Author Topic: The end of the Playstation Era?  (Read 27705 times)

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Offline willie1234

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RE: The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2006, 07:01:56 AM »
my understanding is that on the whole, sony has not been doing well.  it would not surprise me if the high price was set by the over all corperation feeling the need to recoup more of the profits, or not being able to subsidize the hardware as much this time.

Offline Khushrenada

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2006, 09:47:00 PM »
So, I checked out this article and they had a poll asking if you would pay $599 for a system and then asking which console you would but. Of course, I clicked No and Wii. Weird thing is, 75% of people have said no to paying $599 and yet the PS3 is the console most people would buy at 49%, followed by Xbox360 at 33% and Nintendo Wii at 18%. I don't get that.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2006, 11:48:29 PM »
1.  In reality, they won't pay $599.
2.  In fantasy, they'd like to have a PS3 (cuz sure as hekk it won't be a reality with that price).
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Offline Dryden

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2006, 11:51:13 PM »
Sony will be FINE, though lose market share.

You know, I think people are underestimating Sony.  They'll come out fine.
1.  They are a major multi-faceted corporation, with some of Hollywood in their pocket, or at least behind Blu-Ray.
2.  The install base for the PS2 - which launched at a high price as well - is astounding.  The PS3 is directly for that market.
3.  Sony's a juggernaut advertiser.
4.  Sony's console is more 'typical' - which means more movie to game adaptations, by a long shot.  (Godfather + Wii-mote = ???)
5.  Nintendo isn't known for realism in its games, nor will it be this generation - PS3 / XBox have this down.
6.  The technology behind the good games - hitting a year after launch (read: LucasArts) is phenominal

 Actually, lets talk about that quick:  take a look at the LucasArts demo, with the PS3 powering new physics and AI enginges.  For them, it was just a quick demo, showing the end of canned animations and the beginning of immersive, realistic environments.  Apply it to any genre:
    Fighting games with real-time muscle movements and realistic body reactions... (Bushido Blade becoming true-life, Fight Night reacting truly, no more juggling in Tekken)
    Games with cars that crash / drive with perfect phsyics (Grand Theft Auto realtime accurate car damage, Gran Turismo control like we've never seen, explosions in Twisted Metal having nothing to do with a life bar, and everything to do with the car's mechanics)
    FPS / Adventure games that have no scripted movements for enemies, only AI reactions (Bond missions would never be the same, enemies moving around)
    And the big one for North America: Sports.  Say goodbye to canned animations at EA in two years.  Motion capture will only be a base for new sports games.  A game of Madden will look like an NFL game, at least in physics.  And the PS3 is capable of monitoring bone density in hockey players; combined with the weight, speed and angle, we've got an accurate injury simulator.


You get the point.  Nintendo can't hope to have this kind of play.  Control is great, but on the PS3, my hockey / football games aren't going to look like video games anymore.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2006, 01:30:56 AM »
The PS2 is the console with the most bargain titles available. I do think that was a big factor in its success. I can grab three or four PS2 titles for the price of one Gamecube title (of course the PS2 titles would be bargain bin games but those are almost nonexistent on the GC).

The PS3 does nothing the XCircle doesn't do (except "cost 600$") so it'll have a hard time taking the market back in the west. It'll be a big player in Japan but I imagine the average gamer in the US will look at both, see that both play Madden and GTA and decide to go with the much cheaper XCircle (that also has full bargain bins already because it's been out for longer). Or, if the person only wants his Madden he might look at the Wii and decide that "easier to use" is right up his alley.

(Godfather + Wii-mote = ???)

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2006, 11:40:55 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Dryden
Sony will be FINE, though lose market share.

You know, I think people are underestimating Sony.  They'll come out fine.
1.  They are a major multi-faceted corporation, with some of Hollywood in their pocket, or at least behind Blu-Ray.
2.  The install base for the PS2 - which launched at a high price as well - is astounding.  The PS3 is directly for that market.
3.  Sony's a juggernaut advertiser.
4.  Sony's console is more 'typical' - which means more movie to game adaptations, by a long shot.  (Godfather + Wii-mote = ???)
5.  Nintendo isn't known for realism in its games, nor will it be this generation - PS3 / XBox have this down.
6.  The technology behind the good games - hitting a year after launch (read: LucasArts) is phenominal

 Actually, lets talk about that quick:  take a look at the LucasArts demo, with the PS3 powering new physics and AI enginges.  For them, it was just a quick demo, showing the end of canned animations and the beginning of immersive, realistic environments.  Apply it to any genre:
    Fighting games with real-time muscle movements and realistic body reactions... (Bushido Blade becoming true-life, Fight Night reacting truly, no more juggling in Tekken)
    Games with cars that crash / drive with perfect phsyics (Grand Theft Auto realtime accurate car damage, Gran Turismo control like we've never seen, explosions in Twisted Metal having nothing to do with a life bar, and everything to do with the car's mechanics)
    FPS / Adventure games that have no scripted movements for enemies, only AI reactions (Bond missions would never be the same, enemies moving around)
    And the big one for North America: Sports.  Say goodbye to canned animations at EA in two years.  Motion capture will only be a base for new sports games.  A game of Madden will look like an NFL game, at least in physics.  And the PS3 is capable of monitoring bone density in hockey players; combined with the weight, speed and angle, we've got an accurate injury simulator.


You get the point.  Nintendo can't hope to have this kind of play.  Control is great, but on the PS3, my hockey / football games aren't going to look like video games anymore.


I think you are overestimating Sony. The PS2 at $300 was only a $100 over the mainstream pricepoint of $200. The PS3 on the other hand is $400 above a mainstream price point. This will greatly hinder Sony. Most consoles are sold when a system hits a $200 pricepoint. It will take the PS3, three or four years to reach such a price point. Meanwhile, MS and Nintendo will have been long reached such levels. Sony's PS2 had a year head start to build a large userbase, leveraging that userbase with the Playstation name allowed Sony to hold on through significant game drought and go on to win this generation. The PS3 is giving the 360 a year head start and unlike the X-box and Gamecube, the PS3 is not meeting or beating the price point of the next gen market leader which is Microsoft by default. Most gamers will not be able to pay the $600 that Sony is asking, this will allow MS to continue to build its lead in the western markets until Sony can get its price to a reasonable level. Unlike the PS2, the PS3 has a extra feature in Blu-Ray that most of the public does not want or need. The PS2 leveraged the DVD playing aspect, a feature which most of the public (gaming and non gaming) wanted to get their hands on, to ensure a rapid growth of the PS2 userbase. Most people don't have HDTV's and not even all HDTV owners have the necessary HDMI support needed to take advantage of Blu-Ray.

Sony, like Nintendo with the N64, is overestimating their strength. They are leaving themselves open to defeat. The Wii is poised to crush the PS3 in Japan. The Wii is following in the steps of the DS and with a $400 price advantage and similar "non games" available for it, the Wii will is now almost guaranteed the number 1 spot in Japan. The Japanese gaming market had been eroding but the DS has been able to reach people that had previously  never gamed or had given it up. The Wii has the same aim. Not having the number one position in Japan will weaken Sony's hold on Japanese based third party exclusives. In the West, Sony has left themselves open on two fronts. Nintendo is seeking to reach a similar market in West as it has had in Japan. In the US, that market does not seem as big. So, MS will likely reap the rewards of Sony's stupidity. I think MS will win the US market with Nintendo being a close second. Sony will repeat the N64 pattern, they will start off with a bang and slowly fade away. In Europe, I don't who will win. The DS is doing better in Europe than Japan so that would seem to indicate that the Wii's unique style will do better there than in the US. I think MS or Nintendo will take Europe. It depends on how fast Nintendo can grow the non gamer market and how much of the conventional market MS will usurp from Sony. In short, I think Sony will be last this generation. As for worldwide? I think MS will edge out Nintendo. The US market seems to buy the most consoles and I think MS's presence here will counteract their lack of presence in Japan.

The PS3 for a graphics standpoint is not better than the 360. The GPU in the 360 is actually more powerful than the RSX in the PS3 by all accounts. The RSX, GPU of PS3, from all the specs I have gathered seems to be a slightly modified GeForce 7800. The 360's GPU has more pixel and vertex shaders and a much higher bandwith. Sony has been displaying Cell specs where ever they can, but they have been giving more general specs on their GPU. The Cell processors single core seems near identical to one of the 360s cores from its three core CPU. The SPUs cannot operate seperately from the main core of the Cell which seems to be counter productive. The cores of the 360 CPU can operate independantly of each other. The Cell seems to be more of a general purpose processor. If its power can be harnessed it may be able to outstrip the 360 but I don't think it likely.

Sony should have used the extra year to ensure its chipset was superior to the 360s in all respects. Outside of having faster Main Ram. The PS3 seems to have devoted too much of its cost to its Blu-Ray drive. To MS' credit, most of if not all of the 360's technology seems to be focused on delivering the most technically impressive HD graphics possible. While not everyone can take notice of this because the majority of us have standard definition TV's, at least the 360's hardware is less media hub/movie player and more game console. The PS3 seems to be the console version of the PSP which is current going the route of the Sega Game Gear. Starting with a bang, and slowly fading into the background. Sony has given away their market leader ship in another failed attempt to force a proprietary medium on the public. Nintendo has taken the purest console approach. The Wii is just a games machine. Only this time, unlike the Gamecube, Nintendo has insured that the Wii is unique. The controller will be reason for the Wii's success. It will be interesting watching MS and Nintendo take down Sony. As usual, the gaming market leadership is never won by the underdog. Instead, the market leaders unbelievable arrogance always leads to their downfall.  
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Offline Grant10k

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2006, 02:30:57 PM »
The gap is already slowly closing
Past internet searches on Nintendo/Playstation


And in this graph, you can see how the Wii shoots past the competition just before the finish line:
Graph for Wii/Playstation
Of course this graph is skewed because 'wii' didn't exist until like, a month ago.
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Offline Ages

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2006, 06:11:00 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Grant10k
The gap is already slowly closing
Past internet searches on Nintendo/Playstation


And in this graph, you can see how the Wii shoots past the competition just before the finish line:
Graph for Wii/Playstation
Of course this graph is skewed because 'wii' didn't exist until like, a month ago.


Thats not really the best indicator of which system will be better

DS vs. PSP

Apparantly, the PSP is kicking ass in terms of trend history around the world, including Japan.  So either all the PSP haxxors are searching for this stuff, the nongamer strategy is working (thus no searches), or Google Trends is full of sh!t.
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Offline The Omen

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2006, 06:11:31 PM »
Quote

This is definately not the end of the playstation era. While nintendo could certainly gain ground on them, the fact remains that there are the PS2 sold 33 million consoles in the U.S. with Xbox and Game Cube selling 14 and 11 million consoles. There are still alot of people who are going to buy the PS3 based on Sony variety of titles and the fact that they have the best game designers working for them.(Activision, Square Enix, Capcom, Konami, Namco, ect.)


I guess we don't have many business analysts in our midst...

If there's one thing we know, it's complacent, arrogant companies can commit suicide with one bad decision.  I'll ask you how much of the market Nintendo owned going into the N64 era.  Then I'll ask you how much Sony took by the end of that generation.  To think the same can't happen here is putting blinders on.  Lets also not forget that the N64 had better graphics, and at the time, had Square support.  It was pulled in favor of the Playstation, and I could see a similiar thing happening here.  What you have to realize is the gamers who made the Playstation huge are a house of cards.  A fickle lot who have no brand loyalty.  They will have no problem buying a 360 and a Wii for less than the PS3 as long as Nintendo has the Japanese companies in tow (which they do), and the 360 covers the west (and they do), I can see it as clear as day-I'm not waiting for FF on the PS3 when I can get a multitude of better titles at launch for the Wii, and in the third generation of 360 games.  The crushing blow will be at this years space world, or the GDC where Nintendo announces a price point $400 less than the PS3.  Then they announce FF 13.  It is officially over at that point.  Also, with MS painting Nintendo as the logical second system, there will be a huge backlash against Sony.
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Offline Grant10k

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2006, 07:37:56 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ages
Quote

Originally posted by: Grant10k
[a bunch of stuff that I said]


Thats not really the best indicator of which system will be better

DS vs. PSP

Apparantly, the PSP is kicking ass in terms of trend history around the world, including Japan.  So either all the PSP haxxors are searching for this stuff, the nongamer strategy is working (thus no searches), or Google Trends is full of sh!t.

Or perhaps I just liked the way this graph is showing a trend that i'm in favor of so I didn't exactly have my crack research team go out and prove myself wrong.
However, trends are probably good for determining public interest. The masses are more interested in the PSP, if you see a best buy commercial, they are advertising that you can buy the latest hip gear (a PSP) at their store, not a DS. On the other hand, interest doesnt nessisarilly make a system more popular. For example, one internet user might wonder if the PSP can play DVDs, so he does a search on it, a search on the best price, a search to check what people think of it, but then does one search on the ds, goes to the store and impulse buys one. My point is that this graph may be skewed in six random directions, but I'm still going to post it because I favor the way the trend is going. Accuracy can kiss my ass.
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Offline Mario

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RE: The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2006, 08:10:51 PM »
PS3 is going to succeed no matter what, I know people who are already putting a thousand dollars into the system after just seeing the PSP Wing Mirror function in F1 06. Also, on the news here they had an E3 special with 20 minutes devoted to PS3 and nothing about Wii, Sony has this weird grasp on the media that will get them hype through anything. In Japan however I think Wii could come out in front of PS3.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2006, 11:54:37 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mario
PS3 is going to succeed no matter what, I know people who are already putting a thousand dollars into the system after just seeing the PSP Wing Mirror function in F1 06. Also, on the news here they had an E3 special with 20 minutes devoted to PS3 and nothing about Wii, Sony has this weird grasp on the media that will get them hype through anything. In Japan however I think Wii could come out in front of PS3.


Sometimes I wonder if Japanese gamers are vastly more intelligent when it comes to gaming tastes, they appreciate creativity and innovation.
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Offline SixthAngel

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RE: The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2006, 12:05:41 AM »
Doesn't the PS3 need to dominate to be well, profitable or at least make blu-ray a success.  I don't see either of those definitely happening especially after the usual launch sellouts end.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2006, 01:17:36 AM »
Well Sixth I think you are right, from what I gathered Sony could be losing upwards of 200$ per system, that is killer for a company that is already struggling financially. So they need to really do well and sell lots of games, heck even with all its western sucess I don't believe the Xbox brought any profit into MS. They had a huge loss on each console sold combined with advertising.
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Offline Kairon

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RE: The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2006, 01:21:20 AM »
One thing that worries me is that PS3 launch games will cost TONS to develop. If Sony can't manufacture or sell enough systems in their first 6 months, third parties financials are going to take a significant hit. It could be discouraging.

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2006, 01:27:56 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
One thing that worries me is that PS3 launch games will cost TONS to develop. If Sony can't manufacture or sell enough systems in their first 6 months, third parties financials are going to take a significant hit. It could be discouraging.

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Another good point, sure pretty graphics are great and all, but it takes alot to develop them. I just hope too many don't get hit hard, because I would hate to see companies hurt because of Sony's poor descisions. On the bright side this will shift them over to Wii since it will be vastly cheaper to develop for .
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2006, 03:37:44 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: VGrevolution
Sometimes I wonder if Japanese gamers are vastly more intelligent when it comes to gaming tastes, they appreciate creativity and innovation.


AHAHAHahaahahahaaa!! Yeah, innovation like 5% less clothing in the next Final Fantasy, not changing anything for the next Dragon Quest, a few new features for Winning Eleven n+1 and of course Pokemon.

The buyers in Japan aren't any more intelligent than the buyers in the US. The only difference is that they are buying Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest instead of Madden or GTA. IOW they value graphics over gameplay.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2006, 08:56:04 AM »
Japan is usually the place to spawn the "quirky" titles though, heck I think part of the reason DS is so sucessful there is the uniqueness of the system while PSP is the same old thing. You are right about Dragon Quest and FF then again U.S. gamers eat up FF too.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2006, 05:57:42 AM »
I think Japanese and American gamers are just different.  America has quirky style games that are released and played...but they are a different type of quirky.  Its an American experience.  The same is true with Japan.  

We both also have the fluff games that come out and we will buy no matter what.  KDR brought up a good point.  RPGs are sometimes fluff games for Japanese gamers.  Just because a game has a story and is an RPG doesn't instantly mean a great experience or game.  

However, we believe it does mean that, because we get so few Japanese RPGs around here.  Also I believe Japan gets more fighting games than us.

Sure our fluff is First Person Shooters, Third Person Shooters (usually crime based) and Sports games.  But that doesn't mean other fluff is anymore better or worse than Japanese fluff.

Or something like that.


Offline Renny

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RE: The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2006, 09:03:31 AM »
Riiiidge Racer. It's Ridge Racer.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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RE: The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2006, 09:41:31 AM »
Arrogance at its best.....
Quote

Originally  posted by: ComputerAndVideogames
Despite Sony's pledge to reach a broad audience with PS3 during its launch window, Reeves admitted that appealing direct to the hardcore games playing fraternity will quickly become vital for the company in the next-gen console war.

"Without being too arrogant about it, I don't think we worry too much about building up the hype in the first six months, but where the rubber hits the road is going to be when all those hardcore gamers have bought PS3", said Reeves. "They have also bought Xbox 360 and they have probably bought Nintendo Wii as well."

However, Reeves maintained that shifting PS3s in the early days won't be a problem, such is the strength of the PlayStation brand: "We have built up a certain brand equity over time since the launch of PlayStation in 1995 and PS2 in 2000 that the first five million are going to buy it, whatever it is, even it didn't have games."


so 5 million sold, then what? Is everyone else really gonna want to put down $600 after already owning or considering a Wii or 360?

hahahaha
Quote

Advertisement:Precisely which PS3 titles will actually be available on launch day remains a mystery however, although Reeves told us that Insomniac's Resistance: Fall of Man "will certainly be a launch title". Worryingly, he said that Heavenly Sword, one of the PS3 titles at E3 that actually impressed people, won't hit until "after Christmas", as will the new Formula One game plus off-road racer Motorstorm.

they had to point out that one of the games actually impressed people, hahaha, how sad.  

Offline Mario

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RE: The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2006, 05:00:20 PM »
Wow... I don't think there's any chance in hell i'm buying a PS3 now, I just can't support that kind of attitude. I'm actually rooting for MS... how things change!

Offline Hocotate

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2006, 05:31:21 PM »
This takes the cake, N64 all over again... only MUCH worse. They're saying people will buy it no matter what, so they don't even have to try. Such ignorance, I don't think I've seen anything so ignorant in all my years of gaming.

"WHO NEEDS GOOD GAMES!? THE PLAYSTATION NAME WILL CARRY US!! JUST LIKE THE NINTENDO NAME CARRIED THE N64.... oh wait..."
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Offline Athrun Zala

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RE:The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2006, 07:06:14 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mario
I'm actually rooting for MS... how things change!
lol, me too!

but then, for me it isn't new, since when I was a kid I said I'd never buy a Sega console >_>
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: The end of the Playstation Era?
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2006, 12:08:37 AM »
Don't expect Microsoft to be any different if they manage to get the biggest part of the market. In fact expect them to be worse. MUCH worse. They love using illegal tactics to undermine the competition.