Author Topic: Why is the console so small?  (Read 53798 times)

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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #150 on: February 26, 2006, 05:56:12 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: BigJim
I was letting the issue drop with my previous post in this thread because nobody's mind is going to be changed, but alrighty then.

One in Four Households Expect to Have HDTV Within 2006


Flaws with the article:

1. "A new survey from Panasonic reveals..."

Sorry, but show me a consumer census which is not gathered by the company who relies upon projecting strong sales of the product they ask about.

2. "This survey was conducted nationwide by phone with 1061 adults aged 18 to 65. The margin of error is plus or minus five percent. For additional information on the survey, please contact Panasonic ."

So they asked a little over a thousand people and assume that this accurately represents "all US households". Who is their demographic? What kind of income did these households have?

This survey is meaningless. All I see is a pile of BS from Panasonic saying that their TVs will sell well. Phone-based surveys are immensely easy to "fix" to get whatever results you want because you can pick and choose who you want to call in the first place and omit data which you don't see as relevant.

Sorry, but if you want to prove that HDTVs are going to be more than a luxury in a year, the survey will have to provide more information as to the demographic they surveyed and not be done by a company which already has a personal stake in the outcome.
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Offline antman100

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #151 on: February 26, 2006, 06:38:50 AM »
Alright...if you can't afford a HDTV, that's fine.  If you think Nintendo's decision not to support HD is right, that's fine.  Even, if you think HD is over-rated, that's fine.

But...stop using the fact that you don't or can't own one to justify ridiculous statements:  HD only looks good for TV and movies, it only looks good if I am in my neighbor's basement.  A 60" HDTV can only be viewed from the moon to get the proper detail.  HDTVs can't make my morning coffee, so why the hell should Nintendo include it?

If you think SD is the be all, end all...I'm happy for you.  Don't use Nintendo's technology decisions to insinuate that people HDTVs got hood-winked or short-changed.

Nintendo is not going to support HD.  The truth is, what any of us think only represents a very small percentage of potential buyers.  Let's restart this thread in 3 years and see how things are going.

For the record, I actually tried to post based on the title, but I can now see that it's a lost cause.  Can I lock a thread for myself?

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #152 on: February 26, 2006, 07:15:29 AM »
I can afford an HDTV, but I won't buy one for many reasons.

But what ridiculous statements do you mean? That most networks don't even support the format yet or that a 27" HDTV (with the necessary tuner) costs the same as a 40" SDTV?

EDIT: And it looks like Hollywood has decided to screw HDTV owners. REALLY glad I didn't buy one now...
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #153 on: February 26, 2006, 07:35:23 AM »
what I was saying abotu the snes was when I playe dit I did notice abig difference in the details, and theimage ws sharper, but it could be I have gototen used to playing it on a really old sd tv that has worn out pucture tube in the first place so thast why I am torn, I havent seen the proof that HD is so much better, but I want a big screen HD Tv to lay my games on, and watch movies, but I dont thnk its worth the extra cost just for better picture I want it beause i want abig screen tv to play game son and watch movies on. no 27 inch for me thast too small.  
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #154 on: February 26, 2006, 07:39:31 AM »
You can get a big screen SDTV with 480p which will look beautiful and will be a fraction of the price of an HDTV of similar size.

HDTV won't look better unless the content is specifically designed for it.
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Offline Strell

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #155 on: February 26, 2006, 07:39:34 AM »
The only problem I have with HDTV owners is that they are hugely elitist.  Hugely.  They swear by how their technology is so vastly superior that SDTV hurts their eyes and thus can't watch it without developing some sort of headache or eye strain.  

That sort of crap is ridiculous.  You might notice a difference, but you don't suddenly become so accostumed to HDTV that anything else is like stabbing your retinas with forks, qtips, or some other object.

The other thing I've noticed is that in most cases, gamers in forums are kids who had their parents buy them the HDTV set -OR- they are still living at home, and thus happen to have access.  And yes, that's an unfair generalization, but everytime I read some 16 year old talking about their 50" set, I can't help but imagine them being huge spoiled brats.

I'm for Nintendo's decision because it keeps cost down, and since I'm a fresh college grad representing the HEIGHT of the demographic, I'd rather get a system plus games, knowing I'm sacrificing something that, in all reality, isn't THAT huge of a leap in technology and will do little to enhance the experience.

Those of you who have purchased HDTVs with your own hard earned cash, I must admit I am jealous.  So there's no need for you to reply with some sort of insulting post, because I'd much rather have what you have.

Edit: Oh, and SB's link to the HDMI thing?  Ouch.  I will echo his comments in saying that I am super glad I have waited (mostly due to money concerns, but again, that's the whole jealousy thing acting up).  
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #156 on: February 26, 2006, 07:59:28 AM »
My own personal opinion is that TV and movies these days aren't good enough to justify the highest end medium to view them on (that's saying I can get them broadcast in HD to start with). I don't think that makes me an "exception", though.

As the article implies, the movies which will take advantage of the format, HD-DVD and BluRay, won't even be compatible with current HDTVs, making them damn near worthless in the grand scheme of things.

If you disliked HDTV owners because they were elitist, congrats: they all just took a huge kick to the teeth, courtesy of Hollywood.
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Offline Artimus

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #157 on: February 26, 2006, 08:57:25 AM »
I own (my mom owns...) a 32" inch Panasonic SD she bought with our DVD player. It supports component input and that's what we use for our DVDs. When I compare the picture quality with an HD setup in say...the Sony Store's living room of the future diplay thingy (which is a brand new HDTV hooked up to a brand new DVD player with compnent) ours looks as good, or better. The HD is sharper, yes, but because the resolution of the DVD is lower than the TV, you can clearly see blurry backgrounds and pixelated elements because they're encoded at a lower rate. Whereas on my SDTV everything is smotth and pretty, and the limits of the format aren't visible.

HDTV is GREAT, but DVDs don't take advantage of it...And the picture quality for video games just doesn't matter that much...

Offline lastexit

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #158 on: February 26, 2006, 09:04:14 AM »
On the topic of HD, market penetration is really not very good as of yet.  Sure, it will improve incrementally this year and more so next year, I figure HDTV will become a major player around Xmas 2007.  Survey respondents may well say they "intend" to buy an hdtv this year but they won't do it.  It's expensive.  More importantly, the PROGRAMMING isn't there.  THAT is what is slowing HDTV adoption in the USA.  I'm a baseball fan and would absolutely buy an HDTV (willing to spend the 1k) if I could watch all of my team's games in HDTV, heck, even if HALF of them were available.  They're not.  The ones that are are not in "real" hdtv, they're just in a slightly enhanced signal.

The majority of hdtv's out there aren't operating in real hdtv resolutions.  A huge percentage DON'T OWN HDTV TUNERS.  I know several people who have hdtv's in their house and they don't even use it's higher resolutions.  This is because until this year tv's weren't required to have tuners.  Only now are the largest sizes required.  My xmas 2007 timeframe is rather realistic.  Only then will HDTV be a real issue.

That said, in Japan high-def tv is a reality and has been for quite some time.  Nintendo has an office full of hdtv sets.  That's probably all they play games on. Progressive scan, moderately improved graphics and wide-screen support are what the next gen of consoles really need.  Programming games to take advantage of HDTV is a major cost for a limited improvement.  Video games are falsely created worlds, there are zillions of tricks to make things look better and more real that CANNOT BE APPLIED TO LIVE TV.  Television gains quite a bit from real HDTV.  Video games?  not nearly so much.  Progressive scan is responsible for a significant percentage of the "performance increase" people see in hdtv games.

Further, Nintendo has a HUUUGE advantage.   Development.  Developing has become very expensive as more and more people are trying to get into the biz.  They know that smaller, independent (for now at least) outfits can and will produce good games if given the chance.  The GC development kits have been out there for years.  The Rev will have very solid games coming out in its first year because it's development platform is maturing.  The "ceiling" has not been reached at all, but it's going to start out in its stride whereas the PS3 will be a newborn at that time and xbox360 will just be starting to walk.  Developing for HDTV is a major expenditure.  

The fact of the matter is that most people won't be able to tell the difference when shown a Revo game on a widescreen hdtv and most 360 and ps3 games.  There are studies that show that most consumers can't really tell the difference on hdtv's/sdtv's right now.  Sad, but true.  WE can, but we're mostly techies.

As for Ian Sane, he lives in a bubble.  He's way too concerned about appearing uncool in public and is very aware of public perception in that manner.  The other way to perceive public perception acutely is to be a leader, a trendsetter.  Ian Sane is not a trend setter, he's a catastrophist.  Nintendo's marketing this time around is so far very very good.  Reggie is doing a number on their way of doing things.  

Price point also makes a huge difference.  Console design is VERY BIG.  The Revo will appeal to a huge number of people who wouldn't buy the ps3 or xbox.  This is a reality.  Watch sales of DS-Lite when it comes out for confirmation.  THEY WILL EXPLODE.

Nintendo is doing everything right.  If the third-party developers come along for the ride things will work out.  Sony is going broke on the PS3.

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #159 on: February 26, 2006, 11:33:29 AM »
I agree, and I think it all depends on what they do come E3.

If they absolutely blow the doors out of E3, then follow it with a stellar launch and solid 3rd party support, they win. Game over.

I think the industry is in need of something new and innovative. God knows, I've played every genre (FPS, RPG, sports sim, racing sim, life sim, pet sim, adventure game, etc.) to death.

Time we had something new...
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Offline BigJim

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #160 on: February 26, 2006, 01:21:05 PM »
"Sorry, but show me a consumer census which is not gathered by the company who relies upon projecting strong sales of the product they ask about."

And yours was outdated, posted from last May. The information, not just a Panasonic survey, was all over CES from everyone and their mother, independent and not. It was one sample article that happened to be at the top of a google search. It's expected, broadly.


"As the article implies, the movies which will take advantage of the format, HD-DVD and BluRay, won't even be compatible with current HDTVs, making them damn near worthless in the grand scheme of things.s"

The situation is not quite as dire as the article claims, though it's not a rosey picture either. Those being screwed are the VERY early adopters that bought HDTVs with no digital HDCP-compatible inputs (and the players aren't completely unusable, the video is down-rez'ed when viewed in analog, which the article got wrong). HDTVs made in the last few years are largely ok. I don't agree with their attack on fair use, but that's the story.


"they all just took a huge kick to the teeth, courtesy of Hollywood."

Everybody is getting kicked in the teeth, current HDTV owners or not, if AACS rules stand in their current form.  
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #161 on: February 26, 2006, 01:30:46 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: BigJim
It was one sample article that happened to be at the top of a google search. It's expected, broadly.


Like I said, link me a source which doesn't have a personal stake in it and I'll believe you. They expect the technology to propagate because it's new and because it's improved. They also expected betamax to do the same, as well as mini-disc, and look where those are now.

You can't "force" the marketplace to move. Consumers will buy new TVs when their old ones die and the HD is low enough in price that its economical. I do not believe this will be in the next 3-4 years.

They haven't stopped manufacture of the older sets yet (because, surprise, people are still buying them) and HD broadcast hasn't claimed enough of the airwaves to justify getting one for the average consumer. I think HD is a forced format which is not going to benefit gaming companies and it's being given far too much credit for its price tag.

Quote

Everybody is getting kicked in the teeth, current HDTV owners or not, if AACS rules stand in their current form.


Agreed, and like the article said, it'll be this which kickstarts the online media distribution, tenfold.
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Offline BigJim

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #162 on: February 26, 2006, 01:57:32 PM »
Super Googleization Power Activate!

Reports and quotes from Jupiter, Forrester, and other random news items. You can buy the whole report from Jupiter for $800, but I passed.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #163 on: February 27, 2006, 06:52:29 AM »
"As for Ian Sane, he lives in a bubble. He's way too concerned about appearing uncool in public and is very aware of public perception in that manner. The other way to perceive public perception acutely is to be a leader, a trendsetter. Ian Sane is not a trend setter, he's a catastrophist. Nintendo's marketing this time around is so far very very good. Reggie is doing a number on their way of doing things."

And you know this about me how?  If I personally cared about public perception do you think I would post unpopular opinions on this board?  Lord knows it would easier if I just shut up and followed what everyone else says.  Unless I'm misinterpretting what you're saying.

You guys are getting way too hung up on the HD stuff.  The issue is not HD.  The issue is Nintendo telling us what's important and what we should or shouldn't care about.  It's Nintendo deciding that not only do we not want to need HD but that we won't for the next five years.  Someone said lets start this thread again in three years.  Three years is within the five year span before Nintendo's next console would be released.  If HD will be an issue then, then it's an issue NOW.

I don't like how Sony and MS are forcing devs to support HD.  I think it's too restrictive to the developer.  If they want to cut costs and not support the feature they should have the option.  But Nintendo's method of "no HD for anyone" is equally restrictive.  What if a dev wants to support HD?  Multiplatform companies like EA and Ubisoft have to originally design the game with HD in mind anyway so they aren't going to save any money.  Plus Nintendo is also restricting their userbase, while Sony and MS are not.  A real advantage would be total flexibility.  The option should be there for whoever wants to use it.  If third parties want to save money they can and no one is forced to do anything.  But Nintendo doesn't have that so they have no advantage.  They're equally restrictive (or perhaps moreso) and thus gain nothing.  They're just different.  They should be BETTER.

In the end HD probably won't make a difference but combined with other problems it might depending on how things work out.  But it isn't good for Nintendo to still have that "do as we say" attitude.  That attitude is why they're in last place and I don't think they'll have a serious chance of breaking out of that position as long as they have that attitude.

Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #164 on: February 27, 2006, 07:28:01 AM »
see now here I do agree with Ina, its the fact that Nintendo is skimping on something that they could be using, but I still think that its not going to make adiffernce one way or the other, unless games DONT get ported because of the NO DH thing. THEN there will be problems.

BUT I do not think HD is goign to sell that many people on the system or turn that many people away. The only people I think it will affect IS the developers, but I dont think it matetrs too much ebcasue REV can still display progressive scan which ISNT that bad either.  
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #165 on: February 27, 2006, 07:33:13 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: BigJim
Super Googleization Power Activate!

Reports and quotes from Jupiter, Forrester, and other random news items. You can buy the whole report from Jupiter for $800, but I passed.


First of all, a lot of those are based on the same article put out by Panasonic.

Second, unless HDTVs see a MASSIVE price drop in the next 4 years, then I still say that these articles are exercising something the business world calls "optimism".

The "saturation" will come when they stop manufacturing analogue TV sets, which they have yet to do.

And Ian, I think you're reading too far into Nintendo's comments. Even if they say, "We don't think it's important." that's what they have to say for the sake of stockholders. It's your right as a customer to disagree, and if you disagree enough, buy a competing system.
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Offline Strell

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #166 on: February 27, 2006, 07:34:55 AM »
Ian, all companies tell us what we want.  Period.  Sony did so with freeing third party developers and the first honestly successful CD/3D based console.  Microsoft tells us what we want by including a hard drive and bringing robust online play to the console market.  So I can negate that part of your argument right there.

As for the HD stuff, it's been debated to death and the fact is that the positives far outweigh the negatives.  Low cost, faster development times, and graphics just as crisp and clean as the other two consoles when relegated to SDTVs is fine.  If the market honestly DOES become 25% HDTV by the end of the year, and continues to grow at the rate they expect it to for the next five years, then so be it, but it won't change the fact that the games on the Rev will look and play nicely.  It might be a restrictive measure, but it's done with the consumer in mind, and right now the best thing to do is sit back and see how it affects everyone.

We're thinking forwardly, and that is good.  But we represent the utter minority by being online tech-leveled gamer nerds.  The vast majority of....the majority won't even care.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #167 on: February 27, 2006, 07:49:23 AM »
"Ian, all companies tell us what we want. Period. Sony did so with freeing third party developers and the first honestly successful CD/3D based console. Microsoft tells us what we want by including a hard drive and bringing robust online play to the console market. So I can negate that part of your argument right there."

I don't think comparing Sony and MS providing more options for people and having it suceed to Nintendo deciding that we don't want something is a good comparison.  What difference would it have made if the harddrive for the Xbox wasn't well received?  Nothing.  The Xbox was no more expensive than the PS2 so it wasn't like people felt they were paying for something they didn't want.  If it flopped it would just have taken up space in the console but really wouldn't be that big of a deal.  When Nintendo tells us what we want they're usually telling us we DON'T want something that they're not including or they're making a tradeoff and are telling us we'll like their way better than the other one.  With Sony and MS it's typically just something being added.  In excess that can be bad but if anything Sony and MS have demonstrated that providing options for both third parties and consumers is the secret to a successful console.  Successful in terms of market share anyway.

Name me some popular consoles where the console maker consistently denied the public options and told them they didn't need this or that.  When has Nintendo saying "you don't need this" every not blown up in their face?

Offline MaryJane

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #168 on: February 27, 2006, 07:54:17 AM »
Nintendo: "You don't need a controller with 64 buttons" 1 point for nintendo. none for jaguar.  
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #169 on: February 27, 2006, 07:56:54 AM »
Hey, Alien vs. Predator was the shiznit.

Too bad nothing else was...
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Offline Strell

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #170 on: February 27, 2006, 08:02:40 AM »
You can't be serious, can you?  

The HDD adds cost.  THAT IS WHY THERE IS A CORE SYSTEM NOW FOR THE 360.

Given that, what if the HDD failed constantly?  What if it ties you to Microsoft and is used for DRM measures?  What if you can't replace it when it starts to fail AND save your information?  What if it is required for online play?  What if it segments the market?

There's a whole slew of reasons why it would suck to have that added, and if Microsoft does it with the intention of bettering their bottom line AND restricting customers to what they can and can't do (both of which have happened), then I'd say it's a terrible decision that hurts the consumer.

The converse is true also.  CAse in point, HDD on the PS2.  Wow, people paid a hefty sum for something that was utilized in maybe 10 games, if even that, and was so underwhelmingly impactful that no one cared.  Sony was telling us all these great things they could do with it, but then they just don't give a sh*t, and don't ask developers to work with it in mind, and ultimately becomes useless.  

Both instances where added costs and extras - the options, as you call them - can fail and ultimately piss people off.

As for Nintendo's actions, I'd say they have fared well over time.  They said we didn't need backlight on the Gameboy to increase battery life.  They said we didn't need CDs and 3D graphics on the current generation of portables.  They said you don't need multitaps with the N64, but instead we'll give you 4 player out of the box.  They said you don't countless add-ons for the SNES, something that saved them against Sega and rallied them against Playstation for a while.  

Now have they made mistakes?  Yes, but if you're not going to let me compare Nintendo to Sony and MS, I'm not going to let you compare hem either.  The difference between the situations is, like you said, the HDD (drive, I mean)  didn't add cost compred to the PS2.  *BUT* removing HD lowers the cost fo the Rev versus the 360 and the PS3.  I don't see why it can be one way but not the other.

Furthermore, their decisions in the past are far less gravitational than the HD argument, if you get what I'm saying.  Carts versus CDs was disasterous.  Compared to that, no HD is hardly registering on anyone's radar.  The consumer market can damn well see the difference between CDs and carts, physically and with price, but they will almost entirely FAIL to see HD versus non-HD.  I believe that is why it was significant to report than a small percentage of actual HD owners ACTUALLY USE THEIR HD CAPABILITIES, while the others are CLUELESS.  
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #171 on: February 27, 2006, 08:26:57 AM »
"Nintendo: 'You don't need a controller with 64 buttons' 1 point for nintendo. none for jaguar."

Well they never said that.  And that wasn't the reason the Jaguar failed.  I think it was the "almost every game sucks" factor.

"They said you don't need multitaps with the N64, but instead we'll give you 4 player out of the box."

That would be providing more options.  They were basically offering the same thing only Nintendo ensured that 100% userbase had access to four player support which would thus encourage third parties to widely support the feature.

The other points are pretty good, though I see the add-on thing with the Genesis related to "you don't need CDs" which was obviously a really stupid move.  If the cost issue is that big of a deal then it makes sense.  But I don't think HD drives the cost up by hundreds of dollars.  I don't think having a really cheap console if it's gutted and compromised is an advantage.

The Xbox 360 "Premium System" comes with an HD component cable, headset, ethernet cable, and hard drive.  The Rev isn't expected to come with ANY of that stuff and it really has no need to.  Those things drive the cost up.  MS and Sony are expensive because they give you everything with the assumption that you'll use everything.  Thus they're denying options.  Live related accessories or HD related accessories should be sold seperately.  Nintendo has that thing right.  They're not going to force us to buy stuff we might not need.  Therefore they can have a lower price without having significantly inferior hardware or no HD.  They already have a very logical way to avoid high costs.  Part of the reason for the high price of the PSP is that it comes with all sorts of bundled junk.

If they remove the bundled junk they're got a cheaper console that provides more flexibility.  But once they start removing features outright they bring in their own inflexibility and now people have to weigh their options.  Sony and MS are not providing much flexibility this gen and Nintendo has a golden opportunity to benefit from that but instead they're being just as restrictive but in a different way.  It could be "this guy assumes I'm going to use HD and thus forces me to buy the cable but this guy doesn't force me to buy the cable but instead gives me the option if I want it."  Intead it's "this guy assumes I'm going to use HD and thus forces me to buy the cable but this guys assumes I'll NEVER use HD and won't even give me the option."

Offline Strell

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #172 on: February 27, 2006, 10:28:32 AM »
If it were only that simple - giving a cable to give HD, or providing an HD-out capable port - then I might tend to agree.  

But that's not the case.  We're talking about something that is industry wide at this point.  Nintendo's omission of HD will decrease development time for everyone, first through third parties.  It lowers the cost to all consumers.  It forces people to think less about superfluous pretty graphics, and instead on gameplay.  It returns the game to video game.

The big problem I have with super grpahis is that all too often, developers use that as their reason for you to give any consideration toward their game.  Lack of gameplay?  No sweat.  All I'm going to see before buying the game, even as a hardcore tech internet nerd, are clips and impressions, and half the time those are picked with the intention of making the game look better than it is.  There's moles everywhere, and review companies are being paid nicely to give out sparkling reviews.  I mean, gosh, just look at the graphics in the commercial!

But the bottomline is that when I get the game and determine it's nothing more than an overwrought boring by the book FPS game, or a sports game with new rosters, or a platformers devoid of any kind of charm or innnovation, or an RPG starring a spunky 17 year old boy and his trusty girl friend-from-childhood white magic sidekick, or a racer that brings nothing to the table, etc etc etc, I could care less about graphics or reviews or impressions.

The fact is that graphics are the most easily exploitable component of a game, and the least important.  Period.  I'm not some idiot thinking graphics make the game.

I want gameplay.  Fun gameplay.  

And personally I think that is Nintendo's aim.  Throw out all that bs people are spouting about graphics and generational leaps in polygons, or the fact that basketball players can sweat, that dimples are on the football AND bump mapped, or that realistic cheerleaders are on the sidelines.  Or useless hundreds of enemies when I can only interact with 3-4 of them at a time, or drawing the same tree over and over with slight variations.

It's only like Nintendo is trying to get everyone to WAKE UP and realize that these are games on game systems.  They aren't tech demos, they aren't graphics displays, they aren't some trumped up soulless piece of technology to show us what WW2 was like for the umpteenth time.

They are meant to entertain.  They are meant to be played, not watched.

If the HD issue was as simple as removing a cable or including it, then we might be on the same page.  But we're not because I'm seeing what Nintendo wants to accomplish by ommitting it entirely - a return to roots and less emphasis on shallow reasons to be interested in a game to begin with it.  I'll gladly take 2D sprites or low polygon games if it means they entertain me longer than the tripe that is out these days.  And quite frankly Nintendo seems to be on board with that idea by telling people to shut the hell up about graphics, that it's a ceiling we've nearly reached, and instead of pushing it up an inch further for 10% graphic quality increase with 2X development time, we can safely remain where we are and focus on the experience.

THAT is far more intelligent.  MS isn't giving you a cable and caring whether or not you are using it.  They are giving it to you because they know they make a profit on it, and don't give a damn afterward.  They know they can charge a premium (no pun intended) with the idea that a small percentage of their customers CAN use it.  Now if 100% of those people buy an HDTV within the next 5 years, then yes, good decision.  But we all know that isn't the case - parents bought them for kids who don't know any better, teenagers who can't afford it, college students who don't have the cash or space, etc etc etc.  I'd suspect less than a third of their userbase will be HDTV compliant within the next five years, meaning the other two thirds got screwed.

There's also the fact that they can use it as marketspeak to no end.

So we can be pessimistic or optimistic about it.  100% of the Nintendo userbase gets screwed, or 100% of them save lots of cash, and hopefully gain access to games that were able to be developed quickly and still be innovative.

What fun is it being given the HD capable machine if you know you can't get money for it?  I'm pissed enough as is not being able to play progressive scan games right NOW, let alone knowing that the next generation can display a zillion pixels and my SDTV can't handle it.  I mean, I was thinking a few years ago an 800 buck tv would be sufficient, but thank god I didn't bite, because I would have been SCREWED.  And NOW I have to get a 1200 dollar one AT LEAST to be gauranteed that I can watch the next generation of media?  Where the hell does it all end?  

And that's when I think about the Rev and think well at least I know SOMETHING is going to work with whatever I have, and I don't have to be wrapped up in a lot of useless jargon and red tape by a bunch of corporate big wigs are sh*tting on my paycheck and laughing about it.

A cable doesn't magically give you HD.  Hundreds of hours of development time, skyrocketing costs, a nice television, lots of hours working for all that equipment, a huge (and dangerously inept in some cases) power supply, and a dozens of other things do.  If it WERE just the cable, Nintendo would sell it on the street and make a tidy profit, knowing that most of their fans won't use it, don't have the capability, or don't understand what they are getting.

Kinda like Microsoft.

I'm sure if we ran some developers down, they'd be annoyed by the HD issue too, but that's another thread.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #173 on: February 27, 2006, 11:08:27 AM »
"Nintendo's omission of HD will decrease development time for everyone, first through third parties. It lowers the cost to all consumers."

The cost of games will be the same for everyone unless Sony and MS start charging more.  If third parties started saving tons of money they would still charge the same amount and just get more profit.  And if Nintendo just provided the option there would be nothing stopping anyone from choosing not to support it in order to cut down on development costs.  At least then if a third party wanted to support HD they could and if it's so unimportant like everyone says it is then it's not like third parties would feel pressure because if it doesn't really matter because the sales won't be affected.  And if it does matter well cutting the feature outright would have a worse effect.

"It forces people to think less about superfluous pretty graphics, and instead on gameplay. It returns the game to video game."

I don't buy that for a second.  Nintendo cut HD because they're penny-pinchers.  They do care a lot about gameplay but this decision isn't part of some goal to bring gaming back to its roots or anything like that.  And even if it was it would never work.  Nintendo doesn't have that kind of influence anymore.

I want gaming to focus on being gaming again too but I don't think cutting HD is the answer.  The problems with gaming today is related to the content of the games themselves.  There are too many generic military games and games with licenced music and celebrity voice actors and crap like that.  It has never been a problem of graphics but rather of glitz.  Gaming is hurt by too many games getting by on glitz.  No HD is not going to remove that glitz because it existed prior to HD's existence.  If Nintendo wants to "save gaming" or whatever they need to regain their foothold in the market which will give them more influence.  They need some new big hits that sell systems and establish them as a relevent game maker instead of just a franchise farm that releases the same Mario stuff again and again.

Some would probably consider the remote as a response to this.  I don't see it that way but that makes way more sense then saying that removing HD is Nintendo making a statement.

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #174 on: February 27, 2006, 11:48:22 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The cost of games will be the same for everyone unless Sony and MS start charging more.


They ARE charging more.

PD0 retails for $59.99 and some games are even more than that.
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