Topic: Nintendo's Strategy is Paying Off

[Dolphin64X]

No, the Dreamcast was healthy from a games standpoint.  They had all the major genres covered, perhaps the best library ever achieved in the first year of a console.  What could kill a system with such great games?  Hype.  Hype, for the Playstation 2, stopped the Dreamcast dead in its tracks, to make room for a system whose games were, at the time, quite inferior to the titles the Dreamcast was recieving.

And yes, I do use the term inferior, because I do think it applies.  Now, your wife may love Super Mario Sunshine, but would she love a lower-quality platform game, say, Zapper, as much?  You may not like platform games, but to someone who does, the difference can easily be told.

And would you rather play Metroid Prime or Turok: Evolution?  One could argue that since both are first-person and both have some focus on exploration, they are similar, and a person could be happy with either one.

There is a difference between a quality game and a shoddy one.  The industry is young enough that we can still be subjective about the value of a game, to a certain degree.  A person can easily say that BMX XXX is a worse game than Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4, and not get any flak for it.  

The question comes down to, thecubedcanuck, would you rather have no Metroids and all Turok: Evolutions?  No THPSs and all BMX XXX?  There is a clear difference in quality between the games, regardless of personal opinion.

[thecubedcanuck]

Dolphin, you need to take off the rose colored glasses for a while.

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No, the Dreamcast was healthy from a games standpoint. They had all the major genres covered, perhaps the best library ever achieved in the first year of a console. What could kill a system with such great games? Hype. Hype, for the Playstation 2, stopped the Dreamcast dead in its tracks, to make room for a system whose games were, at the time, quite inferior to the titles the Dreamcast was recieving.

The PS2 is a great system, far supior to the dreamcast in my opinion. I didnt own a dreamcast because I cant stand most SEGA games. Also with Sony's success of the PS1 it was clear that the PS2 was going to have outstanding 3rd party support, and it also had backward capabilities enticing the PS1 owners,  making it the clear choice for people looking for a system.

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And yes, I do use the term inferior, because I do think it applies. Now, your wife may love Super Mario Sunshine, but would she love a lower-quality platform game, say, Zapper, as much? You may not like platform games, but to someone who does, the difference can easily be told.

Actually since you bring it up, she does like Zapper, and actuallt her favorite platformer is Pac Mac worlds. I to love platformers, and would have taken a dolled up  Mario 64 over sunshine. Sly cooter is a much superior game.

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And would you rather play Metroid Prime or Turok: Evolution? One could argue that since both are first-person and both have some focus on exploration, they are similar, and a person could be happy with either one.

I love Metroid, but dont think it is a good as many think. I also didnt mind Turok at all, I do think Timesplitters and splinter cell are better than both.

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There is a difference between a quality game and a shoddy one. The industry is young enough that we can still be subjective about the value of a game, to a certain degree. A person can easily say that BMX XXX is a worse game than Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4, and not get any flak for it.

What about the people that prefer BMX XXX, are they wrong for having made that choice? I dont think so, it is all opinion. I personally cant stand either game.

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The question comes down to, thecubedcanuck, would you rather have no Metroids and all Turok: Evolutions? No THPSs and all BMX XXX? There is a clear difference in quality between the games, regardless of personal opinion.

I dont see the differance in quality at all, its all about fun. If you like it, it is quality, simple as that.
You like way to many Nintendo lovers want to much, you seem to have forgotten how to have fun playing games, I dont care what anyone thinks about a game, I am not fussy on graphics or frame rate either, I play what I enjoy. What a novel approach isnt it.

[Frostie]

I'm actually kind of depressed that all these AAA games are coming out for my cube as I'm low in cash.

[Dolphin64X]

Haha, yeah.  But at least for now, we seem to be getting some good high-name third party stuff.

And for almost 2 years after the Playstation launched, its library was definitely thinner than the Dreamcast's.  What was their first big game?  Gran Turismo 3 A-Spec?  And when did it come out?  Summer??  Meanwhile the Dreamcast was getting good games.  Still, the Dreamcast is gone, which is only evidence of the poor judgment of consumers.  And yes, the Dreamcast had excellent games!  It's not too contested.  If you don't mind Nintendo leaving the game industry, then fine.  Don't care.  But I care, and I hate to see publishers pulling support from the GameCube.  Big-name developers making GameCube games is good news, though, and it helps for the next generation.

Regardless, there are serious problems in the industry.  What's the point of capitalism?  Competition forces companies to make better products, at better prices.  In the current industry, the better products are being ignored, in favor of more marketable ones, like: BOOBS! Ten years ago, no one would even suggest that Nintendo change their style.  Now people are (I'm not one of them), and why? To be like the other, shoddy games?  The free market is unhealthy in the videogames industry, plain and simple.

[Nintega]

It's not just about Nintendo, it's the whole industry.  We won't have anymore innovative, fun games to play if developers are more enticed to make money than to make a good game.  You can say it's a difference of opinion but when I say good game, I mean something different and new.  Not some copy cat product.  And this will become a problem if something isn't done about it.

[SilverBack1138]

I totally agree with a lot of you guys on this.  Like I've said several times on several forums.  Key Japanese developers are what Nintendo needs.  To be honest, I don't really care of a lot of 3rd party developer in general since they put out crap.  Even though some fanboys are bragging that some 3rd party developers are leaving the cube, they are so wrong.  These developer aren't leaving, they are just reducing the number of titles.  The only problem that I see with it is that fact that we might miss some sleeper hit.  Otherwise, it means less crap on the shelves.  To also be honest, some of the developers/publishers like Codemasters and THQ are almostly crap anyways.  The only reason I like anything from THQ is because of one developer, Volition who did the Freespace, Descent, and Red Faction games, otherwise I would care less.  The only thing that I thought was interesting from Codemasters was Op:Flashpoint and it was a good, but not great game.  I thought that games like Ghost Recon and America's Army are much better.  Many fanboys would like to see Nintendo fail and our loyalty to waned, but I know that Nintendo is so far from it.

[theaveng]

Comic about GameCube's lack of software

I hear a LOT of hype about DreamCast froms gamers, but when I borrowed a system from a friend of mine, I was totally unimpressed.  The graphics on that system were not as impressive as what I see on a PS2.  They felt like N64-graphics but smoothed with more polygons.  That's it... nothing outstanding or special.

[Dolphin64X]

Well, the system was 2 years older than the Playstation 2.  Judging by graphics, however, is one of the faults of the current industry.  It's because consumers did that that Sega, who deserved more than any other company to get a break with the Dreamcast, was doomed the moment the hype engine started for the PS2.  Hype shouldn't sell games, games should, and it sure wasn't games that sold the first Playstation 2's.

I suppose I'll be happy as long as the good Japanese support keeps on coming.  At the moment it only seems to be growing.  The problem of losing support seems biggest if you look at American publishers, who do publish most of the copycat games, and you see them hastily abandoning ship, like the GameCube was dying or something.  It's not, but the dropping of American developers, which are in vogue right now, sure isn't helping to increase the GameCube's market share.

I suppose it ends up on how much clout the developers can wield.  If Shinji Mikami wants to make only GameCube games, but they sell much less than Playstation 2 games, then he'll be pressured to instead make it for the Playstation 2.  A company's goal is, after all, to make money.  But as long as consumers keep feeding the rehash and glitz market, we'll see the support go to the company with the most presence.

If Nintendo can secure the help of big Japanese games for the next system's release, people may be talking much more about it.  I mean, who wouldn't want a system launching with Metal Gear Solid 4, Resident Evil 5, Soul Caliber III, etc.? (Viewtiful Joe 2? ) Even if the Nintendo classics aren't enough to attract consumers beyond the core market, the general excitement generated by a system that has those would.  

We can only hope.  

[nolimit19]

well it seems like most of the money is made by ea, nintendo, sony, and i am sure rockstar.......well activision and what not, but it seems there are lots of companies......especially japanese companies.

[theaveng]

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Originally posted by: Dolphin64X
Well, the system was 2 years older than the Playstation 2.  Judging by graphics, however, is one of the faults of the current industry.... Hype shouldn't sell games, games should, and it sure wasn't games that sold the first Playstation 2's.

I don't think it was hype that killed Dreamcast.  Lack-of-sufficient advancement is what did it.  

If I imagine myself in the year 1998 with a PS1 or N64, would the Dreamcast induce me to upgrade?  No.  Because the graphics are "N64-style but smoothed with more polygons."  I would not be able to justify to myself spending $400 plus a whole new game collection for such a small advancement in graphics.  I'd stick with what I already have.

[Dolphin64X]

I don't know about that.  I mean, look at Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, or Skies of Arcadia Legends.  They can stand well enough as next-generation titles, but feature only minimal graphical upgrades.  

And the Dreamcast started out selling reasonably well.  The public seemed ready to buy it, until news of the Playstation 2 breached.

Quite simply, if games don't sell systems, the industry is in trouble.  If the big Japanese game designers do stick with Nintendo, we may see a turnaround next generation, but if Nintendo is consigned to little support, then I fear the industry will have degraded to a level where image is everything, and quality and innovation are things of the past.

[thecubedcanuck]

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I fear the industry will have degraded to a level where image is everything, and quality and innovation are things of the past.

You guys give Nintendo way to much credit. Yes, most of their games are good, but surely not all of them are. If Nintendo died it definately wouldnt spell the end of the video game market.
Your statement is so biased it isnt even funny, you seem to think that nintendo is the only company making anything innovative and with quality. Get your head out of the big N's ass for a while and try new things.

[Dolphin64X]

I'm really not surprised by your response.  You seem to enjoy refuting everything said in any thread.

Regardless, I feel I speak for most of the people here when I say that Nintendo makes, bar none, the best games, and if they left the games industry would hold little left.

Really, there's something to be said about a company that invented modern gaming.  Nintendo is one of the few companies left willing to try innovation instead of brash commercialism-I mean look at Wind Waker, it's quite a risky look, but they thought it would play better, so they did it anyways.

[theaveng]

Nintendo's Wind Waker is not the first cel-shaded game.  Sega's(?) Jet Set Radio was.  So, Sega was the first to take that risk.  Nintendo is just copying.

Honestly, as cubedcanuck said, Nintendo is not taking any more risks than any other gaming company.

[Dolphin64X]

I know they didn't invent it-I was just referring to them changing (and drastically at that) one of their most important franchises.  They knew people would be upset.  They did it anyway.  We were told to trust them, they knew what they were doing-and it looks like they were correct.  The game seems to be awesome.  

I'm not sure about Nintendo playing risks.  They've always been very conservative in business policies, not willing to spend more money then necessary.  But I think Nintendo understands, and always has, that it has to let its game designers create what they want in order to get the best quality games.  This strategy put Nintendo where it is now, with a reputation of only the best.  Unfortunately it seems that consumers today aren't as interested in buying the best quality games-the sales Nintendo gets from it fans are not enough to sell comparably to that of Sony or, in the US, Microsoft.

But at least it can keep going like this for a long time to come.  It does make a lot of money, and profits are rising (though that might be due to inflation-the graph Rick linked to didn't say), but I don't know how long it can go if it keeps losing public attention.  20 years at least, at worst, though.

I hope that the next generation is a fresh start, and Nintendo can lure back the public with enough Japanese support.  As long as Nintendo doesn't die, I'll be happy.  I'll be happier if it doesn' become a niche company.

[Hemmorrhoid]

I agree with Cubed Canuck about Sunshine. That game wasnt bad, but way inferior to Mario 64, and I didnt even bother getting 50shines.
I saw all 7stages (are there more???) and dont want to play anymore, whereas I beat Mario 64 about 8times and some stars I collected like 25times. (Like the ones in the first stage).

I am also incredibly hyped for Mario 128, I hope that will bring my real Mario desire to an end for, well, until I beat it.

[thecubedcanuck]

dolphin, do you look at anything objectively, ever?
You are a fanboy, plain and simple. Nintendo is a shell of the great company they once were.

[Link]

Give me a break. I shudder to think what the world of video games looks like through your eyes.

[thecubedcanuck]

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Give me a break. I shudder to think what the world of video games looks like through your eyes

too funny

I have all 3 systems and I honestly dont see Nintendo as having the better quality of games or system.

All 3 have great games, and all 3 systems have benifits and flaws.

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

Nintendo isnt the company it once was, Mario sunshine should be proof of that. I am hoping Zelda is the masterpiece I think it will be, however if it isnt I wont kid myself by pretending it is.

You keep saying my logic is flawed. How is it flawed? By looking at things objectively? By not looking at the name on the box and deciding right there and then.

I play games, I honestly could care less who makes them.

As for "the world of video games I live in" its called the real world, games are a hobbie, not real life.

[Link]

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Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck


Nintendo isnt the company it once was, Mario sunshine should be proof of that. I am hoping Zelda is the masterpiece I think it will be, however if it isnt I wont kid myself by pretending it is.

That's an opinion. Nothing more. Nintendo isn't crumbling just because you dislike Mario or Zelda.

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As for "the world of video games I live in" its called the real world, games are a hobbie, not real life.

I didn't say "you live in". I said, "I shudder to think what the world of video games looks like through your eyes." And yes so what if it is a hobby to you and me? Does that mean I'm not allowed to get fired up about it? If we didn't have these kind of hobbies, we'd all go insane.
People get emotional about video games on the internet as well as so called real life. Deal with it.


 

[thecubedcanuck]

link

Do you play any other systems on a regular basis?

Can you really be objective if you dont?

[Stimutacs Addict]

umm yea looking at this last page here shows that no one is keeping on topic.... except for a couple of comments (like Nintendo being a shell of what they once were)

so to stray back towards the path that we should be progressing towards....

i find now that almost everyone who plays videogames or talks about videogames at my school owns a Ps2 and GTA 3 or GTA: Vice City. Having not gotten to play Vice City, i can't judge it, but i hope that it is more fun than GTA 3, which i find to be a little overrated, but still good. sorry, i pulled the role of the board hypocrite there cuz i strayed off topic, but i dont feel like going back to edit that.

anyways, lots of people have PS2 and a GTA game for it, and another group is starting to get big into DDR ... but i find that now that people have  a ps2 they are branching out and buying a second system. For some, its the Xbox. The draw of Halo and Xbox live really pulls some people to buy the system. I have noticed some more PS2 owners that recently bought Cubes, so it seems like the Cube around here is just bought because the people can afford the extra investment... but still, i would estimate that only 1/6 of the guys playing videogames at my school really know all of the gaming news. Most just look at a game's box, and if it has a guy holding a gun on the cover they immediately show interest in it. upon turning to look at the back cover, they see gunfights and other 'cool' things and then they buy the game. (i do know people that will just buy a game with no prior knowledge about it... they have a little too much money to waste, in my opinion)

I think nintendo's strategy is paying off a little. people already have a ps2 and GTA Vice City and are a little unsure about what game to get next, and the free game packed with a 150 dollar cube definitely turns some heads, especially when Mario Party 4 is one of those free games.

in my opinion, Nintendo needs to get an exclusive First Person Shooter with a very good multiplayer that can definitely inspire sales, but thats just not their style, so they need to get some games with a GTA or Halo-like draw that really gets gamers to turn their heads and break out the pocket books. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker looks fantastic in my honest opinion. I was completely horrified and utterly shocked when i saw the first trailer for it, but it grew on me when i realized how much better the game could be (though an Ocarina of Time style may have drawn more of the public's attention, i just dont know). Hopefully, Nintendo will deliver with this title, and i really hope that they find a way to advertise it well (the preorder worked well), and finally, i hope that the public can take 10 minutes of their time to play this game. (it seems like the oddity of some titles kept them from getting more public attention than they deserved, Like Pikmin or Eternal Darkness, though they both could have benefitted with a little more length.)

[Hemmorrhoid]

To really see if Nintendos strategy pays off well have to wait for the end of 2003.
If Nintendo buils an advance over Xbox userbase everywhere in the world and establishes itself in Japan, id say, it was sucesssful.

[Gamer Donkey]

Cubedcanuck, you're just shooting down other peoples opinions and replacing them with your own. So they think differently than you, who cares!?! Let them have their opinions and I'm sure they'll let you have yours. Thats how the forum works.

[Link]

On a regular basis?
Not really. I've played every single "big" release, and some small ones on PS2. I've played enough PS2 games where have beaten them. But I don't own one. I've played to so called big games on Xbox. Halo and various other games that aren't Halo. And own a PS1 with about 50 games.
Listen, I've been playing video games since 1980. I've played every single console more times than I can fathom. Don't try calling me a goddamn fanboy because I don't think Nintendo is crap and that they make the best video games.
Why do I have to be objective anyway? Because I don't own a PS2 or an Xbox I can't have an opinion?Just because you buy everything under the sun, your OPINIONS mean more than mine?