Author Topic: POLL: When's the Wii launch date? (Read 57957 times)

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #100 on:** August 02, 2006, 04:08:15 PM »

Wait why wouldn't the Wii be a potential hardcore gamer system? I see no reason why it cannot be a system for gamers of all kinds, especially if it does well and gets more 3rd party games.

Kairon · « **Reply #101 on:** August 02, 2006, 04:31:18 PM »

Well, if you have to bet on only ONE system and you like ONLY hardcore games, the XBox 360 would be your best choice.

But that doesn't mean you can't change your mind and buy a Wii for cheap the next year though!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #102 on:** August 02, 2006, 04:58:40 PM »

hardcore is such a broken word.

games aren't hardcore, it's the gamers.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #103 on:** August 02, 2006, 05:04:39 PM »

What would a hardcore game be defined as? A post apocalyptic world with lots of guns and blood?

Blue Plant · « **Reply #104 on:** August 02, 2006, 05:06:41 PM »

Don't forget the mall zombies!

JonLeung · « **Reply #105 on:** August 02, 2006, 05:07:10 PM »

I think it's plenty hardcore to spend hundreds of hours (literally, in some cases) to catch and train all the Pokémon there are.

It's not very hardcore to go with the flow of what everyone else your age group does and like Halo just for the sake of being cool.

Kairon · « **Reply #106 on:** August 02, 2006, 05:53:28 PM »

Nononono. You guys are talking about the real, deep, HARDCORE hardcore. What's meant by "hardcore" in the current context is idiotic, poser hardcore, not the same thing at all.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #107 on:** August 02, 2006, 06:56:46 PM »

Let me reiterate my scattered arguments again:

Sony will, without question, out-advertise Nintendo
Sony is going to go all-out for this one, considering that they've placed all their eggs in the basket that is the PS3. To them, it's not a console but their most popular brand name they own which is going to be used to push their new proprietary media format into the marketplace. Sony is banking everything on the success of BluRay. Without question, they will out advertise Nintendo.

People on the fence will be tempted to buy the Wii
A lot of fans are angry at Sony for what they're doing right now, but they're willing to bite their lips and buy the damn thing for the promise of MGS and FF somewhere down the line.

As far as I'm concerned, these scorned fanboys are cash piñatas waiting to be whacked open by Nintendo. If they've set aside enough money that they could afford a PS3 AND games AND accessories, then the temptation to pick up a Wii with a pile of games will be immense, considering that they'll be able to buy so many more games for the Wii for the same amount of money.

And what isn't hardcore about the Wii? It'll be launching with two of the most renown hardcore franchises at the helm: Metroid and Zelda, the two franchises which were the responsible for selling the mainstay of GCs (and I mean the SW2K demo of Zelda as well). To accompany that, we have platforming from Rayman, an insanely innovative FPS from Red Steel, Madden with controls where you make gestures instead of pressing buttons and quite a few others including FF, DQ and Wario Ware, and there are PLENTY more in the coming months.

My prediction: after people try the Wii for FPSs, they'll likely find controller FPSs to be dated and clunky. The Wii will be the new hardcore console.

The Nintendo Virus
Since Nintendo's advertising has been inadequate, they've relied heavily upon word of mouth and trial to push their products into the market. Every additional day the Wii is out ahead of the PS3 is one more day that potential PS3 buyers will have to try the Wii and be swayed.

Nintendo won't beat Sony by out advertising them, but every additional Wii in the field is one more which will be busily converting potential buyers and spreading like a gospel. I've seen it happen with the DS and it will happen with the Wii.

The best advertising is always word of mouth and Nintendo's latest innovations definitely have that edge.

Kairon · « **Reply #108 on:** August 02, 2006, 07:21:55 PM »

If we assume (as we safely can) that both the Wii and the PS3 will sell out during the holidays anyways, then the only factors pushing for launch dates are whether you're ready or not, and whether you believe that launching early allows you not to sell consoles, but to win mindshare.

*shrug*

Oh, and falafelkid is guessing Nov. 10 - 16 as the launch week.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Ceric · « **Reply #109 on:** August 02, 2006, 07:52:28 PM »

You know I considered myself a "Hardcore" gamer. I spent most of my childhood playing games and everyone can tell how much I'm here. But I've come to the realization that a "Hardcore" gamer is know more of a Jock type person and aren't interested in what us older "Hardcore" gamers like. So I'm declaring myself "OldCore".

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #110 on:** August 02, 2006, 07:53:44 PM »

Hardtime Longcore is where it's at.

IceCold · « **Reply #111 on:** August 02, 2006, 08:48:27 PM »

Quote
By launching a month in advance it gives everyone plenty of time to be 'bored' of wii and get hyped about PS3 for christmas.

But I thought you said Nintendo didn't care about Sony? If so, they wouldn't be worried if someone has already bought their console, but is thinking of getting a PS3. That would be their second console theory..

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #112 on:** August 02, 2006, 09:10:40 PM »

Smash, those are some great points, though I think launch is important. I don't doubt both systems will sell out, and that is great, but what about the games? That is where launches become most important, and that is how much people are willing to spend on games. If the Wii and PS3 launch fairly close to each other game sales will be more split than if they were released a month apart. For my personal gain, I hope they both launch fairly far apart so I can get more money out of the "late" comers when I sell systems on ebay lol.

In regards to "Hardcore" I've always viewed that term as now meaning "mainstream", a hardcore gamers seems to be a person that buys all the hot new games. I'm in the same boat as Ceric, I've been playing games for quite awhile, and now days I don't have enough time to put much into a game (though if you hand me a new Mario or Zelda game I will FIND it). Every generation I've gotten the major systems, and I don't plan this generation to be any different (i'm rebuying a Xbox 360 for Dead Rising soon). I would think that would classify me as a true "hardcore" gamer"

BigJim · « **Reply #113 on:** August 03, 2006, 12:45:47 AM »

"Hardcore" takes on many meanings nowadays. There are hardcore Nintendo fans, but there are also hardcore "mature" game fans. Hardcore games pushing a bazillion shaders and pixels per second, etc. There are also hardcore genre-specific players like RPGers, etc.

Hardcore can also mean mainstream, but Nintendo's "everybody games" approach is to make all their games mainstream. Not everybody would call Mario or Nintendogs hardcore games, depending on what they think "hardcore" means. I wouldn't

What I meant by "hardcore" was the mature/western definition. Some people dismiss mature games as "immature" because they're "bloodfests" or whatever, but I consider games like Half Life 2 to be excellent. I know we can point to Red Steel, but there's no telling how that game will turn out yet in comparison, if it begins any trends, or how well the Wii will adopt those types of titles in the long term.

GameCube tanked in mature genres, for example, with only occasional token big releases. If Wii's long term lineup starts to look like GameCube's, then that is what I mean by hardcore gamers (by my definition) not being satisfied with just the Wii. They're not targetting the same players that 360 and PS3 are. So I don't think those players could expect a fully satisfactory lineup (to them) that'd convince them to switch outright. It is, afterall, supposed to be the second system.

JonLeung · « **Reply #114 on:** August 03, 2006, 04:54:13 AM »

Nintendo honestly doesn't want it to be a "second system" except to those who already decided they'd buy a PS3 or Xbox 360. Heck, it could be a "third system" or "fourth system" or even more if someone gets both other consoles and still plays an older one, or includes handhelds or PCs.

But let's not confuse "second" with "second-place". There's a distinct difference. Nintendo will use their place as "second" to come in first-place.

(It reminds me of an old Archie comic where Betty, Veronica, and three other girls were in a beauty pageant with their boyfriends as the judges. They all gave their own girlfriend two points, but for the remaining one point they had to give out, they didn't want to give it to any other girl who they suspected would be getting two points from their boyfriend. So they gave their second place choice to Big Ethel, who, because she got everyone's extra point, ended up winning.)

As has been discussed umpteen times before, the logic that Nintendo fans would buy a Wii and that other console fans would also consider getting a Wii would make the Wii have the largest userbase. I would think that that would entice many game developers to make games of all genres on the Wii - and even though they aren't high-def, uber-powerful, etc., the variety (and the controller and other things like lower development costs may allow for more variety than ever before) will eventually ensure that most kinds of so-called "hardcore" games - whether you define that as being "mature", or certain genres like RPGs or FPSes, will eventually be made. Based on possible sales and number of games, think it'll stay "second" for long?

If your definition of "hardcore" is strictly about power and that's what you want, get a powerful PC, with video and audio output to your high-def TV and surround-sound setup. I could actually do that, I simply have to move my PC into the living room, but I'll stick with being hardcore by catching all the Pokémon, thank you very much.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #115 on:** August 03, 2006, 05:55:41 AM »

Perhaps the word I'm looking for is "mainstream", and even by that I mean what's considered "cool" at the time and is most likely to be considered socially acceptable.

In this case, the Wii definitely wins. Once you've used the Wiimote to drive a sword into the chest of an enemy, pushing a button to do so just won't cut it (no pun intended).

If I wanted, I could happily laugh at fans of the other consoles, saying things like, "Oh, you still do that ghey button pushing sh*t?"

couchmonkey · « **Reply #116 on:** August 03, 2006, 06:55:34 AM »

My definition of hardcore gamers is us. Anyone regularly posting on a video game message board is a hardcore gamer. Anyone who reads IGN every day is hardcore. Anyone who runs a gaming website is hardcore. Anyone who knows the details of backwards compatability for any of the three next-gen consoles is hardcore. There are lots of groups within the hardcore but I prefer not to narrow down my definition to an overly small group.

I think that in that group, there may be many that prefer Wii to the other consoles. As a hardcore gamer myself, I think Nintendo's direction is far more interesting than Microsoft or Sony's. I want new types of games, and I'm willing to go the extra mile to buy games that are unique. So far I haven't seen much that counts as unique on Xbox 360 or PS3. The most unique game concept on Xbox 360 is probably one of the cheapo Live Arcade titles.

If the lineup starts looking like GameCube's, then Nintendo may have some trouble, but I think that's a big assumption. I can see the system continuing down Nintendo's old "family friendly path", which will probably disappoint certain hardcore factions, but at this early point it looks like the system might have a larger, more diverse lineup than the GameCube. In my opinion, that matters more than having mature games, but I'm "Nintendocore", so I'm biased.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #117 on:** August 03, 2006, 10:08:22 AM »

I still feel that mainstream applies to what is more commonly pushed or accepted in society, Nintendo is no longer a mainstream company, it is Sony and MS that have taken that crown. You will hear much more about a new Halo, GTA, Half-Life or God of War than any Nintendo game. Basically let's think of this as movies, are you really a hardcore movie goer if you basically only see the popular movies? No you aren't, you are going with the rest of the flow and not expanding your horizons.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #118 on:** August 03, 2006, 12:30:32 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
I still feel that mainstream applies to what is more commonly pushed or accepted in society, Nintendo is no longer a mainstream company, it is Sony and MS that have taken that crown. You will hear much more about a new Halo, GTA, Half-Life or God of War than any Nintendo game. Basically let's think of this as movies, are you really a hardcore movie goer if you basically only see the popular movies? No you aren't, you are going with the rest of the flow and not expanding your horizons.

Were we talking the GC, I'd agree, but the DS has completely turned that image around.

Nintendo has done a supreme job of placing the DS in hands which have never held a portable console before and likely never would. If they can do the same with the Wii, you better believe it will be far more mainstream than its competitors.

WalkingTheCow · « **Reply #119 on:** August 03, 2006, 01:00:47 PM »

Funny first post, I know.

I think Couchmonkey nailed it. Hardcore gamers don't necessarily play one particular style of game. It's a broad term used to define those who have a keen interest and knowledge of games. Or at least that's the good explanation.

I'v seen it used now as describing those who play a specific type of game. . . which is largely shooters and/or M rated games. Ghost Recon, Half Life, Halo or indeed, Grand Theft Auto.It seems to me like a simple misuse of a term. A truly hardcore gamer is musch more likely to be jumping from Ico to Zelda to Oblivion to Animal Crossing and to that same Ghost Recon game.

As far as the actual thread topic goes, I of course have no more clue than any of us but I will say that I believe late October to be the best time possible. I believe it'd almost be better to not launch a month or more before the PS3 because that gives enough time for hype to die down and for the PS3 to get a chance to dominate the community's thoughts.

I'm WalkingTheCow by the way. Been lurking for a long while.

Peace.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #120 on:** August 03, 2006, 01:59:43 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: WalkingTheCow
As far as the actual thread topic goes, I of course have no more clue than any of us but I will say that I believe late October to be the best time possible. I believe it'd almost be better to not launch a month or more before the PS3 because that gives enough time for hype to die down and for the PS3 to get a chance to dominate the community's thoughts.

What makes you say late Oct? (I agree that it would be a good time)

As for hype, the PS3 is going to be advertised like crazy.

Like I said, this is Sony's do or die console. Either they sell PS3s or Sony will have a questionable financial future, to put it lightly.

For that reason, I think launching the Wii ahead of the PS3 hype is a sound strategy. Like I also said, the Wii sells itself better through word of mouth and trial. Every Wii sold will be one more Wii out there swaying the family and friends to consider one for themselves.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #121 on:** August 03, 2006, 03:17:14 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution
I still feel that mainstream applies to what is more commonly pushed or accepted in society, Nintendo is no longer a mainstream company, it is Sony and MS that have taken that crown. You will hear much more about a new Halo, GTA, Half-Life or God of War than any Nintendo game. Basically let's think of this as movies, are you really a hardcore movie goer if you basically only see the popular movies? No you aren't, you are going with the rest of the flow and not expanding your horizons.

Were we talking the GC, I'd agree, but the DS has completely turned that image around.

Nintendo has done a supreme job of placing the DS in hands which have never held a portable console before and likely never would. If they can do the same with the Wii, you better believe it will be far more mainstream than its competitors.

I am forced to agree, I was mainly referencing GC (and even N64 before it) since I tend to separate console images from handheld since they are different markets. When it comes to consoles the big games are still the ones I listed, but who knows, that may change with Wii!

IceCold · « **Reply #122 on:** August 03, 2006, 03:31:53 PM »

Welcome Cow! You can check in in the Newbie thread - you seem like a nice guy, and I hope you stay for a while..

Ceric · « **Reply #123 on:** August 03, 2006, 06:10:07 PM »

Welcome Cow. I will also say that I'm glad I'm not paranoid.... Hey are you looking at me o.O

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #124 on:** August 03, 2006, 08:44:46 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: WalkingTheCow
Funny first post, I know.

I think Couchmonkey nailed it. Hardcore gamers don't necessarily play one particular style of game. It's a broad term used to define those who have a keen interest and knowledge of games. Or at least that's the good explanation.

I'v seen it used now as describing those who play a specific type of game. . . which is largely shooters and/or M rated games. Ghost Recon, Half Life, Halo or indeed, Grand Theft Auto.It seems to me like a simple misuse of a term. A truly hardcore gamer is musch more likely to be jumping from Ico to Zelda to Oblivion to Animal Crossing and to that same Ghost Recon game.

As far as the actual thread topic goes, I of course have no more clue than any of us but I will say that I believe late October to be the best time possible. I believe it'd almost be better to not launch a month or more before the PS3 because that gives enough time for hype to die down and for the PS3 to get a chance to dominate the community's thoughts.

I'm WalkingTheCow by the way. Been lurking for a long while.

Peace.

Go away no one likes you, hehe j/k. You made some good points, I have always always figured a hardcore gamer is someone that doesn't care about image or what is popular but plays a variety of things, as you stated! Hope to see you around.

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Author Topic: POLL: When's the Wii launch date? (Read 57957 times)