Author Topic: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.  (Read 44041 times)

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Offline UERD

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #125 on: September 05, 2007, 11:49:19 AM »
My latest novel uses 72-point font size text, is 20,000 pages long, and has a nifty holographic cover with an image that shifts depending on how you're holding it!

I also wrote it with the help of twenty monkeys sitting at twenty typewriters
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #126 on: September 05, 2007, 12:17:06 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Mashiro
Quote

Originally posted by: Ghisy
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Well, a discussion about it happened now. Know what the trolls said? "It has 1080p, 25GB game data and motion controls!"

Yeah, 25 GB of PHAIL!!


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Offline Mashiro

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #127 on: September 05, 2007, 12:22:16 PM »
. . . wow really?

Offline Ghisy

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #128 on: September 05, 2007, 08:51:56 PM »
Yup! I'm a guy! Sorry to disappoint you! haha
You may be confused by my avatar but that's Vanessa Carlton, just fyi!
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #129 on: September 05, 2007, 09:05:44 PM »
THAT'S Vanessa Carlton? Wow, I didn't recognize her with... all the...woah.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #130 on: September 05, 2007, 09:06:23 PM »
Oh, for a moment I thought it was one of those "let's call random people 'she'" jokes that seem to be popular here...

Offline Mashiro

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #131 on: September 06, 2007, 12:42:27 AM »
Lol it's ok . .. but yeah the avatar and "~*Ghisy*~" seemed . . . well seemed to indicate you were a girl.

::throws away flowers::

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CRYING.

Offline bustin98

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RE:Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #132 on: September 06, 2007, 05:28:44 AM »
I'm sorry but I gotta do it

:: Points at Mashiro and busts out laughing ::

Oh man. Thanks for one of the best laughs today!

I wonder how long it would take to get hit on if I change my avatar to a chic. Well, at least a better looking one than GP's (she's slightly better looking without the makeup, though she is pretty cool with all the scifi roles she has under her belt).

GC, seems you were prepared to be confused for someone else. Good attitude.

Offline Ghisy

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #133 on: September 06, 2007, 10:19:28 AM »
bustin98, actually, someone else on this board (can't remember who) thought I was a girl too.
I think I need to edit my signature! haha
Or maybe is it because I never swear? Well, f*ck that! ROFL
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #134 on: September 06, 2007, 10:39:46 AM »
Mashiro actually knew Ghisy was a guy, but then when everyone pointed it out he felt it'd be awkward to continue his charade! =O
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Offline Mashiro

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #135 on: September 06, 2007, 11:19:56 AM »
Lol.

And bustin I never hit on GC

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #136 on: September 07, 2007, 03:15:12 PM »
The title of this thread needs to be edited from "Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap." to "Factor 5's "Lair": Crap."  
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Offline stevey

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #137 on: September 07, 2007, 03:32:22 PM »
Sorry if this been posted before but D@mn, having to send out Reviewer's Guides to raise review scores=lol^9000

"oh I have to tilt the sixaxis, then run across the room for it to pick up the movement and turn my character little"  
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #138 on: September 08, 2007, 12:52:20 AM »
Sony also went out saying  about Lair: 'At the end of the day, I'll be interested in the consumers' response, because the consumer awareness for this title was so huge.'

IOW: "We hyped it like mad so we think it'll sell despite being utter ####"

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #139 on: September 08, 2007, 01:51:03 AM »
Then I bet the consumers are aware of how bad it is, too?
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Offline Ceric

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RE:Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #140 on: September 08, 2007, 03:20:20 AM »
I think that most of the motion related problems could be solved if Sony just implemented more sensitive motion controls in their controller.  Bring back the Batarang!
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Offline UERD

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #141 on: September 08, 2007, 04:11:36 AM »
Apparently, the controller can only sense one axis of motion at a time. (I forgot which reviewer said that, but I'll dig it up.)
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Offline Kairon

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RE:Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #142 on: September 08, 2007, 08:03:33 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: UERD
Apparently, the controller can only sense one axis of motion at a time. (I forgot which reviewer said that, but I'll dig it up.)


Wow. Yes, link please. That would be SO DISAPPOINTING if true.
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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline UERD

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #143 on: September 08, 2007, 09:23:56 AM »
From GameSpy's (abysmal) review:

Quote

And it gets worse, because the motion-sensing controls of Lair are incapable of registering tilt on more than one axis. That means that whenever you want to turn, you can forget about ascending or descending. Severely limiting your ability to actually play this game, the lack of control is a serious deficit to any kind of enjoyment you may seek.


(link: http://ps3.gamespy.com/playstation-3/lair/817994p1.html)

Note that the reviewer didn't say 'Sixaxis' in general, but mentioned the game implementation. So maybe the Sixaxis is capable of multi-axis, but this game wasn't programmed to take advantage of that.
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Offline bustin98

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RE:Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #144 on: September 09, 2007, 09:55:32 AM »
I have now played this game. And holy sh#t if this isn't Rogue Squadron without radar.

First: the controls. Actually, I didn't have much of an issue with them. At least nothing game breaking. Doing the 180 turn around takes some finesse, but nothing for someone with experience on the Wii. And that experience actually takes away from Lair. After spending hours on Metroid Prime 3, I've come acustomed to the sensitivity of the Wiimote. With Lair, there is a fair amount of dead space in the movement. At least in my opinion. My cousin, who owns the game, thought it was pretty sensitive. Now how it is with other games, I don't know. We played Warhawk but left the default controls on, which is the dual stick method.

Conclusion on controls: gimmick. Nothing being done can't be done on a dual stick setup. Warhawk even proves it. But they worked fine for the first two levels and the tutorials.

Graphics: Here we go again. A great big 'meh'. Its 'nice' to see all of the texture work, but people have fallen into the uncanny valley. And for all the hard work put into the graphics, you don't get to enjoy it because everything is so far away and you are concentrating on shooting down dragons or blowing up boats. The water effects were cool when a boat exploded, but really, is that worth the $500 pricetag of admission? There's also another 'Rogue Squadron' effect here: the shadows. Play Hoth and then this game and you'll see what I mean. The flickering shadows that suffer from anti-aliasing issues.

Conclusion on graphics: Nice, but less effort could have wielded similar results and maybe a steadier framerate (though framerate wasn't exactly an issue). Not exactly in the same league as Gears of War, but better than Resistance.

Presentation: This is Rogue Squadron. The way enemy dragons group together, the tow line that zips out, the 'dragon vision' that colors primary objectives, the medals and how they are scored. You even have 2 wingmen that you can command what to do. Its like they took the plan book for RS and slapped a fresh coat of paint on it. Only now there is no drawback to using the targeting computer, err I mean the 'dragon vision'. And the menu system = the same.

Conclusion of Presentation: If you like the past 3 Factor 5 games, you should like this one. Just don't expect anything to be different.

Overall: I had no glaring issues with this game. I do have issue with the hype and how it was being sold through the media. Its not a 5 or lower as nothing felt broken to me. Its not an 8 as nothing is ground breaking and developers need to challenge what they know rather than fall back on it. There is no growth, only a side step from one system to another. This isn't the game that makes you happy to have spent $2500 on a tv, nor does it justify your purchase of a PS3, but it does fill the empty space of waiting for other games to come out. If only Warhawk had a single player experience.

Score: 7 out of 10  

Offline Ceric

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RE:Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #145 on: September 10, 2007, 03:25:19 AM »
I'm holding off on getting Warhawk until there is a single player expansion for it.
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Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE:Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #146 on: September 10, 2007, 09:47:31 AM »
For all its faults, if Factor 5 had just replaced the dragons with X-Wings and slapped in a few Mon Calamari cruisers, I'd have been mighty tempted to buy a PS3.  I guess I should be thankful.

Of course, all these control complaints are just whining by hardcore reviewers who don't like motion controls.  They all hated on Wii Sports, too, and Lair is just the latest innocent victim of their muckraking.  So says Julian Eggsbenedict in this Empty V article.

Quote

"The Sixaxis motion control itself feels a lot more organic and free-form than the rigid controls of other flight games and does much better for casual players, as we saw in focus tests. It does seem to alienate some reviewers who are at the top of the hard-core crowd and seem to have a passionate hate for all things motion, be it 'Wii Sports' with sometimes absurdly low scores for what might become the defining game of this generation, or 'Lair' as their newest poster child of evil. It's an unfortunate development that, if the players themselves listen too much to the motion-hatred message, will divide the gaming community. Our potential for growth as an art form for the mainstream is in the easier-to-access control schemes that might be less precise but a lot of fun."


He's got a point.  I mean, just a little less than 2% of the reviews of Wii Sports scored it below 60, and 1/2 of the reviews of Lair did.  Since they both have a 2 in them, 2% and 1/2 are almost exactly the same.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #147 on: September 10, 2007, 04:33:16 PM »
Heaven forbid someone critisize motion controls, has it occured to people that some games just may just suck in motion control implementation? From what i understand (I have yet to see anyone who has played Lair dispute this) that later on the controls become a pain in the butt when it requires precision flying. Even in the IGN review they said it isn't that bad to control in the wide open environments, it is later that things turn ugly. What bothers me the most about Lair from what I've read is that the game did not require motion controls and really should have went the Warhawk route and let you have a choice. As it stands now, it looks like they may have feared that the game would be yet another Factor 5 flying game so they slapped in motion controls to try and change that image, though it appears to have fallen flat.
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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #148 on: September 10, 2007, 04:40:33 PM »
Kind of like how Dual Analogs don't really work for an FPS game, right?

Seriously, that's a terrible system.  I don't know how people can play most typically console FPSs.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Factor 5's "Lair". Holy crap.
« Reply #149 on: September 10, 2007, 04:45:49 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: thatguy
Kind of like how Dual Analogs don't really work for an FPS game, right?

Seriously, that's a terrible system.  I don't know how people can play most typically console FPSs.


I have no disagreement with you, it sounds like Lair should have stuck with traditional controls and FPS if they ever have the choice should stick to something like a Wiimote. Motion Controls have a lot of promise, but I don't want developers using them just to have them, instead I would like to see a balance. Heck I may have even bought Lair if it had traditional controls just as a time killer, but as it stands I'm still on the fence. There should have been an option for both control schemes.
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