Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[KDR_11k]

I thought Itagaki was fired from Tecmo?

[Adrock]

He resigned supposedly because of bonuses he wasn't paid by Tecmo (he filed a lawsuit against them too). Then, he opened his own studio Valhalla Game Studio.

[Ceric]

He resigned supposedly because of bonuses he wasn't paid by Tecmo (he filed a lawsuit against them too). Then, he opened his own studio Valhalla Game Studio.

Believe the order was Suit, Resignation, and Studio.

[Adrock]

Believe the order was Suit, Resignation, and Studio.

Okay. Thanks?

[ThePerm]

they certainly weren't going to pay him any bonus after his sexual harassment suit.

[BlackNMild2k1]

New rumor from loading.de
http://loading.se/news.php?pub_id=15144

– Nintendo wants to change the way we play – again. The success of Wii was essentially proof that the controller is every bit as important as graphical technology. When Nintendo unveils its next piece of hardware on June 7th, the presentation will be as much about the feel, as the look, of its new games. The revolutionary aspect will once again be found in the controller itself.

After Touch comes Feel
We already know Nintendo is developing a controller with a built-in screen. Since that info got leaked there have been paralels between Apple's iPad and how Nintendo used the GBA as a controller for a few Gamecube-games. But this new "Screen-controller" brings another dimension - Feel. Our source uses the name "Nintendo Feel"

– Haptic technology is a form of tactile feedback used to simulate the experience of touching different objects shown on screen. The player can move their fingertips across a surface and clearly feel the difference between soft, smooth or rugged textures. Electronic companies across the world have been conducting research in this field for years. It’s been rumored that Apple is close to patenting a similar technology, and we’ve seen the Toshiba demonstration of ‘New Sensation UI Solution’, that applies a thin film over a screen in order to achieve a haptic effect. In Nintendo’s case, this is a natural progression of both the Nintendo DS touch screen and the Wii technology.

Hardcore meets Casual
After having recieved the information on Nintendo Feel from our source we have gotten confirmation that the technology exists. Toshiba seems to have shown it to the public and we have had a Novint Falcon in the office for a long time. Novint was one of the first companies to introduce haptic feedback to the gaming world.

According to our source the work for the new console has been going on for a few years, and throughout this whole time the goal has been to create an as direct and easy-to-understand concept as the Wii.

– You have to try Nintendo Feel to really understand. But the idea itself is very easy to sell, no matter if you are aiming for hardcore players or the wider audience that was first introduced to games through DS, Wii or Kinect.

And sure, anyone can suddenly realize the feeling of fur agains the fingertips would do for Nintendogs. You don't have to be unfamiliar to The Legend of Zelda to understand the epicness in drawing patterns in a desert, feeling the breeze from a lake, the burning sensation from lava or realizing the structure of a very old tree.

At the same time, Nintendo Feel is an experience that doesn't want to explain itself in words, but rather tell the player through his hands. Which is probably why Nintendo will bring playable demos to E3, even tho the finished console won't be available until 2012.

All visions in one

Nintendo Feel is on many levels a summary of all the grand visions Nintendo has had during the latest gaming generation. Starting with the Rumble Pack for the Nintendo 64, Nintendo gave the player physical feedback through the controller, and 2006 they started the concept "Touch Generations" to marked the Wii and DS to a whole new audience. If we get to see a "Feel Generations" marketing remains to be seen, but one thing is sure: The new console is an extension of the idea of more intuitive control methods.

Also the individual screens revived the "Connectivity" concept launched during the Gamecube/GBA era. A concept that never got the impact Nintendo was hoping for. Our source says:

– Remember Vitality Sensor? It will most likely make a comeback at this year’s E3, though not as a peripheral for Wii, but as a key feature of Nintendo Feel.

And yet another puzzlepiece.

tl;dr version
Innovation is in the controller. It's not just a screen, but a Haptic Screen that allows you to feel texture.
Vitality sensor is also built into the new controller
one more surprise has yet to be revealed.


I don't see how or why Nintendo would do a single touch screen yet include Haptic tech. I also think the name Nintendo Feel sounds stupid, but they didn't call it an official name, just something they refer to it by.

If this brings forth the Feel Generation of games, fine, but do not call it the Feel.

Not sure whether to call BS on this or not, but it's supposedly a pretty reliable site when it comes to regular news. So I guess we wait and see like everything else.

[Ian Sane]

It is rather sad how my faith in Nintendo has changed over the years.  Ten years ago when Nintendo had introduced the analog stick and rumble and it was all really cool I was pumped for any new Nintendo innovations.  But the touchscreen and waggle wand were so underwhelming to me that I read about this haptic stuff and I am instinctively rolling my eyes.  It's like I'm just waiting for the stupid gimmick that fucks up the Super Wii's capacity to play normal videogames.

In theory the ideas presented sound really cool and have potential.  But I figure they'll just be used in a lame way.  Hell I feel the same about 3D and how they hell can you screw up that idea?  Nintendo has going have to really blow me away to get me back to that old feeling where I looked forward to their new ideas and gave them the benefit of the doubt.

Of course the thing with force feedback is that it really adds to a game at first but it doesn't take long for you to stop noticing it.  It's still there and it's subtle but if you took it away most people probably would not notice.

[Ceric]

Honestly that would be very cool and I don't see Nintendo limiting it to the touch area but extend it all the surfaces you normal handle.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Feel The Magic XXX/Y

Imagine how popular that game would be.....

[Ceric]

Feel The Magic XXX/Y

Imagine how popular that game would be.....

Especially if they extend the Tech to the current Wiimote form...

[BlackNMild2k1]

and forget 3D porn. Now you can join in on the grope fest of your favorite pornstar.
This will innovate beyond the gaming uses.


on a more serious note though, with haptics, now you will be able to navigate the touch screen without looking away from the TV.
Buttons, sliders, dials & switches. Puzzles and menus will never be the same again.


You say that Rumble is easily forgotten, but I think it's just more taken for granted. It's something that we've become so used to, that we probably don't consciously acknowledge it. Haptic touchscreens could become the next rumble in a sense that it will be in most devices with a touchscreen and we will eventually not even notice it as some extra feature we didn't use to have.


My only question, beyond is this even legit, is how much would this tech cost to implement and what would this magical controller cost us in th end?

[King of Twitch]

It is rather sad how my faith in Nintendo has changed over the years.  Ten years ago when Nintendo had introduced the analog stick and rumble and it was all really cool I was pumped for any new Nintendo innovations.  But the touchscreen and waggle wand were so underwhelming to me that I read about this haptic stuff and I am instinctively rolling my eyes.  It's like I'm just waiting for the stupid gimmick that fucks up the Super Wii's capacity to play normal videogames.

In theory the ideas presented sound really cool and have potential.  But I figure they'll just be used in a lame way.  Hell I feel the same about 3D and how they hell can you screw up that idea?  Nintendo has going have to really blow me away to get me back to that old feeling where I looked forward to their new ideas and gave them the benefit of the doubt.

Of course the thing with force feedback is that it really adds to a game at first but it doesn't take long for you to stop noticing it.  It's still there and it's subtle but if you took it away most people probably would not notice.

Oh go hump an electric fence, this is going to be awesome.

[Chozo Ghost]

Ten years ago when

I don't want you to feel old, but the N64 came out in 1996, so that was actually 15 years ago.

[Kytim89]

and forget 3D porn. Now you can join in on the grope fest of your favorite pornstar.
This will innovate beyond the gaming uses.


on a more serious note though, with haptics, now you will be able to navigate the touch screen without looking away from the TV.
Buttons, sliders, dials & switches. Puzzles and menus will never be the same again.


You say that Rumble is easily forgotten, but I think it's just more taken for granted. It's something that we've become so used to, that we probably don't consciously acknowledge it. Haptic touchscreens could become the next rumble in a sense that it will be in most devices with a touchscreen and we will eventually not even notice it as some extra feature we didn't use to have.


My only question, beyond is this even legit, is how much would this tech cost to implement and what would this magical controller cost us in th end?

I remember discussing in my Wii 2 a while back that something like this would be for LoZ where Link stands in a shallow stream and the haptic technology massages your hand with rippples that represent water and then the built-in vitality sensor would record how you respond and thus increase the flow of water.

[Ian Sane]

I don't want you to feel old, but the N64 came out in 1996, so that was actually 15 years ago.

Actually I did mean around 10 years ago when the Cube was almost out in that at that time period I had incredibly confidence and faith in Nintendo and they had had some recent awesome innovations to justify that.
 
I didn't think of the using this for touchscreen feedback.  That would actually make pipe dream "the button layout is on the touchscreen" ideas potentially work.  That could be cool.
 
Though, again, how much is a controller going to cost here?

[Chozo Ghost]

So if the screen can create textured buttons then maybe all these mockups are getting it wrong because every mockup has standard buttons, but if the screen can generate the buttons then maybe standard buttons aren't even needed on it. Maybe all it needs is an analog stick or two and that's it. Everything else can just be made on the touchscreen thinger.

If that can be pulled off, it would mean that's the only controller you'd ever need (waggle aside) each game can have its own customized buttons and button layout. If you were to play a Genesis game on the VC, then the screen could generate Genesis buttons for you in the Genesis controller layout. Or it can be a Turbografix16 controller, or whatever the case may be. But the big question is if this can be pulled off? Is it going to be a reliable functionality that is going to perform as well as standard controller buttons do? If not then the whole idea is garbage. But if it can work just as good then Nintendo might really be on to something here.

[Caterkiller]

This sounds like such a load of crap. If it's real its going to take allot of convincing for me to buy into this feature. Draw a line in the sand, feel the sea breeze, sturdiness of a tree? Good god that makes me want to throw up. I'm the guy who bought into bongos for music and platforming and loved both. I eat up the touch screen for menu's and platforming Yoshi Touch and Go style. I don't mind the shake mechanic in galaxy or DK returns at all, in some cases I prefer it. But this, this sounds like such a lame way to cash in on early moronic adopters such as myself.

I remember before Wii came out some kid with his friends was explaining how if you do a kick flip in real life it will happen in the game. Feeling a breeze from the lake? In the sense that I am thinking? Yeah right! I'll believe it when I feel it.

[Adrock]

A lot of these rumors are just old Wii controller rumors brought back to life. I remember people talking about a touchscreen controller (though I guess it's different here with the touchscreen supposedly being part of the controller instead of the entire controller itself) and haptic technology. I would think after 6 years, it's affordable or at least more affordable now. As cool as the tech sounds, I'm having a hard time buying into it since I've heard it all before. It also seems like too much considering simplicity often prevails. A large touchscreen on a traditional controller with an accelerometer and gyroscope is pretty straightforward. It opens up a whole new level of possibilities that hasn't been done on home consoles before. The touchscreen would be the most expensive component of the controller even if it includes its own cpu. Adding things to the touchscreen like a haptic layer complicates things further. It almost seems like too much.


In any case, I'm glad Nintendo announced that they're showing Project Cafe at E3 so we get some definite answers soon. The shitstorm of ugly mockups and facepalm inducing rumors should only last the next month or so. I presume Nintendo isn't too worried about Microsoft and Sony copying them at this point since they know the competition is going to copy them either way at some point and Cafe is launching at least a year (more likely 2) before either Sony/MS. Should that be the case, I'm impressed. Keeping the controller a secret from most 3rd parties was an awful idea. Maybe they're finally learning not to alienate their partners. It only took them like 15 years (since that N64 Dream Team of developers nonsense).

[Ian Sane]

But the big question is if this can be pulled off? Is it going to be a reliable functionality that is going to perform as well as standard controller buttons do?

If this technology already was present in our lives in some way I would have more confidence in it.  But I have no idea how well this sort of thing works and I don't want to be a guinea pig for it.  With a controller it needs to work perfect.  Not "good enough" and certainly not wishy washy.
 
I turned on motion control the second I moved my "golf club" back to swing and the Mii on the screen just rocketted the ball into the woods before I swung forward.  I'm not at all in the mood for another generation of finicky controls.  I want it to work reliably and if that means they have to cook this haptic idea for another generation before it becomes usable then so be it.
 
It is normal for games to rely one to push two buttons at once which is difficult for a touchscreen to do.  But it might not be so necessary with a touchscreen since you can just give it more buttons.  Usually pushing two buttons together is a workaround for a lack of buttons.

[BlackNMild2k1]

So if the screen can create textured buttons then maybe all these mockups are getting it wrong because every mockup has standard buttons, but if the screen can generate the buttons then maybe standard buttons aren't even needed on it. Maybe all it needs is an analog stick or two and that's it. Everything else can just be made on the touchscreen thinger.

Except that Iwata went out of his way to say that they like buttons and that there will always be buttons on a Nintendo controller.

Rumors even state that there are the standard 8 buttons on the controller, so if they are gonna put more buttons on the touchcreen, it will likely be macro style buttons where you can change the function of the button on the fly.* But any buttons on a touch screen will be in addition to regular buttons on the controller.



*imagine playing an Action RPG and you can have 4 spells/items attached to your 4 face buttons. You will have your pic at over 30 spells and 40 items in 2 tabs on the left side of your touch screen where you can drag and drop the spell/item icon onto the 4 buttons on teh right side of the screen. You don't need haptics for that idea, but I think on the fly button management sounds good.

[Spak-Spang]

I don't believe it because that would mean Nintendo is throwing every trick at this controller...tricks that no other company has been working on or really developed a consumer product.  The expense is just too high for a consumer.

However, IF I am wrong...then I believe this would mostly be used to feel buttons on a screen and that is all.  You can no simulate real feelings and textures with a touchscreen.  And if you could and Nintendo had the technology first...they shouldn't be making a game system, but a freaking tablet with the device because it would revolutionize every industry. 

[Chozo Ghost]

This could have some potential to allow games to be developed specifically tailored to blind people. The Haptic screen thing could allow for braile to be displayed and interacted with so you wouldn't have to actually see to know what you are doing.

[BlackNMild2k1]

You are wrong.

They've been demonstrating the tech for years.
here is a video from 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUWy2GW7XQ4&feature=youtu.be

I even remember a story from a while back about how they could put a haptic film over a current screen and it didn't actually cost that much once mass produced.

here is another video from 2009:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7xkiy0K2BE

We should actually try to break down this controller and figure out what it would cost to build.

Standard controller parts - ~$7
(4 face buttons, 4 shoulder/triggers, 2 analog sticks, d-pad, - + home buttons, circuit board, plastic)
6" touch screen - ~$15
(Nintendo has manufactured almost 150million 3.xxin touch screens over the last 6 years, they must cost pennies at this point. almost quadrupling the screen space for a single<?> touch screen can't be that expensive )
Gyro/Accelerometers - ~$3
(Nintendo has sold more wiimotes and M+ accessories than I even care to count. those things must be worth pennies a piece at this point. Upgraded ones shouldn't be that much more expensive)
Haptic screen overlay - ~$8
(completely estimated. Basing it off some article I read a long time ago on the subject that I can't find.)
Wireless tech - ~$10
(bluetooth + WirelessHD or whatever is in each controller can't be that expensive)
Camera - ~$5
(probably not a very high tech camera, but hopefully it's capable of 1080p. I wouldn't expect more than a 1.2mp camera, but a 5+mp camera would be nice)
IR sensors - ~$1
it's probably less than that, but i'll round to the nearest dollar
CPU - $8
(all that touchscreen & streaming tech will need to be processed locally right?)
Battery - ~$15
(6" screen, haptics, touch, camera, CPU & wireless/streaming all need power)

That brings us to a total of ~$72 for a tablet controller
add on $8 profit for each controller and this thing is looking quite expensive @ $80 each.

And some of us are thinking they are gonna update the Wiimote and include that in the box too....

Either this console is gonna be expensive, I've extremely over estimated the cost of parts, this controller is not gonna be anything like the rumors suggest or the console itself will be weak in favor of a beefed up controller.

[ThePerm]

so is there going to be casual feeling or hardcore feeling?

[BlackNMild2k1]

I just realized that I left out the Vitality/Biometric Sensor - ~$5?
(I assume it will be in the form of a rubber grip that you would naturally squeeze while holding the controller so that you aren't even aware that you are doing it. Nintendo's been working on this for a while, so I expect it to be fairly cheap.)

so add all that up and you have a $77 controller that would probably retail for ~$90
Online better be good, because I don't see myself springing for more than one controller unless it comes packed in with a must have game for almost free.