Topic: No original Rare games on the Virtual Console?

[bustin98]

Right on the box of both Perfect Dark  AND Conker's Bad Fur Day it says 'Published By Rareware'. Perfect Dark says 'Distributed By Nintendo'. You have to pull out the instructions for Conker to see that Nintendo is the 'Exclusive' distributor of it.

Strangely, both Goldeneye and Banjo Tooie lack any indication of who published or distributed the games. Perhaps its just to be assumed its Nintendo. Both games claim Copyright by both Nintendo and Rare, so it would seem Nintendo had some rights to Banjo, more so than to Conker. But I'm sure the payment for Rare took care of those copyright claims. And someone is borrowing Banjo Kazooie so I can't compare what that box has.

[Artimus]

I've always thought that Nintendo owned Banjo 1 & 2 the games, but Rare owned the characters/properties/brand. Goldeneye I believe was a Nintendo published game as well, meaning it'd belong to all three.

Conker and PD are definitely Rare.

[Pale]

There is a difference between having the rights to a franchise, and having the rights to re-publish an old game, that's all I'm saying.  I don't know if it actually holds true for any of the rare games though.

I feel like way to many people are caught up in who owns the franchise, when, in this case anyway, I think it is more important who owns the publishing rights to said specific titles.

[Deguello]

I guess this is what Nintendo gets for being scrupulous and not screwing over a former partner.

Back in 2002, MS said they were greatly relieved that Nintendo did not embroil them in a difficult legal battle that would have assuredly ended in Nintendo victory and the retention of Rare's old IP.  Nintendo was very amicable about the deal, although in my opinion they should not have been.

Now it becomes clear that they should have kept all the Rare-created IP and told them to go hang.  These old games are not a threat to MS in any way, and their exclsuion will do nothing to tamp down feature of mega backwards compatibility.  What it MIGHT do is start gamer's attitudes in the opposite direction.  And it may turn out that Nintendo has all the rights anyway, as the "confirmation" only comes from MS and Rare.  And if that is the case, I say publish and burn the bridge.  They already tried to, anyway.  

[Ceric]

Actually if we look at pass examples I think we might see Rare games published by Microsoft on the Revolutions Virtual Console.  It makes sense.

The key to this argument is to point out that Microsoft has money in the DS and GBA titles.  I mean they allow for franchise they own to go to those systems.  They could make them for PSP or to boost there own Windows Mobile platform, while not gaming but still.

I think in the end if the licensing is good and Microsoft sees a big demand; they'll release it for the Nintendo Virtual Console.  The board meeting will go like this:

MS Exec:  How much will I make from Putting this on Nintendo's Virtual Console compared to redoing it for Live Arcade?
Number Pusher:  Since the game would have to be rebuilt from scratch you would make more from Virtual Console even taking in account lost hardware sales.
MS Exec:  Great.  We'll use the VC money to fund the uber redo that will come out for the 360.  We'll use it as advertisement and an oliver branch for the moment. I am truly brilliant
Number Pusher: Yes, my master.

[IceCold]

Well, it could benefit Microsoft too.. If they release a Rare game onto the VC, the franchise will get more exposure. Then,  if Rare makes a new game for the franchise, the same people who downloaded it on the VC might buy it on the 360.

[KDR_11k]

Yeah, problem is you'd need a different console for the VC stuff and that won't help MS establish a monopoly in the market.

[ruby_onix]

Quote
Originally posted by: bustin98
Right on the box of both Perfect Dark  AND Conker's Bad Fur Day it says 'Published By Rareware'. Perfect Dark says 'Distributed By Nintendo'. You have to pull out the instructions for Conker to see that Nintendo is the 'Exclusive' distributor of it.

Strangely, both Goldeneye and Banjo Tooie lack any indication of who published or distributed the games. Perhaps its just to be assumed its Nintendo. Both games claim Copyright by both Nintendo and Rare, so it would seem Nintendo had some rights to Banjo, more so than to Conker. But I'm sure the payment for Rare took care of those copyright claims. And someone is borrowing Banjo Kazooie so I can't compare what that box has.

Here's a snippet from Nintendo's 2001 financial report.


The ones on the right are the so-called second parties. The ones on the left are fully-owned first party companies.

Before they updated with the new Microsoft info, the US Patent Office website used to say that "Rare Limited" (the one on the left, owned 100% by Nintendo) was the company that owned all of the games which claimed to be published by Rareware. All the others were apparently owned by Nintendo.

It seems likely that Rare wanted more recognition for their work, so Nintendo (the one with all the money and power in the relationship) juggled some paperwork to make it look like Rare was actually publishing their own games.

Before Rare left, Nintendo transferred ownership of the typical "Rare" properties (and not things like Donkey Kong Country or Starfox Adventures) over from themselves and "Rare Limited" over to the real Rare, which was then absorbed by Microsoft. The details of the exchange don't appear to be public knowledge, but some things are obvious.


Sooo.... what's worth more? Banjo Kazooie and Perfect Dark on the Virtual Console, or entirely new games from Rare on the DS?

[Ian Sane]

"Sooo.... what's worth more? Banjo Kazooie and Perfect Dark on the Virtual Console, or entirely new games from Rare on the DS?"

Virtual Console.  The Rev needs more help than the DS and Rare's classic games are better than their new ones.

[Smash_Brother]

The Rare GBA games have sucked, from what I heard. I don't see why Rare games on the DS would be any better.

[vudu]

As many people have pointed out, publishing rights for many old games have gotten tangled up due to mergers, acquisitions, buying/selling of rights, etc.  My biggest concern is that the virtual console won't see lots of games due to the fact that it would be too dang costly to figure out who owns what.  If a company expects that they can make $10,000 from releasing an old game on the virtual console but they estimate it would cost $15,000 in legal fees to determine if they own the game or not it'll never see the light of day.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
The Rare GBA games have sucked, from what I heard. I don't see why Rare games on the DS would be any better.

Because Rare games on DS would be more like Rare games on N64, and those games were good(at least the ones that i have played).

[Dirk Temporo]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
Hmm link dirk?  According to both IGN and Gamefaqs, it was published by Nintendo.

In case this hasn't been resolved. Right here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/Shralla/PD.jpg

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1 Because Rare games on DS would be more like Rare games on N64, and those games were good(at least the ones that i have played).

I dunno, have you seen their latest works?

I don't have much faith in Rare anymore.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

C'mon, people.  IGN and Gamefaqs game info aren't 100% accurate.  Much of the time the info is there as a filler (new games get speculated info) just so they can have a listing in the database, and often they're not double-checked/revised.  I'm sure one site has info that's just copy/pasted from the other site by a visitor submission.

[MaryJane]

Let's hope that when the xbox360 crashes with the release of the revolution and ps3 and the suckiness of halo3 that Nintendo will buy Rare again, or Rare will become independent and desperate for cash will of course sell the rights to our favorite games. I wanna play jet force gemini again.  

[BranDonk Kong]

This also means no RC Pro-AM! Damn you Rare!

[capamerica]

Quote
Originally posted by: MaryJane
Let's hope that when the xbox360 crashes with the release of the revolution and ps3 and the suckiness of halo3 that Nintendo will buy Rare again, or Rare will become independent and desperate for cash will of course sell the rights to our favorite games. I wanna play jet force gemini again.

That situation is Highly unlikely, I don't think Nintendo would ever want to take Rare back.
Most likely IF the Xbox360 were crashed (which I think is highly unlikly) Microsoft would desolve Rare into Microsoft Game Studio and then sell off any of Rare's assests that they didn't want to keep.

Thank God for that, cause I wouldn't want to see any Rare games on my Nintendo system ever again.

I mean damn it people the Rare you knew and loved Died years ago, get over it!

[bustin98]

Quote
I mean damn it people the Rare you knew and loved Died years ago, get over it!

All hail Zoonami and Free Radical!

[iMoron]

Rare...

They rarely delivered on time...

Their games rare... Freking few, and rather hard at times (battletoads, Or golden eye's inposible invincible mode) or the OVERDONE item colectiveness of Banjo Kazzuy or DK64... or the cheap loses in RC ProAM ... the Dloble runs (returning to the same parts to collect something of some thing again) more (GFG) ... or ... bad cheazy commedy (I did not find Conkers'BFD fun, in no way fun...) ...

Actually what did they had, Golden Eye... PD... and Killer Instink ... Blast Corps... RCpro AM was cool but I HATE those cheap loses where the other cars would run 3 laps in 3 seconds!...Diddy Congs Racing was fun untill half way true the game (dodle run, @#$@#$# coins, and $#@%%% $#$#$%%$ hard boss, moust anoying gaming moment besides Banjo and DK) Starfox Adventures was BLA... oh look *furry buts and tails* ...bland...

I won't miss them much... It took them ages to realease a game, look how they are on the XuxsBox and XuxBox Flush... How many Games will they manage this generation? 4... Yup PD0.5 will come out 2009... and Conkers Hurd Hours Cantina 2020...

And their past offering for Nintendo consoles have been few and far ... even if good games they where few... and Nintendo still holds some of the IP... maybe not much but if they want they can realease from those IP's they (Nintendo) still owns...

Rare is no big deal in a way... Shure it would be nice... but not terific etcep for a few games...

[animecyberrat]

its even harderfor games like Killer Insticnt which Midway had distribution righst to also as the arcade manufacter. When i asked Nintendo if KI was going to geta sequel they said that Midway had the rights to it and not Rare. I asked Midway about Ki sequel and they said they had no plans to use the franchise in the near future.  


Is it possible that Midway actualy does have soem publishing rioghst to Ki and can therfore bypass Rares rights and allow the game to goto VC?

KI was one of my favorite SNES games, the n64 was so so but not as good as the fist. It all reminds me of when they were auctioning off accliams righsta  while back, Mortal Kombat was on the list eventhough Midway owns the righst to that 100percent, yet somehow Acclaim still had righst to the work they had done, so it could be similar situation here. I contacted Midway about that also and they told me that They still own MK and all righst to it, all acclaim had was righst to the home consoles (SNES, GEN) versions.


I think that if Nintendo wanted to, and they should, they could very well fight for the righst to all the games they publsihed considering they may have publsihing righst which means thay can reuse them as long as the rights havent expired.