Topic: Mario Galaxy Multiplayer....

[Donutt007]

Just came accross this thought I would share.

You can find the link HERE

E3... it was fun. We saw Wii, we saw new DS stuff and we finally saw the spiritual sequel to Mario 64 in the form of Super Mario Galaxy. Innovative, good looking and a joy to play... pity we didn't get more information. Well, ONM snatched a few words with Shigeru Miyamoto and managed to gleam a few more details about the game. Such as whether it'll make launch...

"It is progressing quite well, but as you may have heard, it's often said that when I get involved in a project I upend the tea table and that tends to delay things! so rather than promise everyone it'll be a launch title for now and then have to break that promise later, I'll say no for now but say that if it's not a launch title it'll be out within the first six month of launch."


So we'd already deduced this already, luckily the short interview got a lot more interesting when the question of multiplayer in Mario Galaxy came up...

"One thing I've always wanted to do with the Mario games is alow for one player to play as Mario and for other players to join in. The way that the Wii Remote works, given that we can have up to four Wii Remotes using the player functionality simultaneously,it would allow one player to control Mario, wih the other players using the Wii Remote to help him out or get in his way ."


Interesting stuff, so one character... one game... but four players. However the next line is really the best bit of the interview.

"I think implementing this functionality into past games could make for some exciting changes"


Past games? So does this mean that the implementation of the Wii Remote into VC games is back on? Here's hoping...

Stick with C3 for more news as we get it..

[JonLeung]

I don't see how or why they'd be able to or should chop up these old games and insert new features.

I could see maybe allowing for an online opponent/partner to be the second player (or third or fourth) but that doesn't affect the gameplay much and they could overcome that with some kind of universal "take-input-from-someone-else-over-the-Internet-as-input-for-Player-2" coding for the Virtual Console.  Maybe voice chat to go with that during gameplay, but nothing more than what you would get from two people in the room playing the original.

But if they're going to introduce new features that affect gameplay, I'd rather they keep a close-to-original version.  (I expect they may clean up some spelling errors (like "Gannon" with two Ns) and maybe some Engrish (though Zero Wing for the Sega Genesis wouldn't be what it is if they took out the Engrish).)  But then if they do keep the original version and a new feature-full version they might as well make a whole new game.  Like a game called "Yoshi In Sub-Con", rather than sticking Yoshi into Super Mario Bros. 2.  They could even get away with charging more for that as a whole new oldschool game than if it was just Yoshi in SMB2 as it is.

[Ian Sane]

"I think implementing this functionality into past games could make for some exciting changes"

I hate this idea.  Just HATE it.  Why?  Because I tend to consider the pre-Cube Nintendo to be vastly more talented than today's Nintendo.  Nintendo has a lot of annoying habits now that were not present in their older games and those games are better off as a result.  I hate the changes they've made to GBA re-releases.  They add annoying voices or change the way Luigi plays or lower the difficulty.  I want the VC to feature authentic classic games as they were without Nintendo pulling a George Lucas and tinkering with them.  I guess I would be fine with them doing that if they had some sort of "classic mode" which is exactly like the original version.  But classic Nintendo games with modern Nintendo thumbprints all over them doesn't sound too enticing.

"The way that the Wii Remote works, given that we can have up to four Wii Remotes using the player functionality simultaneously,it would allow one player to control Mario, wih the other players using the Wii Remote to help him out or get in his way"

Seems like a neat idea I guess.  It's kind of hard for me to tell what he means.  Nintendo is really pushing multiplayer and playing with people with the Wii.  They're trying to avoid the stereotype of the lone gamer.  The thing is I LIKE playing games alone.  It's one of those things I can do to relax and get away from everyone for a little while.  I enjoy the company of my friends and family but sometimes I just want them to all f*ck off and leave me to my own devices.

[Bill Aurion]

I have no problem with adding new functionality to classic games as long as the original product is there, which I believe will be the case...

I tend to be a lone gamer myself, but there are always times where I wish I had more multiplayer games...So as long as the single-player is fully-fleshed, I have absolutely no qualms with added multiplayer...

[willie1234]

100% agree with Ian.  VC games should be as close to exactly the same experience as using a used NES etc.

Having said that, I hope the do continue the trend of _new_ 2d mario type games on the Wii.  There you could play with gameplay style a la smash bros.  Personally, Viewtiful Joe was one of my favorite GC games, showing that there is a lot of room for 2d innovation left.

[Luigi Dude]

"I think implementing this functionality into past games could make for some exciting changes"

All that line says was that they'd add some sort of multiplayer type mode into some of their classic games.  It says nothing about changing things in the actual games themselves.  

The Famicom Mini (NES Retro) re-releases for the GBA had nothing changed in them, they were the exact same game just emulated to the GBA.  That's because they were meant to be the an exact version of the game, which is what the games on the Virtual Console are also meant to be.

The Mario Advance games weren't supposed to be exact ports, they were meant to be upgraded portable version of the games which is why changes were made to them so they'd feel new, even though some changes like added voice work were not needed.

Plus this is Nintendo who loves finding ways of making money.  If they did make changes to the single player in any classic games, they'd more then likely have that as a different game to download.  Meaning on the download list you'd be looking at Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Bros Special Edition.  This way you'd have to download both games if you wanted to get the original and remake, which seems like something Nintendo would be more likely to do.  

Since they had no problem charging $20 for 20 year old games seperately on the GBA to maxuimize profits.  Even though they easily could have put all the games on just one GBA cartridge and charged $20 for it.

[Ceric]

I agree with everyone above me.  I would also add I wouldn't mind updated graphics version as long as the original graphic version comes with.

I am also amazed at how many games today don't even have a trivial 2 player mode.  On the cube it seemed like it was all or nothing.

[Hostile Creation]

Aren't you the one always asking for options, Ian?  It's not like they're denying you the original game, they're simply offering more.  Possibly, it's not even for sure.  And GBA re-releases?  The original game still exists.  Some people might prefer the version with the changes (especially if they don't have nostalgia pleasuring them), options options options.

If I download a VC game, I want to be able to play it the original way.  But that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to at least try something new with it as well.  Most Nintendo games I won't download because I've ALREADY PLAYED THEM.  In many cases own them.  No reason to get it again, but maybe if the implimentation is interesting (who knows, could be) I'd try it.

Edit: As a side note, I find Nintendo's progressive approach much more interesting than just making all the crap they've ever made the same, always.  I played NSMB and found myself relatively bored with it, probably because I'd already felt I'd played it about six times.  Even if there was plenty of new stuff, I daresay I preferred Sunshine to NSMB just because it felt unique.

[Artimus]

I think we can finally understand why Ian is so angry: he has no friends to play video games with him.

[JonLeung]

Now that I think about it, as a longtime Nintendo fan since the days of the NES, I likely already have played all the best games.  And most of those that I actually own are Nintendo's own first-party games, which are the ones most guaranteed to be on the Virtual Console.

The price will determine whether I'll get games for purely "collecting" purposes.  And that's one reason new oldschool games don't interest me as much - there's no nostalgia there.  Yes, I'd pay money AGAIN for Super Mario Bros. 3...but I'd be hesitant to buy a new game based on the SMB3 engine.

EDIT: I just realized how wishy-washy I sounded.  First I say I already own the originals, sort of almost about to accept new variations of games, then I say I'd willingly buy the originals again and denounce new features.  Blargg!

[Ian Sane]

"Aren't you the one always asking for options, Ian? It's not like they're denying you the original game, they're simply offering more."

Well I'm talking about situations where the original game would no longer be available.  As in Nintendo tinkers with VC games in the same manner they tinkered with SNES ports on the GBA.  Yeah we can still get a used copy of the original game but how long is that going to be a realistic way to obtain classic games?  In thirty years do you think it will be so easy to get a working copy of an NES game?  Since this is the first real attempt for a console maker to make classic games available on a wide scale I think it's important it be done right.  The original versions of games should be passed down to future generations.

Though there are a few exceptions I would make.  Donkey Kong should not be being re-released in the inferior three level NES version anymore even if that is historically accurate to the original NES release.  It really shouldn't even have been released on the NES in the first place since it was established years before the NES came out in North America that Famicom games had enough space on them for all four levels.  It really bothers me that it wasn't "fixed" for Donkey Kong Classics or the e-Reader, Animal Crossing, or GBA re-releases.  That is the sort of thing I'm talking about.  An inferior port of the game was released and THAT is the version being passed on, instead of the superior original arcade game.  That shows the real lack of attention Nintendo (and the gaming industry in general) shows towards game history.  Donkey Kong should be the arcade version and always the arcade version aside from releasing variations like the NES version strictly for historical purposes.  I'm afraid if Nintendo releases a tinkered version of something like Super Mario Bros that 20 years from now when they decide to do a re-release that version is what is used while the original is forgotten about.

Anyway since as far as I know Nintendo isn't going to have an arcade emulator for the VC I would have no problem if they added the missing level to the NES version since that version was supposed to be an arcade port anyway.  But that's an rare case where the "that isn't what I meant to do" arguement actually stands up.  The best way to do things would be to treat things like some DVDs where the original cut and the special director's cut of a film are available on the same disc.  It would be best if I chose to download Donkey Kong and got the Arcade and NES version and perhaps some variation Nintendo now wanted to make.

[wandering]

Quote
Seems like a neat idea I guess. It's kind of hard for me to tell what he means. Nintendo is really pushing multiplayer and playing with people with the Wii. They're trying to avoid the stereotype of the lone gamer. The thing is I LIKE playing games alone. It's one of those things I can do to relax and get away from everyone for a little while. I enjoy the company of my friends and family but sometimes I just want them to all f*ck off and leave me to my own devices.

Even the original super mario bros had a multiplayer mode!

I agree with you about the VC games, though. I'm fine with them creating updated versions of their old games, but the original versions need to be avalable...complete with their low resolutions. I'm a purist.

[Donutt007]

Well I think the old games should be left as is but have the option to change things

Imagine the orignal Donky Kong...except one player could actually control DK and choose when to throw the barrels and stuff. Or playing as Bowser in super mario brothers. Or maybe Super Mario brothers similar to Four Swords, with four Mario's on the screen! Just a few random thoughts, doubt they would happen but fun to think of

[18 Days]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Aren't you the one always asking for options, Ian? It's not like they're denying you the original game, they're simply offering more."

Well I'm talking about situations where the original game would no longer be available.  As in Nintendo tinkers with VC games in the same manner they tinkered with SNES ports on the GBA.  Yeah we can still get a used copy of the original game but how long is that going to be a realistic way to obtain classic games?  In thirty years do you think it will be so easy to get a working copy of an NES game?  Since this is the first real attempt for a console maker to make classic games available on a wide scale I think it's important it be done right.  The original versions of games should be passed down to future generations.

Though there are a few exceptions I would make.  Donkey Kong should not be being re-released in the inferior three level NES version anymore even if that is historically accurate to the original NES release.  It really shouldn't even have been released on the NES in the first place since it was established years before the NES came out in North America that Famicom games had enough space on them for all four levels.  It really bothers me that it wasn't "fixed" for Donkey Kong Classics or the e-Reader, Animal Crossing, or GBA re-releases.  That is the sort of thing I'm talking about.  An inferior port of the game was released and THAT is the version being passed on, instead of the superior original arcade game.  That shows the real lack of attention Nintendo (and the gaming industry in general) shows towards game history.  Donkey Kong should be the arcade version and always the arcade version aside from releasing variations like the NES version strictly for historical purposes.  I'm afraid if Nintendo releases a tinkered version of something like Super Mario Bros that 20 years from now when they decide to do a re-release that version is what is used while the original is forgotten about.

Anyway since as far as I know Nintendo isn't going to have an arcade emulator for the VC I would have no problem if they added the missing level to the NES version since that version was supposed to be an arcade port anyway.  But that's an rare case where the "that isn't what I meant to do" arguement actually stands up.  The best way to do things would be to treat things like some DVDs where the original cut and the special director's cut of a film are available on the same disc.  It would be best if I chose to download Donkey Kong and got the Arcade and NES version and perhaps some variation Nintendo now wanted to make.

AUGH I'm drowning!  

[Deguello]

You see, Ian?  You see why most forumers are getting tired of your posts in general?

Basically, you want nothing on the Virtual Console that you already deemed useless to be altered in anyway, EXCEPT what you would have altered in some way, even though you indicate you might not even use Virtual Console at all, therefore not affecting you in anyway.

This is your argument in a nutshell, gleamed over quite a few paragraphs of keyboard masturbation.  And it is quite flawed.  You want to preserve the integrity of all VC titles based on historical tradition, except those titles you would have altered even if it means destroying the historical tradition behind it.

I'm actually kinda disappointed.  It's usually tougher to deconstruct one of your rants.  

Quote
change the way Luigi plays

I would enjoy knowing when you think this happened.

[Ian Sane]

"You see, Ian? You see why most forumers are getting tired of your posts in general?"

Most forumers or just you?  I don't break the rules and I treat the other forumers with respect so lay off and quit jumping on me every time I post something.  I fail to see how my posts are any more annoying than your rants about me.

[Kairon]

Let me kill all hype for what Miyamoto commented on in regards to Mario Galaxy multiplayer:

*ahem*

It sounds a lot like Wind Waker's multiplayer functionality.

That is all.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"You see, Ian? You see why most forumers are getting tired of your posts in general?"

Most forumers or just you?  I don't break the rules and I treat the other forumers with respect so lay off and quit jumping on me every time I post something.  I fail to see how my posts are any more annoying than your rants about me.

I think it's most people...

[Hostile Creation]

"I would enjoy knowing when you think this happened."

Super Mario Brothers 2