Topic: The OFFICIAL Big N rumor thread *bring your own salt*

[Ceric]

If the tech actually is what is being reported thats not even 2010... Its more like the took the current tech from 2008 and made a console out of it.  I'm very very disappointed if thats the case and I would hope it wouldn't be more than $200.  Thats just super disappointing.  My POS computer is the same as that bar not being PPC.

Thats just getting into the realm of what the HD consoles can do, not being a generation ahead.  This is where I would expect the 3DS to be equivalently, not driving as much real estate.

I'm sure it will work out fine and developers will slave over getting the best out of it but I now don't expect to be truly wowed regularly by it.  In fact I expect Phones to pass it by not more than 1-2 years after its released.

[Oblivion]

Phones? You're kidding right? Phones haven't even passed the DS yet. Good luck on that.

[ShyGuy]

Black N Mild is DOMINATING in this thread. DOMINATING.

[Adrock]

I like speculation and rumors as much as the next gamer, but Cheesus Christ... What the hell happened here? Does anyone actually believe any of this? Sure, some of it may come true, but most of it is utter bullshit. I remember the nonsense people were saying before the Wii Remote was unveiled. Nintendo doesn't allow these kinds of leaks to happen.

Let's think about this for a second. Nintendo is obviously not gonna abandon the casual market that they so effortlessly conquered. But what is your common casual gonna think about the announcement of new hardware to replace their hardware? "Why would I want a new Wii when my current Wii works perfectly fine." "I'm gonna have to buy all new games for it? what about he games I already own?"

I've heard this reasoning before and it's built on the assumption that casual gamers think like traditional gamers. Considering casual gamers are designated "casual," that entire segment of the market is fickle by nature. They don't play or buy videogames nearly as often as the so-called hardcore. It's impossible to sustain interest from the casual market without constantly innovating. Casual gamers will replace hardware if they're given a reason to; when they're old devices can't do what newer devices can. That's why people buy new computers, phones, etc. What's going to sell Nintendo's next console to casual gamers is something that no one has ever seen before. It's the reason the Wii became a mainstream hit. You can't ease casual gamers into new hardware. That's a myth and a silly one. Nintendo can have motion controls and backwards compatibility which are both great, but innovation is going to sell their next console and there is no "easing in." If it's appealing enough, people will jump in.

So to comfortably bring over the Casuals that may want to play newer games but not be with out the games they already own and then also bring over the Core gamers that never bought in and are likely to visit the back catalog is to provide FULL BC. If Nintendo can do Full BC (like Wii w/ GC) without breaking the bank to make it happen (like PS3) then it would be stupid of them not to do it.

Except casual gamers wouldn't be without the games they already own because they already own a Wii. That console they bought but probably stopped playing doesn't suddenly cease to be once Nintendo releases new hardware and I would bet that these same casual gamers don't typically trade games into Gamestop. If they bought crap like Deca Sports, they probably still have it. Additionally, if core gamers didn't buy a Wii, backwards compatibility is NOT going to change their minds about Wii games because they didn't find those games appealing to begin with. Otherwise, they'd already own a Wii. Backwards compatibility is a luxury, not a necessity. However, like I said in the post you quoted, "Nintendo will put backwards compatibility in if they can." (italics added for emphasis) I'm not denying that. It's a nice thing to have; just not a dealbreaker by any stretch of the imagination. The whole reason this even came up was if Nintendo ditched optical media, meaning backwards compatibility is physically impossible since the console would flat out not have a disc drive. In that instance, Nintendo would be just fine as long as their next console does something new that any gamer can embrace.

[Mannypon]

and it begins....... I got to say it, there's nothing better than pre announcement jitters and rumor mongering in these forums. I think these moments are what bring the best out of us and these forums in particular. These are the few times where I'm checking these forums every half hour like clockwork on my cell phone to see what rumors have cropped up and to read everyone's input on the subject. This is definitely good reading lol.

As for my take on all this news? At first, I couldn't believe it. Nintendo is so secretive, to have all this dropped on us in practically 24 hrs is unheard of which leads me to believe Nintendo's hands are all over this. I'm thinking Nintendo dropped this bag of nuggets on us (the internet) to see what kind of reaction everyone was going to have. I think based on the overall feel they percieve from the internet buzz/feedback they will make slight adjustments to the hardware for the better before the doors are opened come June/E3. This is all wishfull thinking on my part though as Nintendo could probably care less what anyone thinks and just keep moving at their own pace regardless of the industry. Hey, it seems to have been working for them all these years. Regardless of what we feel about the decisions they've made, they continue to print money and hord it for a rainy day.

My take on the potential system itself is overyly positive so far. I'm in the camp of gamer that, although I have a 1080p hdtv with a full surround sound setup, my wife takes up the tv for most of the time we're together and she rarely is in the mood to watch me play video games (unless its something cinematic like Mass Effect lol) This new system will solve alot of my issues as I'll finally be able to play my console games without having to wait for her to go to bed lol.

Also, this system will provide some seriously sweet LAN parties. If everyone brings their tablet remotes to a friends house, they can all have a Modern Warfare fragfest on their own dedicated screens.

Hearing all the details also got me thinking that Nintendo could be attempting to connect the ds line with their home console. With this system, we can maybe have a full HD Professor Layton game on our home console. Provide Layton with a tablet in the game so in turn, using the tablet remote in real life will build a solid connection to Layton. It'll be as if your hands will be an extention of his.

All in all, this is so far out there and we still don't know what other suprises Nintendo has in store. I'd be weary of any other company attempting this but given this is Nintendo, I can't wait to see what sort of games they have in mind for this design. Remember, Nintendo usually builds their controllers with a certain gameplay in mind so they must be deep in developement on said games.

[Mop it up]

A clear example of this is that no one has a problem with the second stick being off-center, because it is still usable.

I have a problem with it, that's one reason why I don't like dual-analogue. That, and most games don't use the left stick and D-pad at the same time, yet somehow I'm expected to use the right stick and face buttons at the same time. One stick is plenty.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Something else I was gonna post last night(my computer reset and I can't remember where the links are now) was actually from a little over a month ago. An AMD employee was talking about how he was on the team that was working on a new chip for a next generation console due for release at the end of 2012. He said this back in the beginning of march. It's an AMD Fusion based design which is combined CPU/GPU upto 4cores @ 28nm and if I remember correctly, is the same type of design AMD did for MS with the Xbox Slim to eliminate the RRoD for Slim models.

Just wanted to add more info;

This employee said that they were originally targeted for an end of 2012 release, and that They had already been working on the chip for a little more than a year (this was said back in March) and that chipd esigns like this usually take about 2 years. But then after that he said that they were told to pull in their schedules, meaning they needed to get this chip ready before the original date, which I would assume was early 2012 for fab and assembly in the consoles by late 2012.



Educated guesses are leaning towards the Trinity
2-4 cores & DX11 capable

If this is true and Nintendo isn't scaling it back, then this chip should easily low the PS360 out of the water based on the things I've heard, considering that the X360 (the HD console with the stronger GPU) is based on this design: http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/other/Pages/x1900-specifications.aspx
and I'm guessing that the Trinity won't be completed till sometime later this year at the earliest.

[Ceric]

Phones? You're kidding right? Phones haven't even passed the DS yet. Good luck on that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Focus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_DS

Look at the Tech Specs.  I have a Focus and let me tell you there are some games that look better than the PSP.

Something else I was gonna post last night(my computer reset and I can't remember where the links are now) was actually from a little over a month ago. An AMD employee was talking about how he was on the team that was working on a new chip for a next generation console due for release at the end of 2012. He said this back in the beginning of march. It's an AMD Fusion based design which is combined CPU/GPU upto 4cores @ 28nm and if I remember correctly, is the same type of design AMD did for MS with the Xbox Slim to eliminate the RRoD for Slim models.

Just wanted to add more info;

This employee said that they were originally targeted for an end of 2012 release, and that They had already been working on the chip for a little more than a year (this was said back in March) and that chipd esigns like this usually take about 2 years. But then after that he said that they were told to pull in their schedules, meaning they needed to get this chip ready before the original date, which I would assume was early 2012 for fab and assembly in the consoles by late 2012.



Educated guesses are leaning towards the Trinity
2-4 cores & DX11 capable

If this is true and Nintendo isn't scaling it back, then this chip should easily low the PS360 out of the water based on the things I've heard, considering that the X360 (the HD console with the stronger GPU) is based on this design: http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/other/Pages/x1900-specifications.aspx
and I'm guessing that the Trinity won't be completed till sometime later this year at the earliest.

The only problem with that is that I'm sure the Trinity is x86 and not PPC.  Not to say they couldn't be based around the same tech and all.  Get a trinity derivative.  Also Nintendo historically likes to own the chip design so they can lower costs later.

[Chozo Ghost]

A clear example of this is that no one has a problem with the second stick being off-center, because it is still usable.

I have a problem with it, that's one reason why I don't like dual-analogue. That, and most games don't use the left stick and D-pad at the same time, yet somehow I'm expected to use the right stick and face buttons at the same time. One stick is plenty.

Two sticks are necessary for games where you need one to control your character's movement and another to control the direction they are looking. COD and other FPS games are a perfect example of this. How can you aim your gun and move your character at the same time with only one stick? This was a big issue on the N64 which only had one stick. The controller had those yellow camera buttons which were intended to move the camera around, but it didn't work very well in practice and it was clear another stick was needed.

So I have no problem with controllers having two sticks, because I feel that's how many is needed. The issue I have is the placement of those sticks. The dualshock is obviously a rush job where the sticks were just tacked on. It is obvious that the Dualshock was not designed from the ground up with analog input in mind. The GC controller, however, was.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Something else I was gonna post last night(my computer reset and I can't remember where the links are now) was actually from a little over a month ago. An AMD employee was talking about how he was on the team that was working on a new chip for a next generation console due for release at the end of 2012. He said this back in the beginning of march. It's an AMD Fusion based design which is combined CPU/GPU upto 4cores @ 28nm and if I remember correctly, is the same type of design AMD did for MS with the Xbox Slim to eliminate the RRoD for Slim models.

Just wanted to add more info;


This employee said that they were originally targeted for an end of 2012 release, and that They had already been working on the chip for a little more than a year (this was said back in March) and that chipd esigns like this usually take about 2 years. But then after that he said that they were told to pull in their schedules, meaning they needed to get this chip ready before the original date, which I would assume was early 2012 for fab and assembly in the consoles by late 2012.





Educated guesses are leaning towards the Trinity
2-4 cores & DX11 capable

The only problem with that is that I'm sure the Trinity is x86 and not PPC.  Not to say they couldn't be based around the same tech and all.  Get a trinity derivative.  Also Nintendo historically likes to own the chip design so they can lower costs later.

Remember that AMD took the MS 3core PPC and fusioned it to their GPU and that's how we got the 360Slim. I'm sure Nintendo likely has their own custom multi-core PPC design and are having AMD fuse it with their current line of GPU.

Remember what the AMD guy said, and I paraphrase :
"We have been working on this chip for a next gen console for over a year. The console is due at the end of 2012 and the chip we are designing for it is part of our roadmap. We were told recently to bring in our schedule, which is typically 2 years long.... I think I'm still under NDA with all of this"

I could quote the guy directly, but I think he's already said too much and I don't want to risk his job with direct links spreading all over the internet. Paraphrased comments will have to do for now.

-------------------------

I also want to clarify on some mis-translations from yesterday.

Wii 2 Breakdown

-Codenamed "Project Café"
-To be revealed @ E3 2011
-Architecture similar to Xbox360, porting titles from 360 should be very easy
-Fully Backwards Compatible - Plays GameCube and Wii games, and support all Wii peripherals (1)
-Specs : CPU is custom IBM PowerPC with three cores, GPU should be an ATI from the R700 family (Radeon 4000 HD series), with a shader unit at version 4.1. Ram should be at least 512MB. (2)
-Controller is a touch tablet that can stream content from the console
-Controller Specs : 6-inch screen, single touch (?no multi touch?), front camera, acts as a wii sensor bar (3), has a d-pad, 2 shoulder buttons, two triggers, and a full set of standard buttons (A, B, X, Y) & 2 analogs.
-Should be released between mid 2012 (in Japan?), and holiday season 2012(U.S.?)
-A big surprise about he console is to be revealed @ E3 (June 7th 2011)

What was actually said was that;
(1)There was no mention of BC, but since it has a similar architecture, there is no reason why it couldn't have full BC with the Wii and it's peripherals

(2)It has a similar architecture to Xbox360 which has a 3core CPU and 512MB of RAM. It also has graphics that are better than x360 meaning that it should have something more modern like a R700 series GPU

(3)The controller has IR emitters/sensors like the sensor bar for Wii

everything else seems accurate to the 01.net report which is in French:
http://www.01net.com/editorial/531680/project-cafe-ce-qui-reste-a-eclaircir-a-propos-de-la-wii-2/

[Chozo Ghost]

(1)What was actually said was that there was no mention of BC , but since it has a similar architecture, there is no reason why it couldn't have full BC with the Wii and it's peripherals

(2)It has a similar architecture to Xbox360 which has a 3core CPU and 512MB of RAM, and has graphics that are better than x360 meaning that it should have atleast a R700 series GPU

It would be great if it not only had BC with the Wii, but also with the 360 as well.

[ShyGuy]

Want I want to know is, how the heck do you play Wii Sports with a six inch touch screen? Is this thing modular?

[Chiller]

...It's an AMD Fusion based design which is combined CPU/GPU upto 4cores @ 28nm and if I remember correctly, is the same type of design AMD did for MS with the Xbox Slim to eliminate the RRoD for Slim models.

Educated guesses are leaning towards the Trinity
2-4 cores & DX11 capable

Is this to say that it would be 28nm tech, or just that it is one of the available specs?  If so, they would not be using the Trinity, as the color-coded chart shows it to be 32nm.  The 28nm processor would be the "Krishna", which, according to the chart, is meant for small form-factors.

Of, this is all assuming they are using AMD's designs, and that this chart is an accurate depiction of their projected progress.

[Mop it up]

COD and other FPS games are a perfect example of this. How can you aim your gun and move your character at the same time with only one stick? This was a big issue on the N64 which only had one stick.

The answer to this problem is the Wii pointer, a setup which is infinitely superior to dual-analogue. Though even the Nintendo 64 setup was better; I used the C-buttons for movement, and it was a lot easier to press the A and B buttons from there than it is to move my thumb off a stick and press the face buttons. Call of Duty has a lot of functions and it's really clunky to have to take a thumb away from a stick and therefore stop moving for a second to press a button.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Is this to say that it would be 28nm tech, or just that it is one of the available specs?  If so, they would not be using the Trinity, as the color-coded chart shows it to be 32nm.  The 28nm processor would be the "Krishna", which, according to the chart, is meant for small form-factors.

Of, this is all assuming they are using AMD's designs, and that this chart is an accurate depiction of their projected progress.

That is my mistake, when I originally typed it up I put it as Krishna and then tried to correct it and put Trinity when I meant Fusion the entire time. No one is sure of the manufacture process that will be used, but Trinity was the processor that seemed to fit Nintendo the best in the timeline.

[Azrael]

[Adrock]

Wait, I'm getting a little hazy here. While the principle of grouping the CPU and GPU from IBM and AMD on the same die is along the same principle as AMD Fusion, it's not the same thing as AMD Fusion since anything Fusion based would employ a CPU from AMD, not IBM. I guess what I'm confused about is if the next-gen Nintendo console rumors currently making the rounds on the interwebs are once again pairing an IBM PowerPC based CPU with an AMD GPU like Wii/Gamecube, what does this have to do with AMD Fusion? Furthermore, I'm not sure IBM's PowerPC and AMD Fusion are even compatible. I would imagine if Nintendo ditches IBM's PowerPC based chip design in favor of something AMD Fusion based, backwards compatibility would have to be done through emulation, similar to how Xbox games had to be emulated on 360 when Microsoft switched from Intel/Nvidia to IBM/ATi CPU-GPU. It wouldn't the same thing as the Wii just going into Gamecube mode when a GCN disc is inserted.

It would makes sense for Nintendo to press the reset button on their commissioned chip design and start over with something developers may be more comfortable with, considering no 3rd party developer other than Factor 5 ever bothered to take advantage of the Flipper/Hollywood since everything had to be custom written with TEV. That said, if something Fusion derived makes it easier for 3rd party developers to more easily port from PS3/360/PC to Nintendo's next generation console (or vice versa if Nintendo can manage to become the lead platform for development), that's clearly a better choice. 3rd parties are more likely to embrace development on Nintendo's next console if it requires less work and less money. It doesn't matter how Nintendo gets higher quality games on their next console so long as they get them at all, especially since there are far fewer 3rd party exclusives these days.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Pikmin 3 now gardening on Project Cafe; also Nintendo in talks with Rockstar (again)
http://gameolosophy.com/consoles/wii/rumour-pikmin-coming-to-project-cafe-nintendo-talking-with-rockstar/

Some key inside sources have told me that Nintendo has moved Pikmin 3 from the original Wii to their new console, which is currently being codenamed, “Project Cafe”.  I have been told that this new Pikmin game will indeed be at E3 in video form.  When Pikmin 3 was in development, a decision was made that the boosted graphics from the next Nintendo console would add an extra benefit to create more realistic grass, dirt, mud, rocks, and water in the game.  The extra graphics horsepower would allow little extra environment details that couldn’t be done on the original Wii.  People who have seen the game have told me that it looks drop dead gorgeous.

imagine this


Another thing I’ve been told is that Nintendo is trying to build a better relationship with Rockstar Games to get them to throw major support on the next Nintendo console.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Wait, I'm getting a little hazy here. While the principle of grouping the CPU and GPU from IBM and AMD on the same die is along the same principle as AMD Fusion, it's not the same thing as AMD Fusion since anything Fusion based would employ a CPU from AMD, not IBM. I guess what I'm confused about is if the next-gen Nintendo console rumors currently making the rounds on the interwebs are once again pairing an IBM PowerPC based CPU with an AMD GPU like Wii/Gamecube, what does this have to do with AMD Fusion? Furthermore, I'm not sure IBM's PowerPC and AMD Fusion are even compatible. I would imagine if Nintendo ditches IBM's PowerPC based chip design in favor of something AMD Fusion based, backwards compatibility would have to be done through emulation, similar to how Xbox games had to be emulated on 360 when Microsoft switched from Intel/Nvidia to IBM/ATi CPU-GPU. It wouldn't the same thing as the Wii just going into Gamecube mode when a GCN disc is inserted.

It would makes sense for Nintendo to press the reset button on their commissioned chip design and start over with something developers may be more comfortable with, considering no 3rd party developer other than Factor 5 ever bothered to take advantage of the Flipper/Hollywood since everything had to be custom written with TEV. That said, if something Fusion derived makes it easier for 3rd party developers to more easily port from PS3/360/PC to Nintendo's next generation console (or vice versa if Nintendo can manage to become the lead platform for development), that's clearly a better choice. 3rd parties are more likely to embrace development on Nintendo's next console if it requires less work and less money. It doesn't matter how Nintendo gets higher quality games on their next console so long as they get them at all, especially since there are far fewer 3rd party exclusives these days.

I'm no expert on this subject but to my understanding AMD won the contract for Xbox360 Slim and X720. With 360Slim, they combined the current PPC chip the Xbox uses with the current AMD GPU that the 360 uses onto a single chip using their "fusion" process.

Supposedly the next AMD project for consoles was to do almost the same exact thing, and it is being assumed it is for Nintendo since the project they are working on was for a console that was slated to be released by end of 2012.

MS just put up job posting for designing/working on their next generation console this year, and "AMD" has said that they have been working on this particular chip for over a year, so it would make sense to assume that what "AMD" is working on is not for MS.

As to whether or not "Fusion" is what was used to get the 360Slim onto a singe chip, I don't know, but what they are working on for this next console (due in 2012) is in their current pipeline and their current pipeline is Fusion.

IBM is the one that came out and said they were working on chips for both Sony & Nintendo (cell infused PPC's), so it would also make sense, knowing what AMD has already done for MS, that AMD could be doing the same for Nintendo.

[Ceric]

Conceptually it wouldn't be that hard it just be making space and the CPU and gpu soils talk like they always do except their connections be faster and more direct. 

I could definitely see Pikmin 3 being put off to take advantage of the better graphics.  That series has always strikes me as wanting to get the environment photorealistic.  Not to mention having the horsepower to Support larger hordes and I think it be a natural fit for another screen.

[Kytim89]

If Nintendo is talking with Rockstar then could GTA 5 be a Wii 2 launch title?

[Ceric]

If Nintendo is talking with Rockstar then could GTA 5 be a Wii 2 launch title?

Rockstar Ping-pong

[BlackNMild2k1]

AMD demonstrating HD streaming tech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF8omefUZik

[Chozo Ghost]

This is a good mockup, but its missing a D-Pad, and I can't see Nintendo omitting that.

[Sarail]

It's not going to be in the shape of a remote, guys. Get over it.

It's time to go back to what's functional, and what works... with a bit of added flair this time around.