Topic: No original Rare games on the Virtual Console?

[JonLeung]

Sorry if this is old, I just haven't seen it mentioned here.

Source

That hurts the N64 line-up.  Certain Rare games such as Diddy Kong Racing and Donkey Kong 64 are still possible, it sounds like, but totally original works of Rare's including the two Banjo-Kazooie games, Jet Force Gemini, and Blast Corps are off the list.

And what about pre-N64 games?  While Donkey Kong Country is likely to be in Nintendo's grip, what about Solar Jetman and the Battletoads games and PinBot?

Now-Microsoft-owned-Rare is likely going to have their shooter/arcade games released on the Xbox Live Arcade's service, which to be honest, I'm not too familiar with, but sounds a lot like the Revolution's Virtual Console.  GoldenEye 007 (once navigating the legal minefield of who has the rights and who'll get the profits), Perfect Dark, and the two Killer Instincts will probably be there.

I actually really liked the ludicrousness of Killer Instinct and the collectomania of DK 64, at least a lot more than other people seemed to.  GoldenEye is like a license to print money, and it's a shame, especially if anyone had taken its inclusion in that survey a while back as any sort of hope that the Revolution could have it.  The N64 was Rare at its absolute finest (Grabbed by the Ghoulies, WTF?) so maybe that's why Microsoft is intent on holding onto them, even if an Xbox 360 owner doesn't seem to be the type to want to play with a teddy bear who likes to collect honeycombs.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: JonLeung
Sorry if this is old, I just haven't seen it mentioned here.

Source

"Neither are gamers likely to see Goldeneye 007, unless both Rare and new license holder EA commit it to Nintendo's platform. "

How is Rare still a factor with Goldeneye? I would think that it would be more in the hands of who holds the Bond license for video games then something that's up to Rare, considering it wasn't a original property that they created anyway and Nintendo published it.

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Originally posted by: JonLeung
And what about pre-N64 games?  While Donkey Kong Country is likely to be in Nintendo's grip, what about Solar Jetman and the Battletoads games and PinBot?

Does anyone really care much about the pre-DKC games, though? Of course it would be nice to have, more is always better, but they weren't anything special.

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Originally posted by: JonLeung
Now-Microsoft-owned-Rare is likely going to have their shooter/arcade games released on the Xbox Live Arcade's service, which to be honest, I'm not too familiar with, but sounds a lot like the Revolution's Virtual Console.  GoldenEye 007 (once navigating the legal minefield of who has the rights and who'll get the profits), Perfect Dark, and the two Killer Instincts will probably be there.

How do you figure? Somehow I doubt Nintendo is going to let Microsoft try to emulate one of their systems to have those games appear on there.

[Ceric]

I didn't' read the article so this might be covered.  I thought that all rights went to the publishers most of the time.  So if the publisher wanted to rerelease your game it was really up to them.  That is unless when MS struck the deal they also bought the rights to publish past Rare games as well.
As mentioned earlier I doubt Nintendo would allow an emulator on the x-Box but I'm sure that it could be redone with no real problem without using an emulator.  I'm sure they still have all of the original assets.

[Dasmos]

Damn Jet Force Gemini was one of my favourite Nintendo 64 games. I guess I probably wouldn't have downloaded it though seeing as I already have the game on 64.

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: Ceric
I didn't' read the article so this might be covered.  I thought that all rights went to the publishers most of the time.  So if the publisher wanted to rerelease your game it was really up to them.  That is unless when MS struck the deal they also bought the rights to publish past Rare games as well.
As mentioned earlier I doubt Nintendo would allow an emulator on the x-Box but I'm sure that it could be redone with no real problem without using an emulator.  I'm sure they still have all of the original assets.

True, but they're missing a key ingredient for Goldeneye: the license.

It's one thing to emulate an old game that they made long ago... but a port to a different platform very likely would require the permissions of the current license holders.

[Dirk Temporo]

You must realize that nobody ACTUALLY thought that Rare owned games were going to be on the virtual console.

[Artimus]

The only real losses are Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, and I guess a Banjo game. Rare's best work besides its two-FPS isn't on the 64 (regardless of bloated Banjo comments from some people).

[jasonditz]

To me getting Square-Enix on board is way more important than getting Rare on board. Rare's games always depended a lot on being visually cutting edge, and games like that just don't age that well.

[MaryJane]

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Originally posted by: Artimus
The only real losses are Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, and I guess a Banjo game. Rare's best work besides its two-FPS isn't on the 64 (regardless of bloated Banjo comments from some people).

I'm just wondering if you played jet force gemini? I loved it.

[Svevan]

*Bloated Banjo Comment*

[capamerica]

No big lost to me, The only decent Rare games in my book were the ones where they used someone elses franchise.

But as jasonditz said "To me getting Square-Enix on board is way more important than getting Rare on board."

[BranDonk Kong]

This probably means no Battletoads either...that does suck.

[Pale]

There is still something screwy going on here, because I was always under the impression that the publisher's owned the rights to re-publish the games, not the developers.  Doing a quick scan of some of Rare's games...

Banjo Kazooie
Banjo Tooie
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark
Blast Corps

All of those games were published by Nintendo.  There could very well have been something in the contract that says they can republish them.  

Edit: Also, Battletoads was apparently published by Tradewest... are they even still around in any form?

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: Pale
Doing a quick scan of some of Rare's games...

Banjo Kazooie
Banjo Tooie
Goldeneye
Perfect Dark
Blast Corps

All of those games were published by Nintendo.  There could very well have been something in the contract that says they can republish them.

The KI games too, but Nintendo let Rare keep the character properties to all of those except Goldeneye (because they couldn't, of course), which is why I never expected to see them appear on the service.

[wandering]

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No big lost to me, The only decent Rare games in my book were the ones where they used someone elses franchise.

Eh. Kazooie > DK.

And you didn't like Perfect Dark?

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You must realize that nobody ACTUALLY thought that Rare owned games were going to be on the virtual console.

Well, IGN did...

[thejeek]

I think it will come down to the details of the publishing contract/licence - it might give rights in perpetuity or for a fixed time, it might tie the title to a particular platform or it might not - does anyone who works in the industry know what sort of terms are usually given?

[Talon]

Nintendo may have the rights to publish the game on the N64 but the virtual console is another story.  

I dont know exactly how the videogame industry works but if its anything like the movie industry then a distributor (publisher) may have a license to distribute a movie on vhs for predetermined amount of time then say years go by and the license of that movie changes hands through buyouts and takeovers and then the distributor wants to distribute that movie again but this time on dvd they have to acquire a new license for the movie even if it is from the original company.

I think out of goldeneye, perfect dark, jet force gemini, blast corps and banjo kazooie Nintendo has the best chance at getting goldeneye onto their virtual console because I do believe EA holds the bond license.  However I do not know how much of goldeneye RARE may still own, it is possible that when the bond license was taken over by EA, RARE may still own certain parts of goldeneye.

This is going to be a stumbling block for any non-nintendo made game, especially if the company who made the game does not exist anymore.  Tracking down the licenses can be a real nightmare.

On the other hand games like perfect dark, jet force gemini, blast corps and banjo kazooie may never see the light of day again depending on Nintendo's publishing agreements.  Even though RARE may own the IP's we dont know what sort of agreement RARE made with Nintendo when these games were published on the N64 and we dont know what agreements still exist when Nintendo signed RARE over to Microsoft.  Also it maybe illegal (definately unethical) for Microsoft to make a N64 emulator to play these games so the only way they could appear on Microsoft's Virtual Arcade is if they were built from the ground up (now is that worth RARE's time?).

For now lets just appreciate all the games that we know we will get to play again and lets leave the legalities for Nintendo to battle it out.

[Terranigma Freak]

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To me getting Square-Enix on board is way more important than getting Rare on board. Rare's games always depended a lot on being visually cutting edge, and games like that just don't age that well.

Wait wait wait... so you're saying Square's games DON'T depend a lot on being visually cutting edge with about as much gameplay as ET?

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Terranigma Freak Wait wait wait... so you're saying Square's games DON'T depend a lot on being visually cutting edge with about as much gameplay as ET?

FF3 US certainly wasn't graphically impressive but I can find quite a few people who would sign their name in blood on a petîtion to bring that game to the virtual console.

I'm dead f__king serious.  

[Ian Sane]

I hope if these Rare games aren't going to show up on the Rev that MS actually uses them.  Sometimes companies have no intention of actually using something they own and just sit on it to prevent someone else from benefiting from it.  MS could make money off of Rev download sales for Rare games (I assume anyway, it might not work that way if Rare sells them directly) and that would still be better than not using these games at all and making no money from them.

Legalities like this always piss me off.  I don't like it when something I like and want to buy legitimately is out of print or is butchered (this happens a lot with music rights) because of crap like this.  I've always thought there should be some sort of historical archive clause in copyright law so that we can always have access to something as it originally appeared without lawyers messing it all up.

[vudu]

Would Microsoft even allow a port of a N64 title to play on its precious 360?  While most of them are great games they don't exactly shout HD Era.

[capamerica]

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Originally posted by: Pale

Edit: Also, Battletoads was apparently published by Tradewest... are they even still around in any form?

From what I've been able to find out Tradewest owned the Battletoads franchise. And Tradewest was purchesed by Midway. But since the Battletoad games were created by both Rare and Tradewest its unsure if Midway could release them on the VC. And as to Why Midway hasn't done anything with the Battletoads franchise is a mystery, My guess is that Battletoads didn't do to well on the SNES and Midway much rather pump out so-so Mortal Kombat sequals then put in some effort in creating a new Battletoads game.

[TrueNerd]

I don't expect I'll be crying much over this one.  

[Dirk Temporo]

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Originally posted by: Pale
...Perfect Dark...

All of those games were published by Nintendo.  There could very well have been something in the contract that says they can republish them.

Perfect Dark was published by Rare.

[Pale]

Hmm link dirk?  According to both IGN and Gamefaqs, it was published by Nintendo.