Author Topic: A serious gaming machine  (Read 15158 times)

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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2006, 04:13:56 AM »
Hey, speaking of Serious Sam...I wouldn't mind that on the Wii.

Offline couchmonkey

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RE:A serious gaming machine
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2006, 05:18:41 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: MaryJane
I think assumption has taken over.

Where does it says in the laws of the universe that just because we think the Wii is a great system it is going to automatically succeed?


It's true that this is not going to be as easy as the DS versus PSP, but there are a few reasons why the assumption that Wii will best PS3 might be correct:

1. Sony has screwed up so much.  The high price, being last to launch, and a boring launch lineup all spell trouble for Sony.  Even the Japaense developers, gamers and press are out for Sony's blood.  In the end they may eat PS3 up anyway, but looking at it from a pre-launch day perspective, Sony's in pretty bad shape.

2. Nintendo has done so much right.  There are some worries here and there: will the price be low enough?  Will the control kinks be worked out?  Will storage become an issue?  But the launch games and the early 2007 lineup look great, potentially the best a console has seen.  More importantly, the system looks like fun: more fun than the other two.

3. The line-ups at E3.  Again, I can't say how this will translate in the real world, but it can't possibly be a bad sign.

4. Third parties.  SNK and Rockstar are onboard, Square Enix has two games in the works, and EA has created a studio dedicated to Wii development.  Third party support definitely seems to be turning around for Wii.  Granted the same seemed to be the case for GameCube in the early going, but the early support for Wii is even more dramatic.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2006, 08:07:18 AM »
"Where does it says in the laws of the universe that just because we think the Wii is a great system it is going to automatically succeed?"

I think it's going to succeed entirely because the PS3's price is so insanely high it looks like that will totally butcher their sales and Nintendo will be the de facto choice for Japanese third parties as a result.  That's it.  In my mind Nintendo is merely just screwing up less than Sony this time.  It's much like how I consider Sony's rise to power merely to be because Nintendo and Sega just screwed up so huge while Sony didn't.

Offline Kairon

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RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2006, 11:38:59 AM »
But what about Microsoft? In my opinion Microsoft is doing a whole BUNCH of things right... Shouldn't they be included in this discussion?

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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2006, 11:52:54 AM »
MS fails japan -- so much for getting the favor of JPN devs.

~~~~~

Wii will succeed because Nintendojo lacked a significant presence at E3 this year.

The GameCube failed the last generation because Nintendojo cursed Nintendo with their antics at E3 2001.

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Offline Kairon

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RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2006, 12:02:38 PM »
Yeah, but seriously, the XBox360 embodies everything a "serious gaming machine" should be. Microsoft has done very little wrong this generation, they've got momentum and they've got online up and running and probably better than Nintendo or Sony will put forward. MS is exactly on the path of "serious gaming machine."

So... doesn't that mean that Microsoft should be looking like a very very good bet this generation to "win?"

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Offline JonLeung

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RE:A serious gaming machine
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2006, 12:05:20 PM »
Not if you have a PC.

I'm sure you can get a decent-enough video card for even less than an Xbox 360 would cost.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2006, 12:10:31 PM »
"So... doesn't that mean that Microsoft should be looking like a very very good bet this generation to 'win?'"

You can't win if you're a complete bust in Japan.  It's too important of a market to have virtually no presence in.  Nintendo has the potential to do well in Japan and North America so it has the upperhand.  The Japanese don't really care about American games so a strong American presence doesn't help.  However Americans buy Japanese games so winning in Japan has the more worldwide effect.  I think MS can do quite well and maybe even be the market leader in North America.  But they can't have that sort of NES/Playstation type of dominance without Japan.  The best MS can achieve is a SNES/Genesis scenario where one is the market leader but the other has enough marketshare that they're practically equals.

Offline Requiem

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RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2006, 12:27:10 PM »
 --  Wow, it's been a while since I agreed with Ian, but he pretty much summed it up.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:A serious gaming machine
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2006, 12:54:10 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane I think it's going to succeed entirely because the PS3's price is so insanely high it looks like that will totally butcher their sales and Nintendo will be the de facto choice for Japanese third parties as a result.  That's it.  In my mind Nintendo is merely just screwing up less than Sony this time.  It's much like how I consider Sony's rise to power merely to be because Nintendo and Sega just screwed up so huge while Sony didn't.


Couldn't have put it better.

Nintendo is just doing everything right this time around:

-new control scheme but also keeping the "old skool" controllers around for Wiimote xenophobes
-downloadable library of thousands of former console games spanning 5-7 previous consoles (I know people who have said they'll buy a Wii for this reason alone)
-lowest price of all three
-cheapest GAMES of all three
-backwards compatibility with the GC, allowing you to plug in GC controllers to boot
-use of most 3rd party USB devices as storage instead of selling expensive memory cards
-small form factor so it won't take up much room in an entertainment center
-large appeal to 3rd parties, many of whom are making games for the console without Nintendo having to pay them to do so
-f*cking amazing launch lineup, with MP3, Zelda: TP and Wario Ware available at launch
-not appearing to be crazy and eccentric like Sony

I think the aforementioned will win them the console war this gen. I just can't imagine them not pulling off 1st in Japan and at least 2nd in the US.
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Offline MaryJane

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RE:A serious gaming machine
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2006, 02:22:29 PM »
You all make some good point which haved served to alleviate many of my fears. However, I still fear the deafness of the lambs pun intended! .

If early third party developers have doubts about the system, that can be taken care of by a strong or even decent launch like the DS. Yes many devs says we can't wait to make games for this system... but they did. They waited until it was well received, and I still think that initially ps3 will be well received, which could make it go strong for 2 or 3 years (half a cycle) before people realize the error in their way. Those 2.5 years could be damaging to the Wii.

Sony is making some mistakes... to us. A good number of people agree with Sony's philosophy that more money means better stuff. They will be willing to pay the ludicrous launch price, if even just to say "Hey look at what I can afford". I see the price point being a much greater issue in Japan where even the size of the beast may be an issue. But there is no denying the hype and fanfare surrounding the ps3, it may be hard to imagine, but people are just as excited about the ps3 as we are about the Wii. Strange huh? Not really, its about loyalty and expectations. The worst that can happen to the PS3 is that it will have just as hard a time as the Wii to convince people it's worth buying. Except that Sony has a better hype machine, and much better liars.

Nintendo's launch does look strong from this side of september, but it needs to be timely. Nintendo could totally screw this up by simply releasing on the wrong date. They need word of mouth more than anything for a system like this, and they need it to spread before Sony can plant it's virus in millions of homes. They aren't just trying to convince one group of people anymore but technically 3. The first and foremost, is the most obvious the hard core gamer. The second and almost as equally obvious if you pay attention to Nintendo news Which can be found 24/7 at Planetgamecube.com is the non-gamer who has never or hasn't recently played video games. The third is the non-gamer who owns a DS and only non-games for it. They can neither afford to stretch themselves too thin, nor focus too much on one group, they need to simultaneously offer something for everybody, and find a way to tell them all about it. That isn't going to be easy, and will take awhile.

As for Microsoft, yes they are doing a lot of things right, but I ask you where are the games? Thus far into the 360's life I can say that there have honestly been 3 games that have made me think of buying the games... but not the system itself. Battle for Middle Earth, is kind of making me want to buy a 360 though. My biggest gripe with the 360 is its lack of quality. They burn out? How does something that costs $400 burn out in less than 60 days??? It's quite ridiculous. For all the things Microsoft did right, they still have many hurdles to climb, as mentioned earlier winning over the japanese, which is nearly impossible for an american to do.

I hope I'm worrying for nothing and Nintendo will send me a big "No Worries Mon" With an early - mid October launch date allowing AT LEAST 30 days to pass between their launch and Sony's.

Oh and forget the word serious, geez it just means like a serious contender, not how anal the system itself is.  
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Offline EasyCure

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RE:A serious gaming machine
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2006, 02:34:14 PM »
eh i was originally going to rant about the price but i'll just make this short.

the wii has potential to do extremely well this holiday for uninformed parents (you know, the majority of them) that have heard all year about how their kids want a ps3 and show up to a gamestop or something and find out its $499 for the cheaper model. atleast in my area, they wont stand for it. they wont want to walk away empty handed so its either buying a few games for whichever system they already have or the Wii.

the reason i'll assume wii in  this situation is because if you were a sales person, a semi-smart one atleast, and some mother coming to spend xmas money on her kid asks for some help you would think that if this person knows their business, they'd make more money on selling a Wii (a bundle no doubt) then a few older games. moms dont know what games their kids have so theres chance they'll end up having to return whatever games they buy, so its safert offer something the kid wont have because Wii would still be a new product.

i guess this post was still kinda long but its shorter than what i had in mind. hope that made some sense atleast...
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Offline EasyCure

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RE:A serious gaming machine
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2006, 02:40:46 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: MaryJane
I hope I'm worrying for nothing and Nintendo will send me a big "No Worries Mon" With an early - mid October launch date allowing AT LEAST 30 days to pass between their launch and Sony's.


since when does nintendo have a jamaican accent???

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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2006, 03:00:40 PM »
"A good number of people agree with Sony's philosophy that more money means better stuff."

Who are these people though?  A big part of the Playstation's success is because when it launched in comparison to the Saturn is was the "cheap" console.  The Playstation also had the advantage that its games were way cheaper than the N64's.  A lot of the appeal of the Playstation brand has been the huge sh!tload of games and the affordable price.  Sony's never had a huge successful videogame system with an inflated price.  Until the PSP (which doesn't qualfiy as a huge success) Sony consoles have been pretty affordable.  The truth is a huge chunk of their previous userbase might just flat out not be able to afford a PS3.  The Playstation traditionally has been a mass market product.  Now suddenly it's a high-end product.  One analyst recently compared it to Sony switching from family sedans to sports cars.

RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2006, 07:21:52 PM »
Not that this part of the country matters, but here in Southern Oklahoma, it's hard to imagine even the "budget-priced'' PS3 model selling.  Around these parts, the only people I can imagine owning a PS3 at such a morbidly-high expense are the dudes that work the counter at Gamestop.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2006, 09:54:12 PM »
Everyone is screwing up. Nintendo manages to have the largest good decision - bad decision discrepancy this gen.

I see the PS3 like the PSP, at first everyone will talk about how great it is and how it's going to win big time but it's going to start mediocrely and it's only downhill from there. Higher price = less money left in the entertainment budget, higher priced games = the remaining money won't buy many games => lower game sales => fewer game releases => PSP.

Sony fanboys are going to gobble up the PS3, sure, but the ilent majority, the people that don't bother to post on internet forums and the like, the people that see games as yet another entertainment medium like movies and CDs, that don't put any time into researching games (the people I call casual gamers), what are they going to do?

Offline Kairon

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RE:A serious gaming machine
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2006, 10:05:27 PM »
Maybe... PS3 game prices WON'T be as high as we think...

I'm just saying. *shrug*

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Offline Nephilim

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RE:A serious gaming machine
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2006, 10:15:59 PM »
Well I dont think the activision double packs (which were 2 games for price of 1) for 360 shipped alot, despite being popular games gun, tony hawk, most wanted

I think Nintendo fans are the only ones outraged by the price, because people will proudly buy games like oblivion for full price, when pc gamer can get it for 10american cheaper (30aussie)
Price doesnt seem to effect buying at all, as people normally only get 1 game at launch anyway, its just the games bought after that and with the market most people proberly only buy 1 game at a time so it wouldnt effect it much

Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2006, 06:14:07 AM »
Kairon:  I really expect this to happen.  PS3 games won't be that expensive.  They will end up being cheaper after softwares sales don't deliver the desired numbers.

I suspect though that the first 4 months or so that prices will be very high...but eventually they will drop.

I expect the same to happen with the Xbox 360...game prices will drop.  Specially if you can buy a Wii game for much cheaper.  Comparing prices on the shelf, I don't care about power or graphics or what not.  

If I can get a system for at least $100.00 less, and games for atleast $10-15 less, I am going with that system.  Because it means my budget is freer for everything else in life that I need.


Offline Kairon

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RE:A serious gaming machine
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2006, 02:33:11 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Everyone is screwing up. Nintendo manages to have the largest good decision - bad decision discrepancy this gen.


How has MS screwed up this Gen? I'm just interested, I can't pin down any specific point of criticism.

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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline Ceric

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RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2006, 03:00:17 PM »
Hardware reliability would be the one I say.
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Offline SixthAngel

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RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2006, 07:16:23 PM »
How can you say game prices don't matter?  The only reason I have bought a lot of DS games is because they are about 30 bucks each.  I expected them to be more and would have half the games I do now if they were even 40 dollars.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:A serious gaming machine
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2006, 11:15:18 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Everyone is screwing up. Nintendo manages to have the largest good decision - bad decision discrepancy this gen.


How has MS screwed up this Gen? I'm just interested, I can't pin down any specific point of criticism.

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Well a few that I can think of is a terrible Japanese launch (that really hurts a video game company), hardware reliability, huge drought in between games, and lack of hardware (though it is much better now, but it took way too long to take care of demand).
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Offline Ceric

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RE: A serious gaming machine
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2006, 04:38:54 AM »
I'll give MS some slack on the Hardware replenishing side since they've had to redesign and replace the system a lot.  On paper they did things so much better hardware wise this time.  Bad thing the actual equipment didn't work out.
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Offline Athrun Zala

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RE:A serious gaming machine
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2006, 09:32:21 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Maybe... PS3 game prices WON'T be as high as we think...

I'm just saying. *shrug*

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well, BluRay *does* point towards more expensive games.... (plus the game's development, etc)
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