Topic: Wow, Sony is Making Nintendo Look Good (Also a little E3 conjecture that comes from this)

[Ceric]

This is probably the wrong forum but it's the right people so, bear with me.  Have any of you read anything about the PS3 stuff lately.  I tend to read it every once and while to keep up as a knowledgeable gamer.  They insist that they are going to still release in the Spring why everything indicates they won't be ready.  After reading through some of the news about it instead of getting more excited I keep getting more and more turned off.  Did you know that Sony is now on the record of saying that it will not output 1080p to keep the processor usage down and the framerates up.  Didn't they promise dual screen 1080p?  Theres also another rumor stating that there going to sell the unit at $900.  What is beleived to be the components price.  This is after CNET went "Wait that can't be right" about the original report and recrunched the numbers to find that they had to agree.  God of War 2 is going to be on the PS2 and launched in February of 2007.  If you ever played the game it screamed Next Gen for the sequal.  I don't see how it could push the PS2 anymore.  The more I read the less I want it, grant it I wasn't that excited about it to begin with.  Just read through some of there stuff and they are doing a terrible public relation job.  Sony seems squarley(sp?) aimed at there feet.

Then I see the Rev launch hype.  I'm stoked and I'm sure since your here you are too, yes that includes you too Ian, Nintendo isn't giving me that much information and is playing games but they haven't broken my trust about any of there information yet either.  Which is very important.  When looking between the two the PS3 launch has all the stuff that we Revites crave but I don't know if that would be the best thing.  IF rumor is true and Nintendo will soon have everything in place to start Revolution Production gearing up for the Worldwide launch then it becomes sort of clear why they would wait.  Especially when I use the PS3 as a lens to focus it.  If Nintendo starts produce the release Revolutions before E3 lets say the week before.  That way every machine at E3 is a production line box, everything pretty much set and ready.  There won't be any surprises.  At that point the hardware will be locked down and only the firmware and software could be changed.  Then you can make your announcements.  You could also hold back on showing off features by just not showing any software that utilizes them.  You sent your trusted press home with one and an agreement to not take it apart, *cough* Hard[OCP], then everytime you announce a new feature, "Hey whats this Demo disc doing in my Mailbox" or even better "My Rev says theres a new Demo for Download now."  That way you get the announcement out and the astute reviewers will be able to put there 2 cents about it also.  I mean they would anyway but they would have actually tried it.  This would make nice sense.  Nintendo would also get the added benefit of having some non-internal testers so if there is anything that really does need addressed before launch they can have it ready to go.  Being Nintendo there could be a negligible cost to being allowed to have one.  Sort of like a press pass.  A package that Nintendo would ensure that you get a copy of all of there announcements, artistic material, review materials on upcoming games, etc.

Closing Thought:
If I didn't know anything about Nintendo and Sony and there past consoles and standing I really would think that Sony looks like a joke and Nintendo is stingy.  (Ok, even knowing how the last gen faired I think that Sony is cocky.) -Ceric

[Smash_Brother]

See, this is one of the things which has always irritated me.

It seems that, no matter what happens, Sony's broken promises are downplayed if not outright forgotten on a regular basis.

Meanwhile, if Nintendo offers something which they don't deliver, it's rubbed in their faces for years by indignant fanboys.

[jasonditz]

The $900 rumor was actually cost, not retail price. Its a couple hundred bucks more than a decked out 360 evidently costs MS to make, so it's going to force Sony to either sell for much more or take huge losses. You also forgot another recent rumor that ties into this: that to try to keep from bankrupting themselves with spiraling costs, they're going to retail it for $500 and sell the hard drive as a seperate addon for an extra $100...

At this point, the 360's actually starting to look pretty good too (I'm eyeing the Rev as a second console unless they wow me at E3)...  say what you will about Microsoft, they're willing and able to subsidize the game experience on their system a lot better than Sony. The PS3 is starting to shape up like the CD-i... interesting technology (even ahead-of-its-time), but priced out of the mainstream and doomed to spend its life on the sidelines. Unless the Japanese are much more willing to shell out $600 for a console than I am... I think nintendo's going to really clean up in that market.

 

[UncleBob]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Meanwhile, if Nintendo offers something which they don't deliver, it's rubbed in their faces for years by indignant fanboys.

Damnit, I still want my Game and Watch-e cards.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
Damnit, I still want my Game and Watch-e cards.

I meant Ian, but as long as you're here...

[Strell]

Quote
Originally posted by: UncleBob
Damnit, I still want my Game and Watch-e cards.

If this doesn't win this thread, then I don't know what will.

 

[slacker]

Alas, it looks like Sony is making a huge blunder. They prematurely relied on unfinished technology and now its costing them. Selling PS3 at huge losses will hurt. It will hurt even more if Sony release after the Revolution. Xbox360 is having production problems and this is a huge window of opportunity for Nintendo to take back a large chunk of market share. Nintendo must launch during this Summer, at least in Japan. If Revolution is such a great and unique experience, it would have about 6 months to build word of mouth and even gain momentum for the US launch, perhaps in November.  So when PS3 launch, no one would pay attention or it would be perceive to be too expensive for the experience.  I don't see how the Revolution can fail, unless Nintendo triedto screw up. The stars seem to be aligned for Nintendo to make a return to the top. This generation, Nintendo actually have a legitimate shot at recapturing a huge chunk of the home market.

[KDR_11k]

"It's not finished" was never a reason for Sony not to release it now.

[Michael8983]

Sony is in trouble. Just look at the past consequences of poor hardware choices. Sega went from being a major force in the console market but lost everything when it made the mistake of designing the Saturn with 2D games in mind and giving it such complicated architecture that was incredibly difficult to develope for. Nintendo lost its status as the market leader to a newcomer when it made the mistake of using the expensive cart format for the N64 which also happened to be really difficult to develope for.
The PSX crushed both of these competitors simply because, unlike them, it was sensible, cheap, and easy to develope for. Even if it wasn't the most technically advanced peice of hardware. Remind anyone of anything?
 

[MaryJane]

i was contemplating buying a ps3, not because i think its going to be better than the rev, but because of sony's typically huge fanbase, there are a lot of games that only come out for their system which I want to play. hopefully with all the issues sony is having, that 1080p thing, and now the whole blue-ray hd-dvd issues, maybe nintendo can steal back some of it's classic (third-party) franchises. like final fantasy, dragon quest, contra, and so on. only thing i think nintendo needs to do is include a hard drive, give us 2GB 64,SNES, and NES games aren't that big, so a lot of space isn't needed, but more than 512MB, (is that what the flash memory for the rev is currently?). or at least, give the option to be able to connect a portable hard drive to the rev to be able to save games and other stuff.  

[Dirk Temporo]

I, all my friends, and everyone I know online (even the dedicated Sony fans) all think that if Sony releases in Spring, they're completely retarded.

[jasonditz]

Quote
Originally posted by: MaryJane
i was contemplating buying a ps3, not because i think its going to be better than the rev, but because of sony's typically huge fanbase, there are a lot of games that only come out for their system which I want to play. hopefully with all the issues sony is having, that 1080p thing, and now the whole blue-ray hd-dvd issues, maybe nintendo can steal back some of it's classic (third-party) franchises. like final fantasy, dragon quest, contra, and so on. only thing i think nintendo needs to do is include a hard drive, give us 2GB 64,SNES, and NES games aren't that big, so a lot of space isn't needed, but more than 512MB, (is that what the flash memory for the rev is currently?). or at least, give the option to be able to connect a portable hard drive to the rev to be able to save games and other stuff.

Wasn't it supposed to support SD cards or something as a way of expanding storage space?  

[Ceric]

Yes.  Rumor has it that all the SD stuff is upgradeable.

[MaryJane]

I knew about the sd card expansion but they can be expensive

[Smash_Brother]

Actually, $90 for 1GB is pretty good.

You pay about $30 for a 16MB memory card on the cube. 1GB will last you basically forever unless you download every NES, SNES, and N64 game out there.

And SD is upgradeable. The format is widely used because the ceiling seems to keep going and going.

I know they also have 2GB and 4GB SD cards out now.

[RiskyChris]

/half-topic

Has Ninty revealed target prices for virtual console games?

[Strell]

Holy crap.  90 for SD is insane, and you'll only pay that if you don't do some shopping around.

Go to dealnews.com daily.  Everyday someone is selling an SD card cheap.  You can get a 2 gig for 90, and I am not even joking.  1 gigs can be as low as 30 bucks.  You can get Sandisks for 40-50 easily, and they are highly reputable.

You should never, ever buy any sort of computer accessory or component at Best Buy, Target, Walmart, or any other B&M place.  Always buy them online.  Most of the time you get free shipping AND don't have to pay taxes.  This includes things like USB cords, memory/media, mice, etc.  All of it can be had MUCH cheaper at online stores.

The only B&M stores I've seen with halfway decent deals on such things are CompUSA and Circuit City.  Everyone else is gouging you, bad.

Flash memory is a hot commodity right now, and prices are going to plummet for the rest of the year easily.  By the time the Rev launches, you could easily get a 4 gig SD card for less than 120, if not less than 100.  There's no reason to buy any right now unless you have the tech to use it immediately (i.e., digital camera).  

Otherwise just wait.  I purchased a one gig compactflash card last January (over a year ago) for 90, and the price has fallen by over 50% now.  That trend will only continue.  Flash memory will only get smaller, faster, and cheaper, and it's hugely competitive right now.  

[MaryJane]

u got me there. i forgot about the first gc memory cards.

i think we know two things about the virtual console.
1. you can download old nintendo games
2. it's going to be on the still codenamed Nintendo Revolution

[WuTangTurtle]

the thing for me is that spending $100 on a 4 gig sd card makes me kinda sad when Nintendo could make the system with say a 10 or 20 gig hard drive, but i guess that would only increase the system price which is what they don't want to do.  

I dunno i guess its just that my mind can't comprehend why on earth i can buy say an external hard drive with 250 gigs or more for about $200 but for consoles i can't get much for that same $200.  There is a reason why i don't buy jump drives (usb memory cards).

[KDR_11k]

The PSX crushed both of these competitors simply because, unlike them, it was sensible, cheap, and easy to develope for. Even if it wasn't the most technically advanced peice of hardware. Remind anyone of anything?

You mean like how the easy to develop for XBox crushed the difficult to develop for PS2?

i was contemplating buying a ps3, not because i think its going to be better than the rev, but because of sony's typically huge fanbase, there are a lot of games that only come out for their system which I want to play.

I wouldn't contemplate buying a game system because it might have so many exclusives long before the system is released. Wait a year or two after it is released and THEN ponder whether it's worth buying.

You should never, ever buy any sort of computer accessory or component at Best Buy, Target, Walmart, or any other B&M place. Always buy them online.

Unless you have a computer store nearby, those usually cost the same as the online stores (because often they ARE online stores). Trustworthyness is a big issue with computer hardware shops, especially the online variant and if you can just go over and talk to them that can help if problems arise. Never mind that most of these stores have competent employees that can help you if you have questions.

the thing for me is that spending $100 on a 4 gig sd card makes me kinda sad when Nintendo could make the system with say a 10 or 20 gig hard drive, but i guess that would only increase the system price which is what they don't want to do.

The problem is that harddrives are a fixed cost. Unlike the rest of the console a harddrive assembly won't become cheaper over time. That's why MS dropped the HD as well, they are a huge cost factor and having to pay 50$ for one component of a console can really hurt you when the console has seen a few price drops. Never mind that historically HDs have been popular for ripping games to HD on a modded console.

[Michael8983]

"You mean like how the easy to develop for XBox crushed the difficult to develop for PS2?"

That two year head-start cancelled out whatever disadvantage Sony had this last time around.
But who knows, perhaps if the much easier to develope for XBox and Gamecube had been released the same time as the PS2, things could be very different today. But the way things went down, by the time developers even got the competitor's dev kits, they were learning to tolerate PS2 development and the extra effort was justified by the exponentially larger userbase the console had.
If the REV and PS3 launch around the same time and the former is much easier and cheaper to develope for, it will make a difference.
Not saying the REV would get the majority of support but it could easily get more third-party support than the N64 and Gamecube EVER did.

[ShyGuy]

What's to stop a large game for the revolution from shipping with a 256-512mb SD card?

[MaryJane]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
i was contemplating buying a ps3, not because i think its going to be better than the rev, but because of sony's typically huge fanbase, there are a lot of games that only come out for their system which I want to play.

I wouldn't contemplate buying a game system because it might have so many exclusives long before the system is released. Wait a year or two after it is released and THEN ponder whether it's worth buying.

Well, that's what I meant, after the games come out for it, like Final Fantasy and dragon quest, I would think about buying it. Let's face it, graphics are impressive, if the ps3 can really produce graphics like the killzone preview at last yrs e3 i would be thoroughly impressed, and maybe want to buy one even more, because of games like final fantasy.

Quote
What's to stop a large game for the revolution from shipping with a 256-512mb SD card?

Nothing except that it doesn't happen very often that a game launches with a memory card.  

[Strell]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k

You should never, ever buy any sort of computer accessory or component at Best Buy, Target, Walmart, or any other B&M place. Always buy them online.

Unless you have a computer store nearby, those usually cost the same as the online stores (because often they ARE online stores). Trustworthyness is a big issue with computer hardware shops, especially the online variant and if you can just go over and talk to them that can help if problems arise. Never mind that most of these stores have competent employees that can help you if you have questions.

KDR, I understand you are somewhere across the pond (Germany I believe, or within proximity), and given that I don't know your personal history, I can conclude that you either moved there from an English speaking country (possibly the USA), simply learned English (given that non-Americans are bilingual, if not trilingual, in a huge number of places), or move around constantly.  

Point I'm trying to make is that I'll assume, given your post, that perhaps you've never lived in the USA.  

The only reason this is important is because - in the USA at least - employees at computer stores are absolutely clueless 90% of the time.  Most of them wouldn't know the Dreamcast from the PS2, wouldn't know USB from a power cord, wouldn't know a DVD-R from a CD-RW, etc etc etc.  Just completely clueless on the technological front.

That said, I would never, ever trust an employee in Best Buy, Target, etc etc, to give me valid advice for questions about technology.  Either they don't know OR they are working on commission, and in either case, it spells bad news for uninformed consumers.  Because of that, the whole trust issue is negated at the B&M level because you're going to deal with clueless people 90% of the time.

The other side of the trust issue - online websites - also makes me think you haven't lived in the USA, simply because there are several online stores that are highly reputable.  Newegg and Amazon to name a few, whom I've never had issues with, and always deliver prices far lower than local shops.  Hell, most of the time an online component of a store bests their instore price, and if you bring that up at the counter, they normally WILL NOT match their online prices.  It's a tax thing - usually a store's online counterpart is a wholly separate entity for tax purposes, so their prices WILL compete with each other.  (The workaround is to order it online but choose store pickup, but still, it's a pain.)

I guess the reason for this post is that I'm surprised someone would be finding competent people within a store AND prices that match online, because I've never seen that here.  Not even close, actually.  Maryjane linked to a $90 SD 1gig card, and on dealnews.com I see one going for 30, have seen 2 gigs going for 70-90, and have seen Dual USB/SD card 1gigs going for 70-80.  All of those options are vastly superior.  It only takes a few minutes to research the brand (I suggest Sandisk, btw) and only a few more minutes to look up the website itself (via epionions.com or other store rating sites).  

I mean, Target sells 128 meg USB drives for normally 20-30 dollars.  A 32 meg Memory stick for the PSP at Gamestop costs 20.  That is INSANE.  You can get 128 meg USB drives for less than 10, and I've gotten 128 meg Memory Sticks for less than 5 bucks.

Final point?  Gamers can afford media pretty easily.  Microsoft charging 100 bucks for a 20 gig hard drive is pure price gouging.  Nintendo giving people the option to get any size SD card from any brand is far more liberating, and given that 4 gig SD cards will be sub-100 within the year, I'd say thats a far better deal.  Not to mention portable.  I realize the extra cost sucks, but I assure you prices will fall, and you can always get a better deal online.

[MaryJane]

Good points strell, and to add to that yesterday my brother reminded me when I was discussing the whole sd card thing with him, that buying a 1 or 2 GB card for $90 is good considering that I bought 5 gc memory cards for $30 each over the course of the gc's life, and you can't trade them in. (i like to play games especially rpg's over and over, so i don't delete things, plus certain sports games need their own memory cards, which is why i need 5, although right now i only use 3, well 4 cuz i need a seperate one for the naruto imports.)