makes sense, you're completely logical Ian, I get you. But it's still a shock.

I, as a Nintendo fan and game and simulation programming student, am trying to evolve with the industry so that I can be flexible in the workplace and in my art and catch onto new ideas or emergent trends. So I don't think that "entertainment" is ruining videogames. I think that what's ruining videogames is how we're trying to shoe horn entertainment into them.

Quote
"Videogame storylines are like the plot in a porno flick. It's there because people expect it to be there." -John Carmack

This is what I mean. This implies that modern day gameplay is like porn: it does only one thing well, and can't impart anything else. We're just painting a dramatic facade over what is essentially gratuitous sensationalism delivered as per button press.

We're just like that hamster in a cage who has his brain's pleasure center wired to receive a jolt whenever it presses a button. It just presses that button all day long and doesn't eat.

I don't want to paint a dramatic facade. I don't want to make porn. I want to make a Merchant Ivory equivalent for videogames for gosh sakes!!!

*sigh*

I need a life.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[mantidor]

tl; dr



















yes, I lied, I read it, and its probably known that I agree with most points, but I like rubi_onix, I tend to think you have both the same personality *please don't hit me*

[Ian Sane]

"This reminds me of yet another problem I forgot to list...Developers follow the latest "fad" in an effort to profit off the original game...For example, the half-dozen pet simulators that tried to profit off the success of Nintendogs...What developers need to do is sit down and at least TRY to come up with something original...You don't know if it'll be popular until you try!"

Hell, that's everywhere.  Every new fall season tons of TV shows come out that are just a rip-off of whatever new show became popular last year and they pretty much all get canned before a full season.  You see the same thing with movies.  I don't get it because it's not like it works all the time.  Sometimes it does with films and games but I don't think I've ever seen a successful show that was just a rip-off.  If I like something why would I want something that is similar but inferior?  If I want to get Nintendogs then I'm going to buy Nintendogs, not some knock off.  I guess the theory is that if you like the original you'll like the knock-off too?  That kind of assumes we have a lot of free time and money.

[Smoke39]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

Quote
"Videogame storylines are like the plot in a porno flick. It's there because people expect it to be there." -John Carmack

This is what I mean. This implies that modern day gameplay is like porn: it does only one thing well, and can't impart anything else. We're just painting a dramatic facade over what is essentially gratuitous sensationalism delivered as per button press.

We're just like that hamster in a cage who has his brain's pleasure center wired to receive a jolt whenever it presses a button. It just presses that button all day long and doesn't eat.

I don't want to paint a dramatic facade. I don't want to make porn. I want to make a Merchant Ivory equivalent for videogames for gosh sakes!!!

*sigh*

I need a life.

I like both.  I love the brilliant depth of Deus Ex, but at the same time I can also appreciate the raw simplicity of Doom.

[Ian Sane]

With this porno association I think we need to remember that porno films are technically FILMS.  When watching a movie sometimes you want to see a well told story and sometimes you just want to see naked people having sex.  Games are the same way.  Sometimes you want a cool storyline.  Monkey Island would be pretty damn boring without one for example.  But sometimes you just want raw gameplay with only the smallest story to tie things together.  In that case you're really just creating a setting like a porno film may have a basic setting to establish a sexual fantasy.  Something like Contra or Doom needs virtually no story because all you want to do is shoot the f*ck out of stuff.

The problem today is that seemingly every game has to have an RPG quality story.  Final Fight doesn't need little dialogue exchanges with the bosses like it does in the GBA version.  It's just about walking through the city beating the sh!t out of punks.  The little story elements that have been added just take the player away from what they want to be doing.  It's like a porno film having a 20 minute conversation between the man and woman before they started getting it on.  Nuts to that.  It's two minutes of a poorly acted dialogue used merely to establish that they are having sex in a restaurant.  Some games just need "the princess has been kidnapped by alien ninja clowns.  KILL THEM ALL TO SAVE THE PRINCESS AND WIN!!!!"

I'm a pilot and you're the stewardess.  LET'S GET TO SEXING!

I'm a commando with a big gun and you're evil aliens.  LET'S GET TO SHOOTING!

[couchmonkey]

I like this thread!

Ian, you're right of course.  I think a story can help out almost any game if it's well thought-out.  Halo didn't need a story, but the plot is one of it's stronger points, I think.  But yeah, there are a lot of games where it isn't needed, and where it's obvious they didn't put any effort in.  Pac-pix is a really fun game, but the plot is totally assinine.  Help Pac-man fight ghost ink with his magic pen!  What?  The game is about drawing Pac-men to eat ghosts.  The plot puts it in context, but it didn't need any context, it just adds this contrived story to a fun game.  Not that it hurts it much.

Knock-off games (and products in general) - why do companies make them?  It must work once in a while, but it does fail an awful lot.  Perhaps this is why liscences have become so popular recently.  You can sell knock-off videogames if you dress them up with popular characters.  Nah, I think it's the other way around...they know popular liscences sell, so they make a knock-off game because it's easier than thinking.

[Infernal Monkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion

Quote
"People get too distracted by money and look at the billions of people that don't buy their product instead of the millions of people that do."

This reminds me of yet another problem I forgot to list...Developers follow the latest "fad" in an effort to profit off the original game...For example, the half-dozen pet simulators that tried to profit off the success of Nintendogs...What developers need to do is sit down and at least TRY to come up with something original...You don't know if it'll be popular until you try!

Yeah! Nothing's gonna top Sega's Pet Club anyway! I wish developers would go back to trying to one-up eachother with 2D platformer games. Even GBA lacks platformers.

[nitsu niflheim]

post count plus+ via my psp.  

[wandering]

My perspective is "have fun." Having fun means no ranting...Videogames aren't your life, it's a bloody hobby!  

[Bill Aurion]

I'm the only person on this board that uses the ellipsis, so stop copying it...

Hey, wait a second!

[nitsu niflheim]

It's my obsession

[mantidor]

wandering?

[Smoke39]

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
My perspective is "have fun." Having fun means no ranting...Videogames aren't your life, it's a bloody hobby!

Video games practically are my life. ):