Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[Kytim89]

I will hold onto my assumption that Retro is developing a new Star Fox game for Wii U until I see what they are actually making and it is revealed at E3.

[Dasmos]

well, Retro would probably make the best version of Star Fox yet

How do you figure? I mean, they didn't make the best version of Metroid (Super Metroid) and they didn't make the best version of Donkey Kong (DK: Jungle Beat). I am confident Retro could make a great Star Fox game, but it would have to be pretty gosh darn amazing to be better than Lylat Wars.

[TJ Spyke]

Retro did make the best Metroid game (Metroid Prime), though I didn't play DKCR. I am sure they could make the best Star Fox too.

[Kytim89]

well, Retro would probably make the best version of Star Fox yet

How do you figure? I mean, they didn't make the best version of Metroid (Super Metroid) and they didn't make the best version of Donkey Kong (DK: Jungle Beat). I am confident Retro could make a great Star Fox game, but it would have to be pretty gosh darn amazing to be better than Lylat Wars.

Retro Studios helped revitalize the Metroid and Donkey Kong Country series, so why can't they do the same for the Star Fox series? Both the DKC and Metroid series had great interations of their series follwed by some what lackluster sequels that put their series fututre into doubt. If it wasn't a sequel that failed to please attentive fans then the series just faded from the lime light in some manner. The latter happened to the Metroid series and until Retro made the Prime series Nintendo had no interest in maintaining Metroid, or atleast deliverying a true successor to Super Metroid. Look at what happened with Other M. It seems from the way people talk that no new Metroid game will be welcome unless it is developed by Retro themselves. I mentioned this before, but a Retro developed Star Fox game would combined the graphical quality that Retro made with the Prime series and then marry it to the cartoonish and light heatedness (and diffculty) of Donkey Kong Country Return.

[Dasmos]

Yeah, I am very aware of what Retro has done with Metroid and I am also aware that they also made the only worthwhile entry in the DKC series, but that's not what my post was about. Read it again.

I don't disagree with anything in your post, mate.

[Kytim89]

Yeah, I am very aware of what Retro has done with Metroid and I am also aware that they also made the only worthwhile entry in the DKC series, but that's not what my post was about. Read it again.

I don't disagree with anything in your post, mate.

I mean Q Games could make a decent Star Fox game, but to truelly make the series cerdible again it needs to be deloped by Retro themselves.

[Chozo Ghost]

What if this rumored Star Fox game in question is actually Star Fox Adventures II? Would everyone's excitement evaporate?

[broodwars]

What if this rumored Star Fox game in question is actually Star Fox Adventures II? Would everyone's excitement evaporate?

No, not really.  Retro actually has the talent that Rare lacked to make a good Star Fox Adventures game.  Besides, I'd said it before and I'll say it again: Star Fox can't remain a rail shooter if Nintendo hopes to make it a major franchise again.  It's too limited a format, and a modern Star Fox game needs more variety in gameplay experiences (as well as a decent running time).  That just hasn't been done well up until now.

[Dasmos]

Yeah, I am very aware of what Retro has done with Metroid and I am also aware that they also made the only worthwhile entry in the DKC series, but that's not what my post was about. Read it again.

I don't disagree with anything in your post, mate.

I mean Q Games could make a decent Star Fox game, but to truelly make the series cerdible again it needs to be deloped by Retro themselves.

Okay, now you're talking out your ass (maybe that's why your spelling is so atrocious). Retro would do a fine job, I'm sure, but they're not the only ones who would be able to. All Star Fox needs is to be made a higher priority within Nintendo. This could be giving it back solely to EAD to develop or giving greater support to any other developer who takes it on, whether they are Nintendo-owned or not.

[Caterkiller]

well, Retro would probably make the best version of Star Fox yet

How do you figure? I mean, they didn't make the best version of Metroid (Super Metroid) and they didn't make the best version of Donkey Kong (DK: Jungle Beat). I am confident Retro could make a great Star Fox game, but it would have to be pretty gosh darn amazing to be better than Lylat Wars.

Well that's your opinion. I say the best Metroid is Prime 1, and the best Donkey Kong is Returns. I loved Jungle Beat to death but Returns just barely beats it out for me. So yeah, Retro could make the best Star Fox ever!

[NWR_insanolord]

I really need to play Jungle Beat.

[TJ Spyke]

Make sure to play it with the DK Bongos, makes it a lot of fun.

[broodwars]

Whenever people call Super Metroid the "superior game" over Metroid Prime, I have to ask a simple question: if that is true, then why do the sales not show that?  Why did Metroid Prime dramatically out-sell it on a platform with a dramatically smaller user base?  Just food for thought there.  As for me, I didn't like the Metroid series until Metroid Prime, so I easily find Retro's work on the franchise the superior product.  As for Donkey Kong Country Returns, there are things I like better about the original games (the lack of forced motion controls & a much more manageable difficulty level) and things I like better about Retro's game (the level design, animation, art style, etc.).  In the end, I think Retro's work is on par with the original DKC games.

[NWR_insanolord]

Yeah, I had the NPC version, then sold it without playing it in favor of picking up the GameCube version. Funny thing is I've owned the bongos since the beginning, as my sister got Donkey Konga back when it came out, so it's pretty shameful that I still have yet to play what seems to be unquestionably the best thing ever done with them.


EDIT: Broodwars, I really don't think you want to set the precedent that you think sales=quality.

[nickmitch]

I really need to play Jungle Beat.

Only if you want your life to have meaning. :

What if this rumored Star Fox game in question is actually Star Fox Adventures II? Would everyone's excitement evaporate?

I'd rather it be a better mix of SFAdventures and SF64 than a straight sequel to SFA, but I still would be excited. Retro has a great track record and hasn't failed to impress me yet.

[Chozo Ghost]

Whenever people call Super Metroid the "superior game" over Metroid Prime, I have to ask a simple question: if that is true, then why did relatively no one buy it?

I bought it. But in answer to your question, I don't think its fair to compare the sales of games on modern (or relatively modern) systems to sales of games on systems from 20 years ago. The reason is because the gaming market has grown since then and continues to grow so now its easier for games to hit the 1 million+ sales milestone. The further back in time you go the fewer and fewer games there are which hit that many sales.

So that's one thing. The other factor is the Metroid fanbase has also grown as well since Super Metroid. There were those games on the GBA, and of course people who remembered hearing about Super Metroid back in the day but never bothered with it, but now that Metroid Prime was out they decided to see what all the fuss was about and that became their first experience with the series. It doesn't mean they necessarily liked Prime more, its just this was their first and perhaps only experience with the franchise. Had they been exposed to Super Metroid in its time they may have liked it more.

It may also be true that Metroid Prime received a much larger advertising push than Super Metroid did back in the 90s. I know Nintendo did advertise Super Metroid, because I remember seeing commercials for it, but it is possible that Prime was pushed harder.

[nickmitch]

Whenever people call Super Metroid the "superior game" over Metroid Prime, I have to ask a simple question: if that is true, then why do the sales not show that?  Why did Metroid Prime dramatically out-sell it on a platform with a dramatically smaller user base?  Just food for thought there.

That's a great point. I think the Metroid series maybe just isn't that popular, hence why we haven't seen a new 2D Metroid in years. But I think fans of the series prefer Super Metroid. Meanwhile, the FPS is a more popular genre, hence the Prime series popularity.

[broodwars]

EDIT: Broodwars, I really don't think you want to set the precedent that you think sales=quality.

I know what you're getting at, but I will bring that up when we're comparing two games that are generally considered to be of high quality.  Nintendo dominated the industry in the SNES days, and it was an afterthought in the GameCube years, yet Metroid Prime easily outsold is predecessor.  As for the GBA games, I don't think Fusion released until either just before or alongside Metroid Prime, because you could link the two games to get bonuses in Metroid Prime.  I also wouldn't use Prime being First Person as an excuse, because back in the day of Super Metroid platformers were all the rage.

[Chozo Ghost]

It should be noted that while even though Metroid Prime did outsell Super Metroid the Prime sequels did not fair so well. If Prime was a superior game you would think sales of Echoes and Corruption would have been at least equally as good, but they aren't. This means a lot of people who bought Prime were not pleased enough with it to bother with the sequels.

[NWR_insanolord]

There are all kinds of factors that went into the sales of the two games, and drawing a direct correlation between sales and quality is ludicrous. For one, there's a good argument to be made that part of the reason Metroid Prime sold so well was the high esteem Super Metroid was held in. Metroid Prime also faced less competition in terms of other high quality games on the system than Super Metroid was surrounded by on the SNES, which could explain the higher sales. Prime also had the benefit of being released in an era with a lot more widespread gaming media; more people were aware of the quality of Metroid Prime thanks to websites (like this one) than learned about Super Metroid from the much more limited media in the early '90s.


The way I see it, Super Metroid and Metroid Prime are basically the same game, and both of them are made very well, so it all comes down to which interface and presentation you prefer.

[broodwars]

It should be noted that while even though Metroid Prime did outsell Super Metroid the Prime sequels did not fair so well. If Prime was a superior game you would think sales of Echoes and Corruption would have been at least equally as good, but they aren't. This means a lot of people who bought Prime were not pleased enough with it to bother with the sequels.

I really hate that the backspace key wipes out all progress and sends you back a screen...retyping this all over again...

Or maybe people saw Echoes for the tedious, sadistic chore that it was and were cautious about buying it, an effect that trickled down to Corruption later on.  I do think that Corruption is a more fun and more interesting game than Super Metroid, but I can accept your argument for why you think Super Metroid is the better game.

If you want to bring up the sequels, though, I'll bring up Metroid: Other M, a game specifically designed to be the successor to Super Metroid in terms of story and gameplay.  That wasn't received so well, was it?  And yes, I know there are many deserved reasons for that, but you wanted to bring up the sequels for some reason.

EDIT: And I hate the "better" argument with these two games myself, Insanolord.  I just hate seeing Super Metroid put up on such a (nostalgia-dominated) pedestal by so many people, as if it's automatic that Retro couldn't create anything of equal quality.  That's why I left it labeled as "food for thought".

[NWR_insanolord]

To be fair, I played Super Metroid for the first time on the Virtual Console and still consider it one of the best games I've ever played, so there's a lot more than nostalgia there. Prime is just as good, though.

[Kytim89]

The FPS genre is so over saturated these days, so if Retro were to make another Metroid game I would rather it be done in third person in the same style as Gears of War or Uncharted.

[Chozo Ghost]

I'm more fond of Super Metroid for a variety of reasons that don't have anything to do with nostalgia. One reason would certainly be the 3rd person perspective, which was almost the only thing about Other M which I felt was done right. Take Everything from Prime and give it the 3rd person perspective of Other M and that would be a game I would feel truly worthy of being the successor to Super Metroid. So far there hasn't been a game that gets it quite right, and considering the franchise is under the total dictatorial control of Sakamoto its doubtful something like what I want to see is ever going to happen in the foreseeable future.

3rd person perspective aside, I also loved the atmosphere and the music a lot more than in Prime. The atmosphere and music of Super Metroid is eerie and it makes you feel truly alone in the universe and may even send a chill down your spine, even though it was only in 16-bit, and being that the game was actually in 3rd person you could actually enjoy and appreciate it.

1st person shooters have their place, but I don't think Metroid is a game suited for 1st person. There's a lot of platforming which is alot more difficult in 1st person. Imagine playing a Mario game in 1st person and trying to do perfect jumps onto goombas or small moving platforms or whatever the case may be. Metroid doesn't have as much of that tricky jumping as Mario, but it has enough to make 1st person perspective ill suited to it. I also didn't really like getting raped in the ass by enemies I didn't see coming. In 3rd person you have peripheral vision so you always know what's going on all around you, but in 1st person not so much.

[Mop it up]

I also played Super Metroid after the SNES era, and even after playing Metroid Prime. I'm not going to pick one I like better, as I find 2D and 3D games to play in entirely different ways, but I do consider Super Metroid to be one of the best 2D games ever produced. Though I do believe that nostalgia can play a role in one's perception of a game, rarely if ever is it the sole reason that one likes a game. The nostalgia card is usually a weak excuse for why people like a game that someone else does not.

If SNES game sales in comparison to modern game sales are an indication of quality then Chrono Trigger must be a terrible game.