Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[bustin98]

I have a 120GB harddrive on my 360. I am down to around 10GB left. This is a combination of installed games, DLC, xbox live arcade, demos, and patches. Though it is not required to install games, some do benefit from this ability.

The Wii2 needs to not be limited by storage.

[Louieturkey]

The Wii2 needs to not be limited by storage.

This is why it is rumored that you will have options for what storage type you want.  Install an HDD/SSD, plug in a USB HDD, use an SD card or even a USB thumb drive.  It will all work we hope.

There will just be 8GB of onboard space like the $200 360 has 4GB of onboard space.

[Ian Sane]

I hate what Video Game Systems have become. Back in the day, I didn't know how any of my game systems work. They just worked.

Now I feel invested in checking specs, like I'm buying a new computer.

It might be because you're a grown up now.  I didn't know **** about what was in an NES, Genesis or SNES when they were current but I know now because that sort of thing interests me.
 
Plus it was still talked about but in a dumbed down kid way.  Remember how big a deal the Genesis was for being 16 bit?  You think if Nintendo didn't make note that the SNES was also 16 bit that it would be cool and no one would say a thing?  Nah, it would be a borderline scandal!  They had to make it 16 bit and had to SAY it was 16 bit.  I remember hearing about how the TurboGrafx-16 wasn't really 16 bit or how the Jaguar wasn't really 64 bit.  It was damaging to the reputation of those consoles for that to come out.  Plus everyone went nuts about how many megs each game was.  Whoa this is a 32 meg game!  The Neo Geo had 100 meg shockers!!!
 
You also can't unlearn things.  I know enough about how consoles work to know that if certain aspects of it have limitations that it can greatly affect what games are made for it.  We know the Wii had problems with storage limitations.  We know that WiiWare has lost out on games because of size limitations.  We can't unknow this.  So no matter what it is going to be in the back of my mind because I know that if the storage is too small and too restrictive a whole bunch of problems can occur.  And these are problems that will directly affect Cafe owners.

[Mop it up]

Why don't they just give the system as much RAM as its discs will hold? That way, the system could store the entire game in the RAM, eliminating loading times!

[Ceric]

Why don't they just give the system as much RAM as its discs will hold? That way, the system could store the entire game in the RAM, eliminating loading times!

Actually if you wanted to do that you would need to have what the disc hold plus X for scratchpad type work and the OS.
 
Though I do agree, thats why I like it to go to cart because the read times of ROM, be it flash or something I don't know about, can be pretty close to RAM.

[Mop it up]

I think the RAM idea would be better than using some kind of cartridge, though. We all know third-parties aren't going to be happy if the medium for the system is any more expensive to manufacture than competing systems, so they can't use cartridges if they want support.

I actually suggested it as a joke, but after thinking about it some, it actually kind of sounds like a good idea. It lets them still use discs but eliminate load times, plus people wouldn't have to go through the hassle of installing games onto a hard drive or equivalent. The only issue is manufacturing costs for the system. I've heard that RAM is fairly cheap these days, but most computers don't have more than a few GB worth. How much would, say, 25GB of RAM cost?

[Ceric]

Alright lets say that Big N uses DDR3 1066 for the Uber Cache.  I can find it on Newegg for $11 per gig, so for a retail consumer it be $275.  Now I'm sure with bulk discounts etc.  Nintendo could probably get it for a quarter of that so lets say its $68.75.  I don't think they'll spend that much but it be cool if they did.  Though I mean they could actually go much slower and still see a benefit, thats just the cheapest one I found quick.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Nintendo likes fast RAM in place of more RAM.

You can actually do more with a smaller pool of fast RAM than you can with a larger pool of slow RAM. So I would hope that Nintendo would but 1.5/2GB of some really good RAM in the machine over a pool of 4+GB's of whatever RAM is cheap enough today. (DDR3 probably wouldn't be good enough for Nintendo)

[Ceric]

Nintendo likes fast RAM in place of more RAM.

You can actually do more with a smaller pool of fast RAM than you can with a larger pool of slow RAM. So I would hope that Nintendo would but 1.5/2GB of some really good RAM in the machine over a pool of 4+GB's of whatever RAM is cheap enough today. (DDR3 probably wouldn't be good enough for Nintendo)

I would assume whatever Ram Nintendo uses for the normal RAM role would be Wickedly fast and have its cycles tuned to complement the GPU and CPU, which is what they did with the GameCube.

[Louieturkey]

25GB of embedded RAM would be immensely expensive.  The 1GB for $11 is for one stick of 1GB ram.  It would be way too expensive to interface with 25 sticks of RAM.  So it's more likely you'd have to go with denser ram. On Newegg, the most dense ram I could find was 4GB stick.  The cheapest (with absolutely horrible timings and a type that Nintendo would never use) is $38.99 for the stick.  So 6 sticks would be $233.94.  A quarter of that price is $58.49.  I don't think they'd be able to get this much ram for that price.

Though let's say price wasn't a problem.  The real problem is heat.  This much embedded RAM would be like a furnace.  If there was this much ram, it would make everyone forget that the 360's RRoD ever existed.  You'd have the system at 80C on idle and catching on fire the moment you load a game into it (yes I'm exagerating).  So it's either that or a jet engine decible loud fan to cool it.

[Mop it up]

I didn't think having that much RAM would be feasible, but it's too bad because it would solve some issues.

[Lithium]

I think a single stick of high quality 4gb ram would be more than enough, as far as i know the 360 doesn't have more than 1 gb
anyways i bet that the price of flash cards would fall faster to be feasable than excessive ram. I still think that this discussion will be rendered moot by digital downloads and SSDs in 2 generations though, I mean as a PC gamer i haven't bought retail since 2006 thanks to steam

[BlackNMild2k1]

the 360 has 512MB of RAM

Cafe will hopefully have 1.5-2GB of RAM

[MegaByte]

Nintendo could probably get it for a quarter of that so lets say its $68.75.  I don't think they'll spend that much but it be cool if they did.

RAM margins are very thin; there's no way they'd get a discount of even 50%.

[Chozo Ghost]

The Cafe should use Isolinear Chips for its RAM like they use on the U.S.S. Enterprise D.

[broodwars]

The Cafe should use Isolinear Chips for its RAM like they use on the U.S.S. Enterprise D.

But where are we going to get an android to do all the multimodal reflection sorting?!   

[Chozo Ghost]

The Cafe should use Isolinear Chips for its RAM like they use on the U.S.S. Enterprise D.

But where are we going to get an android to do all the multi-model reflection sorting?!   

Maybe its time to bring R.O.B. out of retirement?

[broodwars]

The Cafe should use Isolinear Chips for its RAM like they use on the U.S.S. Enterprise D.

But where are we going to get an android to do all the multi-model reflection sorting?!   

Maybe its time to bring R.O.B. out of retirement?

I think he's busy being a pile of scrap after being wasted by the Nerd.   :

[Ceric]

Nintendo could probably get it for a quarter of that so lets say its $68.75.  I don't think they'll spend that much but it be cool if they did.

RAM margins are very thin; there's no way they'd get a discount of even 50%.

I've been surprised before what guaranteed large Quantities have done for prices.  Though you are probably right.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I originally put this in the Cafe thread since it seemed more speculative than anything, but IGN is implying that Cafe may be based off of an 4850 which would be a very very good thing and put us all at ease towards the graphical power of the next Nintendo console

IGN collaborated with their "sources" and built a Cafe.
http://gear.ign.com/articles/116/1168222p1.html

Based on the information we received and with help from our sources, we found retail PC components comparable to the ones Nintendo is expected to use in their new system and built a mock console of our own.

We called upon our trusted sources to help us determine the retail products with the closest possible clock speed and power, as well as fill in some of the blanks for other components, like finding a suitable motherboard and appropriate amount of RAM.

Our system comprises of the following:
-CPU: 3.2GHz Triple Core AMD Athlon II X3 450
-GPU: XFX Radeon HD 4850 GPU with 1GBs of VRAM
-Motherboard: BIOSTAR A780L3L Micro ATX
-RAM: 2GBs of Kingston DDR3
-Power Supply: Rosewill RV350 ATX 1.3
-Hard Drive: 80GB WD Caviar Blue 7200RPM

Though the parts we used are comparable, our sources say there will be some significant variation in the final product. For one, the CPU is likely to be clocked above 3.2GHz and the GPU will feature a tweaked design but a similar speed to the HD 4850 we used. Most importantly, the Wii 2/Project Cafe's total RAM is likely to be 1GB, but we added an extra GB to offset the Windows 7 OS, which is pretty taxing otherwise.

In total, our system cost $423.93, which, of course, accounts for retail markup. In the case of Nintendo, hardware and production costs will be drastically lower given the high volume at which the components will be produced, though the final retail price could be upwards of $300.

I think the most interesting thing is that they (at the suggestion of their "sources") used a 4850 which is pretty much near the top of the R700 food chain. They said it was for similar clock speed, but I can only assume it's because of similar feature set and power too (in other words, because it's the base model that is being customized).


It was being speculated that Nintendo would go with a 4770 which was roughly 3-4x a PS360, but now IGN is suggesting a 4850 which would put it 3-5x as powerful as a PS360. Not a HUGE difference (from what I've been reading), but more is better. Lets just hope they are off on the RAM and Nintendo goes 1.5GB minimum for total system memory.


edit:---------------------
Don't read IGN's conclusions of their test. They put an unoptimized PC against an optimized 360 and were slightly underwhelmed. In a closed box with a tweaked 4850, the difference will be MUCH greater, but even still, only to those that are really looking for more detail.

Cafe using a 4850 will good enough to compete against a PS4/720. Cafe using a 4850 should be able to render anything the PS360 can, but do it at 1080p 60fps with all effects enables and lots of extra AA. And that's with improved textures and increased draw distance.

[Luigi Dude]

If those specs are true then HOLY SH!T!!!  That would mean the Cafe is basically two generations ahead of the Wii in terms of power, which means Nintendo's own games are going to be out of this world. 

Seriously, if Toyko EAD was able to make Mario Galaxy look like it did on the Wii's hardware, on the Cafe they'll be able to make something that makes everything on the 360/PS3 look like N64/Playstation games in comparison.

[Shorty McNostril]

As much as I would love to believe this, this is Nintendo we are talking about here. 

However, I have never wanted so much to be wrong.

[BlackNMild2k1]

The 4850 is from 2008. Is it really too much to believe hat Nintendo would be customizing a 2008 chip to release in 2012?

Also the 4850 is the recommended GPU for The Witcher 2. So assuming that the IGN rumor is true, we could be seeing quality ports of current PC games along with everything else.

[Chozo Ghost]

That would mean the Cafe is basically two generations ahead of the Wii in terms of power,

A two generational leap is precisely what is needed. If Nintendo's next console were only a one generation leap then that would only put it on par with the 7th generation PS3 and 360. It needs to be an 8th generation system.

[Ceric]

That would mean the Cafe is basically two generations ahead of the Wii in terms of power,

A two generational leap is precisely what is needed. If Nintendo's next console were only a one generation leap then that would only put it on par with the 7th generation PS3 and 360. It needs to be an 8th generation system.

Not only that but it needs and will set the bar for what an 8th Generation system needs to be to play.  I would like to come out with something that when MS and Sony see's it they have to go back to their current plans and go "What the heck where we thinking" and start from scratch.