Author Topic: The Blue-Ray/HD-DVD DVI standard and how it could really screw the PS3. (Read 14247 times)

Terranigma Freak · « **on:** February 26, 2006, 06:46:17 AM »

http://gear.ign.com/articles/691/691408p1.html

Oh man, this is going to be hilarious. Let say it DOESN'T affect games, you'll still be paying extra for the Blue-Ray drive that can't watch HD movies.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #1 on:** February 26, 2006, 07:22:00 AM »

Thank you for finding this and bolstering my arguments.

capamerica · « **Reply #2 on:** February 26, 2006, 07:37:47 AM »

ROTFLOL

This is great news, this is a huge nail in the coffin of both Blu-Ray and the PS3.
Now their going to be putting in a more expensive drive that less then 5% of the market can use. Man this is so freaken funny.

I was already saying that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD were going to be another laserdisc and VCD but this is a far worst problem that both of them ever had. I mean Now you can't even watch a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movie with out having a HDTV or Computer that is HDCP compatible which currently don't exist. So right now every single HDTV owner who thought their system would be ready for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies are screwed.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #3 on:** February 26, 2006, 07:49:42 AM »

As the article points out, Hollywood basically just gave people a huge reason to download (read: steal) movies instead of paying for them.

PaLaDiN · « **Reply #4 on:** February 26, 2006, 09:06:12 AM »

Come on, this won't last. Nobody's that stupid.

Besides, even if this happens, people will buy HDTVs anyway and fool themselves into thinking they're getting vastly superior image quality.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #5 on:** February 26, 2006, 09:58:24 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Besides, even if this happens, people will buy HDTVs anyway and fool themselves into thinking they're getting vastly superior image quality.

For $1,000+ for something which serves no sexual function whatsoever, I'd have to lie to myself, too.

And no, I don't think HD compatible porn will hit the market anytime soon.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #6 on:** February 26, 2006, 10:05:31 AM »

DivX has no HDCP. 'nuff said.

That's self-destruction, especially if they implement the "warning and nothing" reaction for non-HDCP receivers. Imagine all the furious rednecks screaming at electronics store employees because their "new DVD" won't play and tells them to get a HDTV instead, which they assure you they have.

capamerica · « **Reply #7 on:** February 26, 2006, 10:19:29 AM »

I was just talking about this with my Dad and we came up with 1 reasons why they are doing this and no its not to stop pirates.
The movie industry is freaken out because once HD-DVD and Blu-Ray hit the market there will be no reason what so ever for people to go to the movie theaters. The one thing most movie theaters have going for them right now is that they are showing movies in HD. But once HD-DVD and Blu-Ray hit the market people will be able to watch HD movies at home.

When VHS came out the movie industry introduced Widescreen and Stereo to the Theaters.
When TVs and VHS got Stereo the movie industry added Surround Sound.
When DVDs came out and offered Widescreen and Surround Sound the movie industry introduced HD.
Now with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD offering HD what would the movie industry introduced to the theaters?
They have nothing to introduce to the theater and keep people going and cause of that they are freaking out. As it stands right now a DVD costs about the same as going to the theater and buying a popcorn and soda. When you buy a DVD its yours for the rest of its life, when you go to the theater you have it for 2-hours and then its gone.
I don't know about most people but I rather wait a few months and buy a DVD then go to the theater.

Anyway Me and My Dad think the reason they are doing this is to buy some time until they can come up with a way to keep people coming to the theater or at least find some way to make up for the money lost.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #8 on:** February 26, 2006, 10:22:21 AM »

I think they could keep people coming to the theatre by not subjecting them to 20 minutes of pop-culture garbage.

Oh, and the movies not sucking might help a bit.

TrueNerd · « **Reply #9 on:** February 26, 2006, 11:35:50 AM »

I cannot imagine this actually coming to pass. It sounds way too stupid. No one's going to buy EITHER format if this is actually the case. I'm perfectly fine with the audio/visual quality my regular DVD's give me on my regular television that I found on the curb two and a half years ago. Sure, I would LIKE to upgrade, but I ain't gonna let Hollywood have its way with me to do it. I suspect most people feel the same way.

And while the PS3's software library will the sole factor in my decision to buy the console or not, playing Blu-Ray movies would have certainly been a nice extra feature. EXTRA FEATURE NEGATED!

Terranigma Freak · « **Reply #10 on:** February 26, 2006, 11:59:54 AM »

PLEASE READ THE FIRST PARAGRAPH IN THAT ARTICLE.

If you read the first paragraph, you'll realize this is already a REALITY!

"In perhaps the greatest disservice to the general consumer market yet perpetrated by players in the electronic entertainment industry, it has been revealed that next-generation DVD technologies (HD-DVD and Blu-ray) will only function with monitors and HDTVs with HDMI or DVI connections."

It is NOT speculation or something left to be decided. It is already decided. How it'll affect the PS3 is another matter. There might be changes for games, but it is official.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #11 on:** February 26, 2006, 12:21:01 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica
I was just talking about this with my Dad and we came up with 1 reasons why they are doing this and no its not to stop pirates.
The movie industry is freaken out because once HD-DVD and Blu-Ray hit the market there will be no reason what so ever for people to go to the movie theaters. The one thing most movie theaters have going for them right now is that they are showing movies in HD. But once HD-DVD and Blu-Ray hit the market people will be able to watch HD movies at home.

You've spelled it out to me. Hollywood doesn't want Movie Theaters to become the new Arcades =D

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Besides, even if this happens, people will buy HDTVs anyway and fool themselves into thinking they're getting vastly superior image quality.

For $1,000+ for something which serves no sexual function whatsoever, I'd have to lie to myself, too.

And no, I don't think HD compatible porn will hit the market anytime soon.

Why get HDCP compatible porn when HD porn is already out there?

Terranigma Freak · « **Reply #12 on:** February 26, 2006, 12:37:04 PM »

Quote
You've spelled it out to me. Hollywood doesn't want Movie Theaters to become the new Arcades =D

Can you say 3D Holograms?

Quote
And no, I don't think HD compatible porn will hit the market anytime soon.

Can you say 3D Holograms?

BigJim · « **Reply #13 on:** February 26, 2006, 12:37:09 PM »

Games on BRD are data discs and don't necessarily share any relation to the HDMI/HDCP/AACS restrictions.

I didn't read the whole article, but the first paragraph is not entirely accurate. It's not that players won't function on non-HDMI setups, the video will be down-rez'ed to quarter size -- 960x540 -- if watched through an analog connection.

The trouble here is that studios want to remove "fair use". Which depending who you ask is illegal. I'm not going to be picking up a player anytime soon though.

wandering · « **Reply #14 on:** February 26, 2006, 12:49:10 PM »

I'd like to hope HDTV fails. The movie industry is betting that everyone will "need" higher resolutions, so they think they can get away with charging ridiculously high prices, and forcing new technologies on us that try to prevent users from copying their media (so they have to buy new stuff when their old stuff breaks), while doing nothing to combat piracy. It's all bulls**t.

I hope hollywood collapses and everyone starts watching independently-created content over the internet.

capamerica · « **Reply #15 on:** February 26, 2006, 01:40:15 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
I didn't read the whole article, but the first paragraph is not entirely accurate. It's not that players won't function on non-HDMI setups, the video will be down-rez'ed to quarter size -- 960x540 -- if watch through an analog connection.

Actually it also says or what the studios are suggesting, a warning screen followed by nothing.
So some movies will be downsized while others won't play at all. either way its not good cause once it gets downsized your just better off buying the cheap DVD version.

BigJim · « **Reply #16 on:** February 26, 2006, 01:45:59 PM »

"I hope hollywood collapses and everyone starts watching independently-created content over the internet."

That'll probably happen anyway.

HD/BRD will likely be the last solid state digital format. On-demand is going to take over next. Even George Lucas thinks that we'll move to an on-demand "same day as theater release" market in the next decade or so, which will start to kill theaters... and Blockbuster.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #17 on:** February 26, 2006, 01:57:07 PM »

Yeah I hate rental stores too.

Epitaph · « **Reply #18 on:** February 26, 2006, 06:20:34 PM »

Heres are the main issues with copywrite protection. First no one wants it and theres no benefit to the consumer which is generally what used to motivate improvements. The only reason they are getting away with it is through heavy lobying. Senator Orin Hatch who was recently apointed to a copywrite position was lobieb by both the riaa and the mpaa. Now call me crazy but shouldnt a person at such a position be unbiased to either party?

Also companies such as microsoft want content protection in place because it gives them a stronghold on the computer market. As it stands now you can download linux for free and run any media you want on it. Basically linux is getting to the point where it could be a good alternative to windows media edition. Now if this format only plays on windows media edition it changes everything.

To top it all off they want you to keep buying. They want movies to be a dissposable comoditie. Lets say you go to the store now and buy a movie, with high definition you would never have a reason to rebuy a copy of the movie. There wont be any new format to make you want to update the qualitie of your movie. Now if you are given only an intelectual property instead of a garanteed product they can stipulate that after a year your movies dissapear or that you can only watch a movie for as long as you pay a subscription. This buisness model garantees that people will continue to put money in their pockets.

Caliban · « **Reply #19 on:** February 26, 2006, 06:44:04 PM »

I was concerned about this HDCP thingy when I read some articles on anandtech.com, well these articles were mainly talking about smothing that ATI was saying their future cards would have, anyway that doesn't matter, the thing I'm trying to say is that the video-card industry might buy all the AAAAAAAAAACS(lol) and that...well that's all I can remember, if you want to know more just go to anandtech.

One more thing, recently MicroSoft said the X360 will be capable of playing Blu-Ray, now I wonder if that is only possible because of ATI's gpu?! LOL, I Love Chaos!

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #20 on:** February 26, 2006, 08:12:46 PM »

More-informed posters may have read this already:

http://www.craphound.com/msftdrm.txt

June 17, 2004

``That's what happened to Jon Johansen, a Norweigan teenager who
wanted to watch French DVDs on his Norweigan DVD player. He and
some pals wrote some code to break the CSS so that he could do
so. He's a wanted man here in America; in Norway the studios put
the local fuzz up to bringing him up on charges of *unlawfully
trespassing upon a computer system.* When his defense asked,
"Which computer has Jon trespassed upon?" the answer was: "His
own."

His no-fooling, real and physical property has been expropriated
by the weird, notional, metaphorical intellectual property on his
DVD: DRM only works if your record player becomes the property of
whomever's records you're playing.``

Ain't that somethin'. The pursuance of DRM application and enforcement lead to this HD/DVI standardization disaster.

``It's a bad business. DVD is a format where the guy who makes the
records gets to design the record players. Ask yourself: how much
innovation has there been over the past decade of DVD players?
They've gotten cheaper and smaller, but where are the weird and
amazing new markets for DVD that were opened up by the VCR?
There's a company that's manufacturing the world's first
HDD-based DVD jukebox, a thing that holds 100 movies, and they're
charging *$27,000* for this thing. We're talking about a few thousand
dollars' worth of components -- all that other cost is the cost of
anticompetition.``

Take out "DVD" and insert B-something or H-something. Sounds familiar.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #21 on:** February 26, 2006, 10:52:38 PM »

The movie industry is freaken out because once HD-DVD and Blu-Ray hit the market there will be no reason what so ever for people to go to the movie theaters. The one thing most movie theaters have going for them right now is that they are showing movies in HD. But once HD-DVD and Blu-Ray hit the market people will be able to watch HD movies at home.

No. The cinema has a gigantic screen and expensive sound setup. It gets movies first. That's the big factors, not the resolution.

Never mind that the cinema is cheaper than buying a DVD and I never watch a movie twice anyway. Rentals are the biggest problem there, rentals don't require that you show up at a specific time to watch the movie and rentals allow you to eat the food you have at home. Rentals also allow you to skip the ads (I've done that often enough even when the DVD was programmed not to let me, stop and chapter skip are your friend).

Senator Orin Hatch who was recently apointed to a copywrite position was lobieb by both the riaa and the mpaa. Now call me crazy but shouldnt a person at such a position be unbiased to either party?

Lobbyism is just a nice word for legalized corruption. No politician should be allowed to take bribes because he has already received the only support he needs, that is the vote. A politician is under a duty to the people, he has to fulfill this duty without compromises. Bribes mean making a politician act in a way that is not representative of the will of the people. Such a person must be removed for he is a traitor. Politicians have power and with that power should come severe restrictions, sacrifice is necessary to perfectly serve the people. Soldiers are required to put everything on the line to serve the people, why shouldn't politicians who wield far greater power?

These politicians are democratically elected, they didn't receive their office from a king, an emperor or even God himself, they received it from the people to serve the people. To SERVE, not exploit!

Orin Hatch is a traitor and should be expelled as such.

As it stands now you can download linux for free and run any media you want on it.

No, you can't. You need DeCSS which is illegal in the United States of America because of corruption through the MPAA and RIAA. Such freedom is illegal in this country. Power by the people has been replaced by power through wealth. Freedom of expression has been replaced with freedom of compliance. Privacy has been replaced with "If you haven't done anything wrong you have nothing to fear". Justice for all has been replaced with rights for the rich, persecution for the poor. The dark ages are returning.

All thios does is make me even less interested in movies than I already am. I think I watch roughly one movie per year and that's in the cinema. I consider 10 Euros for a DVD to be overpriced. The MPAA can disappear for all I care and it wouldn't do much bad. These days you don't need to watch a movie, you just read the book it's based on or ripped from.

Arbok · « **Reply #22 on:** February 26, 2006, 11:42:48 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica
When VHS came out the movie industry introduced Widescreen...

VHS has been around since the 50's?

KDR_11k · « **Reply #23 on:** February 27, 2006, 03:09:21 AM »

Ssssshh! Don't destroy his conspiracy theory with facts!

capamerica · « **Reply #24 on:** February 27, 2006, 03:41:08 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica
When VHS came out the movie industry introduced Widescreen...

VHS has been around since the 50's?

Sorry that was a mistake. I was typeing really fast and I was grouping things together. And hey It was just a theory I was working on with my Dad.

Widescreen was created by the Film industry to counter TV.

Also looks like i was off with Stereo too, I was thinking the time it came out for TV not movies.

But anyway what I'm just trying to say is that the Theaters always had something better then the Home user had but now they don't.

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
No. The cinema has a gigantic screen and expensive sound setup. It gets movies first. That's the big factors, not the resolution.

Never mind that the cinema is cheaper than buying a DVD and I never watch a movie twice anyway. Rentals are the biggest problem there, rentals don't require that you show up at a specific time to watch the movie and rentals allow you to eat the food you have at home. Rentals also allow you to skip the ads (I've done that often enough even when the DVD was programmed not to let me, stop and chapter skip are your friend).

The "Gigantic" screen really isn't that great compared to a nice 46" HDTV. Unless your in one of the first 5 rows the movie really seems no bigger. The sound set up is nothing special as well. And as for getting movies first, well that is slowly starting to change, Universal and Disney are going to be starting to push out more direct to DVD movies AND Disney is planing to start releasing movies to Theaters AND DVD the same week.

The Cinema here is not cheaper than buying a DVD. And I'm referring to the whole Cinema experience, Ticket, Popcore and a soda. Heck even not getting a Popcore and Soda if just 2 people go to the Cinema it costs almost the same as buying a DVD.
DVD = $15-20
Cinema = $17 (Ticket=$9 / Popcorn(small)=$5 / Soda(small)=$3)

I will agree that Rentals are a big problem, But not only to the Cinema. Hollywood keeps bitching that they are losing money cause of people Pirating movies on the internet. What they should be bitching about are the Mom & Pop Movie Rental stores that go to Wal-Mart and buy a copy of the movie and rent that. Not only does that Cut into Hollywood's profits and make them think people are Pirating movies its also illegal. I think the people to mostly blame for all this Security BS is the Rental stores. Cause God forbid that Hollywood look into them.

I worked at a Movie Rental place for awhile while I was in school and the guy there would buy all his DVDs from Wal-Mart and all his videogames used from GameStop. He did this so he could bypass the licencing fees to rent the movies. Normally when you buy a movie to rent you buy a copy that costs around $700(give or take) this is on a per-copy base so for every copy you want to carry you have to pay $700. Now you understand a bit why they get so pissed when you lose a movie.

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Author Topic: The Blue-Ray/HD-DVD DVI standard and how it could really screw the PS3. (Read 14247 times)