Topic: Sports for the Wii??

[raptorspike]

Now, before I start, I am not going to talk about Wii Sports. But does anyone else think that the new controller and the addition of online abilities will bring sports games from EA and 2K back to Nintendo? I would love to see NCAA 07/08 football, NHL, NASCAR, MLB, or Lacrosse. Does anyone else think this is a distinct possibility or just wishful thinking on my behalf?

[Ceric]

It all hinges on Madden.  If Madden does crazy well.  All those franchises will be on the Wii full force.  If EA finds out that people are willing to double dip, buy a Wii version and the 360/PS3 version, then all of the other sports will come.  If EA makes a big presence then 2k will.  So in the end of Madden flops nope it ain't gonna happen.  If it does great then it we'll get them all by I say the third gen.  If it does well we'll get Madden and maybe Fifa(?), the soccer one, for the rest of the world.

[thejeek]

I find the idea of sports games on consoles (or PCs for that matter) really odd. What is the appeal in playing a simulation of something that you could simply go outside and do for real? If companies develop sports games for the Wii then that would just a wasted oppotunity - I'd rather talented people spent the effort creating games that allowed me to experience something I can't do any other way. Preferably something more imaginitive than over muscled idiots engaging in a mock war over the motion of a mis-shapen lump of leather up and down a muddy field...

[Ceric]

ah ha-  The fields not muddy... *twiddles thumbs*  Seriously its for the people who could never get that many people together to play or that simply can't.

[slacker]

As much as the Wiimote opens up new game play possibilities in other type of games, I just don't see it as being a great instrutment for traditional sports game, with the exception of football, tennis, baseball, and golf. I'm not 100% confident that the Wiimote will translate well to basketball. Also, in baseball, the controller is obviously intuitive with swinging the bat, but what about pitching and fielding? I just can't seem to imagine how the controller will be use for that purpose. In basketball, I can see the controller excel at defense, but on the offensive side of the ball, I don't see it provide the magic that you would expect. As for soccer, I don't see the controllers being used beyond shooting the ball. In my opinion, I don't see a lot of sports games on the Wii that will be good. It will be more of a hit or a miss if developers use the Wiimote. In certain type of sports game, the experience will be revolutionary, in other games, it will be more of a sparkling innovation.  With this in mind, I think Nintendo should definitely include the traditional controller as part of its package.  Without it, we will be missing out on some potential hits that are just more suitable to the traditional controllers.  In the end, I think the Wii will have a crap load of sports title that would heavily benefit from the use of the Wiimote, and that would be football, baseball, tennis, and golf. I don't think basketball and soccer will be abundant. Basketball will probably get better later in the Wii's life, but I expect early titles to be sparkling innovationy and probably a bit frustrating.

If Madden fails to get traction, I don't think the Wii will have a drought of sports title as other publishers will come up with their own unique approach. I think in the beginning, I would think that a lot of sports title will either fail to impress because of ackward usage of the controller. The games will be better with each iteration as developers learn what works and what doesn't through trial and error.  I think sports title on the Wii will get very good in the second half of the Wii's life.  

[thejeek]

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Seriously its for the people who could never get that many people together to play or that simply can't.

I suppose so but it seems like a poor substitute to me: there's no physical effort or team spirit involved and while playing video games requires physical and mental skills they're not the same skills as the sport being substituted.

As a personal example, I go sailing and I play video games. I have tried playing Virtual Skipper (a sailing simulator) but although the game mechanics are modelled on sailing, the game has no real connection with sailing as a physical excercise - there's no danger, no exposure to the elements, no physical exhertion. The result is a game that is utterly dull. I'd rather play a really good video game, like say Super Monkey Ball, which makes no pretenses to being a substitute for a pursuit in the real world. Instead it has it's own rules that fit the medium it's designed for - it's an absolute masterpiece of games design that isn't ashamed to exist only in it's own virtual bubble where the game is played for it's own sake.

[EDIT: attempt to beat rambling sentence into shape]

[Ceric]

I can agree with that.  That is one of the reasons I tend to not play sports titles.

[WindyMan]

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Originally posted by: slacker
I'm not 100% confident that the Wiimote will translate well to basketball.  Also, in baseball, the controller is obviously intuitive with swinging the bat, but what about pitching and fielding? I just can't seem to imagine how the controller will be use for that purpose. In basketball, I can see the controller excel at defense, but on the offensive side of the ball, I don't see it provide the magic that you would expect.

I think EA Canada has got the controller basis for all sports figured out with how kicking works in Madden Wii.  The upward swing to simulate a kick is alright by itself, but then adding in the controller's level to compensate for ball slice (crooked controller means crooked kick) is sheer brilliance.  It would be easy to apply that to basketball and baseball.

Basketball could be done with the Wii remote in the following manner: For passing, hold down the A button flick the controller in the general direction of who you want to pass it to; i.e., flick upwards for a pass to someone above you on the court (TV camera angle).  Harder flick means faster pass.  Shooting would be done by "shooting" the Wii remote controller, overhead like a real basketball.  Keeping the remote straight and level as you stroke it would mean a straighter shot, and could in fact be the most realistic free-throw test.  Spins and crossovers and such can be handled by nunchuck and remote accelerometers like how jukes and stiffarms work in Madden.

Pitching in baseball would work by the same principle.  Harder "throws" mean faster pitches, but if the controller isn't held level as you do it, the ball will not go where you want it to.  Curves and other breaking pitches can be done by deliberately twisting the controller just as you fling it forward.  More twist means more curve, but you'd need to time it correctly or risk hanging it over the plate.  Fielding would be as simple as selecting the base you want to throw it to (D-Pad on the remote) and flinging the controller.  Someone might even be able to do a full-featured baseball title without using the nunchuaku attachment, or at least make the option available.  

[IceCold]

I'm really interested to see how the hockey games will turn out for Wii - hopefully they have a group working on that exclusively. Also, 2K sports recently started supporting the GameCube after ignoring it for so long, so I have hope for the Wii..

[thejeek]

Have we seen any Wii game yet where the controller movement is a direct analog of an on-screen action? I mean where the character's hand (for example) literally follows the controller's path, rather than the player performing an iconic controller movement that then triggers a canned action on screen?

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: thejeek
Have we seen any Wii game yet where the controller movement is a direct analog of an on-screen action? I mean where the character's hand (for example) literally follows the controller's path, rather than the player performing an iconic controller movement that then triggers a canned action on screen?

I seem to remember reading that they tried that with Red Steel but it didn't work as well as they originally thought. It definately is possible, but whether or not it is best for gameplay remains to be seen. Then again Ubi has hinted that Red Steel's multiplayer will involve fighting with each other both on and off screen, so perhaps it was implemented in that mode.  

[thejeek]

I'm concerned that without some real direct control, the wiimote risks becoming nothing but a fancy lightgun/mouse - in terms of how it is actually used in practice - and that would be a waste of a really neat piece of technology.

I don't want to draw symbols in the air and then have the game regurgitate a recorded movement in response - I want the in game movement to directly follow the movements I make with the controller. I think that sports games perhaps the place where a direct style of control stands the best chance of working out and also that it might be the best way to really convey some of the physical feel of a sport to the player - this might liberate sports games from where they are currently, which I see as a gaming evolutionary dead end of sorts.

[SixthAngel]

I don't think real direct control would work well for sports games.  Instead it should work like it does now, you make a throwing motion and the ball is thrown at the same time.  It is just like you threw it, there are no drawing symbols.  Red Steel is the same way, if you slash one direction the game approximates your direction into its own slash making it seem like not only are you holding the sword but you actually know how to use it.

Since you are holding a wiimote and not a football the QB would look like an absolute retard throwing the way you do, also I imagine many people don't play football or throw right which would make the game look very awkward.

100% direct control has merit in some games but in others it just wouldn't work very well.