Author Topic: Sony getting hit Hard lately (Read 867755 times)

that Baby guy · « **Reply #2150 on:** July 09, 2007, 11:38:22 AM »

So essentially, you will pay $100 dollars more for an overrated racer and 20 gigs? That new SKU is obviously not worth it. If you plan on getting a PS3 anytime soon, get the cheaper one, and if you need it, buy yourself an extra hard drive.

Kairon · « **Reply #2151 on:** July 09, 2007, 11:54:26 AM »

Yeah, this $600 kit in many ways looks inferior to the $500 option.

BigJim · « **Reply #2152 on:** July 09, 2007, 12:36:35 PM »

EE is gone in the 80GB SKU?

Then I adjust my numbers a bit... That SKU probably nets them $90+ towards cutting costs. The bonuses are mostly superficial that don't add very much to the actual cost of manufacturing, and the EE cut is an outright savings.

I admit... I bit the bullet and ordered the $500 SKU from Amazon. I also got Resistance, the blu-ray remote, and A Christmas Story on BRD. I don't know why, but there was an extra $24.99 deducted from the price at checkout (effectively making the remote free). So that was a nice surprise.

Plus, there is the coupon for 5 free Blu-ray movies this summer. The list isn't that good, but they're free.

Still freaking pricey as all get out, though.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I ordered an HDMI cable for $7 shipped from monoprice.com.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #2153 on:** July 09, 2007, 02:34:45 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
EE is gone in the 80GB SKU?

Then I adjust my numbers a bit... That SKU probably nets them $90+ towards cutting costs. The bonuses are mostly superficial that don't add very much to the actual cost of manufacturing, and the EE cut is an outright savings.

I admit... I bit the bullet and ordered the $500 SKU from Amazon. I also got Resistance, the blu-ray remote, and A Christmas Story on BRD. I don't know why, but there was an extra $24.99 deducted from the price at checkout (effectively making the remote free). So that was a nice surprise.

Plus, there is the coupon for 5 free Blu-ray movies this summer. The list isn't that good, but they're free.

Still freaking pricey as all get out, though.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I ordered an HDMI cable for $7 shipped from monoprice.com.

Hope your blu-ray player doesn't burn out, which is why I will NEVER use my PS3 for Blu-Ray movies because of the wear and tear it puts on it (as with every other game system with DVD playback).

capamerica · « **Reply #2154 on:** July 09, 2007, 02:36:21 PM »

Its funny, For the $100 extra you get pretty much just get a extra 20GB of storage. Yet for the same $100 I could go out and upgrade the 60GB PS3 model to a 250GB drive.

Sony made the PS3 hard drive upgradeable yet no one is actually thinking about it. =/

capamerica · « **Reply #2155 on:** July 09, 2007, 02:41:02 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

Hope your blu-ray player doesn't burn out, which is why I will NEVER use my PS3 for Blu-Ray movies because of the wear and tear it puts on it (as with every other game system with DVD playback).

I would be more worried about Blu-Ray disc rot then the player getting burnt out.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #2156 on:** July 09, 2007, 02:48:02 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
Quote
Should be cutting features instead, such as blu-ray. A blu-ray free PS3 for 200-300 dollars less would solve their problems.

That would make their problem infinitely worse. The BRD drive doesn't cost that much, for one. And just eliminating it means they'd need to entirely start over from scratch this generation, recall and replace all systems, recall, re-develop and replace all games on the market, as well as redo all games in development. The PS3 as it is would retail for $300 before they could even recover from the cluster-f associated with that alternative.

I don't think that would be that big of a problem at all. The PS3 systems already out there can read regular DVD movies and CDs, can't they? They can play PS2 games, can't they? If they can read DVD media right now then all they need is a firmware upgrade for the PS3 to become a DVD video game console rather than (or in addition to) being a blu-ray game console.

They wouldn't have to recall or replace anything because a firmware upgrade could make the transition possible. Maybe they'd want to recall the current blu-ray games that are in stores and replace them with DVD alternatives because the Blu-ray free PS3s couldn't handle them, but for people who already own a blu-ray enabled PS3 it wouldn't really matter since they can play it as normal.

As for the games in development, this would be a trivial issue. Dvd or Blu-ray is just a storage medium, and the software doesn't really care which one it is on. Just like any other data doesn't care if it is on a CD or DVD... it reads from it just the same. Storage space might be an issue, but are there really any games out now that need more than 4.7gb of storage? Probably not many, and any that need to could be broken up into multiple discs.

So again, I think Sony really should make the Blu-ray aspect of the PS3 optional. A premium model could offer that capability for movies, but for people only looking for a gaming console they should have a far cheaper DVD model. Better yet, they could also offer an optional blu-ray drive add-on just like the 360 has a HD add-on. Nice for movies, but not really essential for video games.

EasyCure · « **Reply #2157 on:** July 09, 2007, 03:50:43 PM »

You bought A Christmas Story on BRD..?

BigJim · « **Reply #2158 on:** July 09, 2007, 04:59:01 PM »

Like I said, the BRD does not add $200-300 to the price. Removing it now does far more damage for them than it fixes.

Having incompatible SKUs of games and consoles out in the wild IS a huge problem. Recalling and replacing dozens of products is also a huge problem.

Not all software is medium agnostic. Games are engineered to BRD specs including loading times, access times, etc. There is no simple "compress and make it work on DVD" fix. They would have to re-call, re-code, re-test, re-manufacture, and re-ship.

That you downplay the immense cost of all that puzzling. Not to mention the horrendous PR and business damage it would do with developers and gamers.

Not an option, and pretty much irrelevant because a BRD-less system does not a $300 console make. I guarantee you it'd still be over $400 even after today's price drop.

Quote
You bought A Christmas Story on BRD..?

Yep! Jealous?

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #2159 on:** July 09, 2007, 05:47:57 PM »

If the BRD doesn't account for a big chunk of the PS3's cost then why do stand alone BR players cost so much?

BigJim · « **Reply #2160 on:** July 09, 2007, 08:24:07 PM »

They follow more contemporary rules of supply and demand, which consoles don't. Those players are being sold for profits, not just the manufacturers but the retailers are also taking generous slices.

I don't know the whole timetable of the bill of materials of BRDs, but according to a number of tech news outlets, blu-ray diodes have cost around only $8 in bulk since May, after ramping production to 1.7 mil/month in April. They're also prepping to beef it up to 5 mil/month before too long. That price doesn't include the entire drive (which supposedly cost something like $125-$150 before the diode supply improved), but at least as of now costs are better and will be improving more from here on out.

So in a nutshell this is why stripping BRD now isn't a good choice. The BRD cost will fix itself with much less damage than re-manufacturing products. The CPU and GPU are going to be the biggest contributors to the price, and only time and die shrinks are going to help that.

The 360's upcoming 65nm die shrinks, for example, will cut the manufacturing costs roughly in half on those parts. That'll be Sony's next big break too.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #2161 on:** July 09, 2007, 10:06:14 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis
SATA are the smaller 2.5" Harddrives that are typically used on laptops

Bull. SATA is the connector, the harddrive size is independent of that. I have a 3.5" SATA drive in my PC. Conversely you can get 2.5" drives that use IDE.

Flames_of_chaos · « **Reply #2162 on:** July 10, 2007, 07:07:25 AM »

Thats true KDR but a lot of people refer to SATA HDD's as the 2.5" harddrives but whatever.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #2163 on:** July 10, 2007, 07:25:24 AM »

I think BigJim makes a compelling argument...and in addition to that, we need to remember that Blu-ray is just as important to Sony as video games. I'm skeptical about its chances, but if it did take off, it would mean all kinds of money for Sony over the next decade or so until a new medium emerges.

It's funny/scary how many of the failures and victories we are seeing right now are caused by business decisions made two, three or even more years ago:

Sony: We'll use Playstation as a trojan horse for all our latest, greatest technologies!
Result: A high-priced games console that includes a bunch of features that not everyone wants.

MS: We must beat Sony no matter what!
Result: Xbox 360 hardware suffers various defects because it was rushed to market and (possibly) uses cheap parts.

Nintendo: We need to get out of this race with Sony and Microsoft. Let's make a console for moms!
Result: Wii sells extremely well to "non-gamers", but some traditional games suffer so-so sales and third parties aren't sure what to make of it.

Mikintosh · « **Reply #2164 on:** July 10, 2007, 08:47:52 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey

Nintendo: We need to get out of this race with Sony and Microsoft. Let's make a console for moms!
Result: Wii sells extremely well to "non-gamers", but some traditional games suffer so-so sales and third parties aren't sure what to make of it.

If we're talking about Zelda, its sales were only slightly hampered by the fact that it was "traditional"; the other Zelda games did not come out at launch and so had an established console base when they were released and also didn't have to compete with another system launch (PS3). And I think Madden 07 showed that 3rd party games can be established quitely nicely on the Wii. Didn't Red Steel sell well, regardless of the reviews?

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #2165 on:** July 10, 2007, 03:36:27 PM »

Zelda TP had to compete with a Gamecube version of itself... plus not many people owned a Wii and still don't, because it is always sold out. Whenever I find a Wii and can afford it, you can be sure Zelda TP will be one of my first games. Problem is, I don't even have a Wii yet, lol. Anyeay, that's the reason its sales aren't as good as they would have been.

stevey · « **Reply #2166 on:** July 10, 2007, 04:02:11 PM »

Quote
If we're talking about Zelda, its sales were only slightly hampered by the fact that it was "traditional"; the other Zelda games did not come out at launch and so had an established console base when they were released

Not true, Zelda 1 (in japan) launch as the flagship title for the Famicom disk system and was the best selling Zelda in japan.

MLS_man_64 · « **Reply #2167 on:** July 11, 2007, 07:06:45 AM »

Killzone 2 delayed till 2008.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=14638

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #2168 on:** July 11, 2007, 06:37:22 PM »

the coast is clear for MGS4 to save...! oh nevermind

Adrock · « **Reply #2169 on:** July 11, 2007, 07:16:15 PM »

Part of me wants Konami to announce a 360 port right before MGS4 is released on PS3. Not really as retribution for RE4 (even though that was Capcom), I just think it'd be funny. A good laugh is worth more than brand loyalty.

Kairon · « **Reply #2170 on:** July 11, 2007, 07:59:03 PM »

Part of me wants Sony to do good because I'm of the opinion that when MS turns it's attention to pwning Nintendo, things'll go south for us real quick.

Adrock · « **Reply #2171 on:** July 11, 2007, 08:11:45 PM »

Really?

The way I see it, if 360 beats out PS3, Microsoft wouldn't have beaten Sony, Sony beat Sony, just like Sony didn't beat Nintendo, Nintendo mostly did that to themselves. As long as Nintendo stays smart, I think Microsoft will have a hard time taking Nintendo down.

Kairon · « **Reply #2172 on:** July 11, 2007, 08:17:39 PM »

As long as Nintendo stays profitable, I think they'll be able to survive, but I have nightmares of MS marginalizing Nintendo back to GC levels. Well, not really, but I can't look at MS' long history of copying features and products and strongarming and taking over market segments in the past and not end up concerned...

Urkel · « **Reply #2173 on:** July 11, 2007, 08:27:36 PM »

Nintendo's ideas get copied no matter who they're competing with.

I think at worst MS will end up being a Sega-esque rival to Nintendo. (Old Sega, not New Stupid Sega)

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #2174 on:** July 11, 2007, 08:31:24 PM »

I think in the gaming industry MS would be an excellent competitor, they will bring the best out of Nintendo. It is not a NIntendo they can easily buy out so in turn I think it would make for some excellent competition.

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Author Topic: Sony getting hit Hard lately (Read 867755 times)