Author Topic: ps3 and 360 graphics cards (Read 11260 times)

Nephilim · « **on:** March 09, 2006, 06:23:48 PM »

I remember just 12months ago the talk of how the video cards in both are worth 1,000, since then we have seen 2 major upgrades in cards
ati: high end 1800, 1900
nvidia: 7800, 7900 (in a month)
Am I the only one thinking they will be left behind in 6months?
There were serious talk of the death of "pc gaming", yet 360 already is looking worse off
Check out tomb raider for 360 :X

kinda a rant, but has a point

Flames_of_chaos · « **Reply #1 on:** March 09, 2006, 06:43:39 PM »

To me a graphics card even a really powerful one can mean squat unless the developer makes good use out of it or pushes it.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2006, 08:35:30 PM »

DeadlyD: You mean what happened with the XBox will happen again? Say it isn't so!

capamerica · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2006, 04:30:44 AM »

I wouldn't really judge the graphics capability based on Tomb Raider cause more then likely all the 360 is getting is a slightly updated port of the Xbox version. Right now the games coming out for the 360 are pretty much just normal Xbox versions (with a few exceptions) that were moved up so the 360 would have some games. Its just like what happen to the PS2, alot of your early PS2 games were just PSOne games.

jasonditz · « **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2006, 08:33:44 AM »

What would be cool is if the next-next gen consoles allowed you to swap out video cards... you're already designing for multiple resolutions on those systems, it wouldn't be a huge leap to have them design with some texture quality options too.

odifiend · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2006, 09:05:14 AM »

don't forget how cool it would be if they could run windows...

KDR_11k · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2006, 10:26:37 AM »

I thought the whole point of a console was that it's a fixed platorm with a unified hardware configuration so you don't have to worry about different configurations causing problems?

Sir_Stabbalot · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2006, 12:52:44 PM »

Well, the 360 is using the R500 chipset and the Rev uses the R520, so I'm guessing the Rev's will be a bit more powerful.

Caliban · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2006, 02:15:23 PM »

Sir_Stabbalot, it is better to not make such an assumption for the Rev about it using the R520, or did anyone confirm that is so?

Anyway, you guys think the PS3 or X360 GPU is something? Take a look at this: http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/14/sneak_preview_of_the_nvidia_quad_gpu_setup/ . That's right, each video-card has 2 GPUs and because mobos that have two 16X PCI-E slots it makes it way, way, way better than the PS3's or X360 gpu. Then again the PS3 and X360 GPU is built to work in perfect harmony with their multi-core CPUs. So it's all a matter of configuration and also how powerful the apps are that will make those GPUs run at their full potential.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2006, 09:30:57 PM »

Wasn't r500 a failure that never went in production and r520 introduced instead? Furthermore, wasn't the r520 done before the XCircle was announced?

BigJim · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2006, 11:38:25 PM »

Rev using anything in the R500 class was someone's guess. ATI has said it's not related to any PC card class. It's basically a souped up Flipper.

nitsu niflheim · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2006, 06:09:04 PM »

graphics mean nothing if you don't have an actual game to back up those pretty visuals.

Sir_Stabbalot · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2006, 01:04:52 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
Rev using anything in the R500 class was someone's guess. ATI has said it's not related to any PC card class. It's basically a souped up Flipper.

Ah, guess I was wrong.

jasonditz · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2006, 06:52:42 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I thought the whole point of a console was that it's a fixed platorm with a unified hardware configuration so you don't have to worry about different configurations causing problems?

Didn't seem to cause huge problems when Nintendo introduced the Expansion Pak for the N64. The real benefit of a fixed platform would be saving development time, but if you're already forcing developers to target umpteen resolutions like Sony and MS are, having them add in a few other optional visual effects if it detects a better video card is probably comparatively trivial.

Galford · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2006, 07:36:55 PM »

I always thought the R500 was the code name for the specific XBox360 GPU.
From what I understand about the XBox360 hardware, MS pulled a Nintendo and owns
the actual design of the hardware.

IE, the R500 won't be appearing in computers anytime soon.

airraid1 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 12, 2006, 08:20:58 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: DeadlyD
I remember just 12months ago the talk of how the video cards in both are worth 1,000,

uhhh no.

first of all, Xbox 360 and PS3 do not have graphics cards. they have graphics processors / GPUs built directly onto the motherboard, unlike PCs which do have actual cards.

secondly, the Xbox 360 and PS3 graphics processors are custom, they are not found in PCs even though DERIVATIVES of them are, or will be.

the manufacturing costs and retail prices of console GPUs and PC GPUs/graphics cards are structured COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY. there is no comparison. console GPUs are manufactured in the 10s of millions, whereas highend PC graphics cards are manufactured in the tens or hundreds of thousands, or a few million at most. highend PC graphics cards / GPUs are at the highest possible specifications manufacturable, whereas console GPUs use new technology for the time, but do not push the limits of transistor amount, core clockspeed, memory speed, etc. no comparison.

airraid1 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2006, 08:23:26 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Galford
I always thought the R500 was the code name for the specific XBox360 GPU.
From what I understand about the XBox360 hardware, MS pulled a Nintendo and owns
the actual design of the hardware.

IE, the R500 won't be appearing in computers anytime soon.

R500 was supposedly the codename for the Xbox 360 GPU. it was derived from the never-seen R400 of 2003 which ATI put on hold. much of the technology in the Xbox 360 GPU (C1 aka Xenos) will appear in the upcoming R600 PC GPU.

both the Xbox 360 Xenos/C1 GPU and the PC R600 GPU use technology originally developed for the R400 as I said.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #17 on:** March 12, 2006, 08:47:50 PM »

but if you're already forcing developers to target umpteen resolutions like Sony and MS are, having them add in a few other optional visual effects if it detects a better video card is probably comparatively trivial.

Absolutely not. Better vidcards are usually not just faster, they add features and often quirks. If you make a game you have to target one configuration as "this is where it runs perfectly". With MS that configuration is currently XC Core running at 1280x720 (what happens at other resolutions is not your problem as demonstrated by Ubisoft). Add more variables and you only add confusion. Either the better vidcards are useless because games aren't programmed to take advantage of them or you'll have to upgrade your vidcard regularly to keep running the latest games. But there is no upgrade cycle on consoles beyond the generation changes, noone would upgrade just because and games won't target upgrades that have a small userbase. Sure, you could add some trivial effects like GC or XBox ports of PS2 games do but that won't use nearly the full power of the vidcard.

jasonditz · « **Reply #18 on:** March 13, 2006, 07:06:40 AM »

Graphics cards are increasingly important to the system's overall power... we've seen addon co-processors, RAM, disc drives, why not an addon video card?

Nintendo might even be the one to do it... remember, before the Gamecube, every Nintendo system had at least one significant hardware boosting upgrade which was used on a major game.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #19 on:** March 13, 2006, 08:10:45 AM »

But it does not make any sense! On the PC it's just assumed that people upgrade but who would upgrade on a console? And would make games that require those upgrades if noone buys them? And therefore, who would buy those upgrades?

jasonditz · « **Reply #20 on:** March 13, 2006, 08:41:15 AM »

The same people that upgrade them now. Who here that owned an N64 didn't get the Expansion Pak so they could play LoZ: Mask of Majora?

wandering · « **Reply #21 on:** March 13, 2006, 07:16:04 PM »

I got it with Donkey Kong....

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #22 on:** March 13, 2006, 07:39:35 PM »

I got an expansion pack to play PERFECT DARK, dur.

Tho MM turned out to be an even nicer reason to have it.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #23 on:** March 13, 2006, 08:53:49 PM »

Now imagine having three different sizes of memory packs that were released one year apart each, not included with any games and costing 200$ each.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #24 on:** March 13, 2006, 09:01:41 PM »

BLOL I still use a Matrox Marvel G400. I give it a workout with video game captures.

No wonder I don't upgrade for the sake of PC gaming.

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Author Topic: ps3 and 360 graphics cards (Read 11260 times)