Topic: Why is the console so small?

[animecyberrat]

well pro666 you nailed what I say saing right on.


I was respoinding to Ians remakrs about the NDA shouldnt affect Nintendo and Iw a saying how it certainly does. anyways I agree and I think Nintendo learned their lesson last time around, with the space world 2000 fiasco. Again more reasons to have faith in them this tiem, because they are addressing every issue form every angle, and I still maintian HD ownt matter one bit BECAUSE people are already starting to notice 360 does NOT look as good in Sd as HD and that since its made to be HD it looks bad on SD so Rev will look better in comparison, or at elast comparable, Iwato said that himself as has others I believe.




I haev 1 question for Ian Sane, do YOU even have an HD televison? cuz if not it does not affect you one bit either so why all the fuss? I mean you generaly make good points, and I tend to defent you from time to time, but the HD thing is a losing battle and I just cant figure out why you even fight it.

[Smash_Brother]

I think Nintendo has just turned a deaf ear to industry rumor.

Also, by not saying anything, they effectively prevent Sony and MS from boasting superior graphic capability. Rumor is one thing, proof is another and without proof, no one can say anything for certain.

[Ian Sane]

"I haev 1 question for Ian Sane, do YOU even have an HD televison?"

I don't but my parents do and I wouldn't mind trying the Rev out on that.  I'm not thinking strictly in terms of what I want or need.  I'm partially thinking about how this will affect the Rev within the next five years.  Since I like Nintendo I don't want their console sales to be limited by what I see as an obvious oversight.  And I could buy an HD within the next five years.  If I did I would want my console to support it.  That's a huge part of the point.  HD isn't really needed now but what about in 2011?  Nintendo has to make sure their console serves the needs and wants of the public within the next five years.  I think HD is going to increase in popularity each year and having a console that doesn't support it is going to look very out-of-touch and out-of-date.  Plus I'm just f*cking sick of Nintendo telling me what I should find important or not.  Give me the damn option.

Plus don't all of us own PC monitors?  Wouldn't it be cool to hook your console up to your monitor and see the games at a higher resolution?  It's funny because that was one of the first things Nintendo revealed about the Rev and it probably no longer applies.

[Smash_Brother]

I think that, in 2011, people are going to be even more poor than they are now.

Not sure about your neck of the woods, but the US economy is headed straight into the sh!tter. Most people will be more worried about buying food than HDTVs.

HDTV saturation is roughly 10% of US households right now. 10%. Including a feature that less than 1% of your customers will ever use it flat out retarded.

[BigJim]

"But considering the majority of the playing field is SD, will the performance be comparably weaker? I think not."

Nobody knows. Only Iwata claims it'll look the same due to less fillrate issues on SD. It's still built weaker from the ground up, and comparing the prime best of Cube vs. the weakest of the 360 is a weak defense. We certainly know what will look better on an HD TV, though.


"people are already starting to notice 360 does NOT look as good in Sd as HD and that since its made to be HD it looks bad on SD so Rev will look better in comparison"

Want some more Kool-Aid? We know squat about what Rev will look like on anything. I would hardly suggest 360 looks bad on either SD or HD, much less claim Rev somehow looks even better on weaker hardware when you still haven't see a thing.


"HDTV saturation is roughly 10% of US households right now. 10%. Including a feature that less than 1% of your customers will ever use it flat out retarded."

There is an estimated 25% HDTV penetration expected when Revolution launches, and that's a higher % than the wireless network Nintendo expects us to have. If HD is retarded, then it doesn't say much for their internet service.

[trip1eX]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane

It would benefit Nintendo significantly to show more than what they're showing.  People say the hardware isn't up to snuff.  Well they could prove us wrong with a couple screenshots.  People say the controller is too limiting to work with traditional games.  Well they could prove us wrong by demonstrating some titles.  

E3 man.  I know it's hard to believe Nintendo's business plans and timetables don't revolve around some armchair quarterbacks on a forum, but ..
 

[antman100]

The console is small b/c Nintendo is betting that it will be a big selling point.  If the majority of potential buyers think it is, the bet correctly.  If the majority of buyers don't give a rat's furry tush, they bet wrong.

A potential argument one could have is that, with wireless internet, the Revo is meant to be moved from place to place, for parties and such.  The problem is that I don't think you can use that in advertising because what you are telling people essentially is that if your buddy has one, you don't really need to get one.  Just call him/her/grandma up and tell them to bring it over.  I don't know, I suppose there must be a reason.  Small for the sake of small doesn't do anything for me.

P.S.  No HD support.

[Artimus]

At this point, showing screenshots are really pointless. There's no major announcements coming from Sony or MS in the next two and a half months, so why bother? If they're not launching until November any significant info/screens/games at this point would just spread out the E3 fever. And considering the importance of this controller, letting people play it is essentially.

We KNOW the Revolution is less power, its been confirmed. Considering Nintendo's stance against using CGI and FMV to show off fake graphical capabilities, showing screenshots would only allow Sony to show them up. The key isn't screenshots or info released, its whether or not the press gets behind the Rev. Screenshots aren't going to help that in the SLIGHTEST.

Don't put your own anxious impatience onto Nintendo as some sort of fault.

[Caliban]

I agree with Artimus in that the press will be very important to help Nintendo launch their new console, and not only do I agree but I think that it is the only way Nintendo will have a good chance of being uber-succesful.

In saying this, I also agree with Ian's prior comments (other threads) about Nintendo's marketing will be very important to their success but I don't agree with his technological comments (from this thread) because I don't see it of that much importance and it's all bullshit in my view.

[BigJim]

Re: HD. The original point was that HD wouldn't double or triple the price of the system, and Nintendo is cheap. That's all.

The good news with the press, at least, is that since they are apparently launching at the same time, PS3 stories are harder to write without at least mentioning Revolution. There is automatic "rub" by association. They also definitely need to get people trying it out to make their case. That'll be a challenge. Hopefully they'll have more kiosk POP presence as well as a tour like they did with Cube.

And Sony not having a 2 year headstart helps everybody for sure too.  

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"HD is not gameplay altering like online play is."

I agree and it's not that big of a deal on its own.  It's a problem in that it represents Nintendo continuing to skimp on features and make excuses and tell us what we should think is important.

Ok Ian, we get it, you need to have your ego stroked by your console and sissy remotes or stylii just don't stroke you, perhaps they even anti-stroke you. You don't like it and want Nintendo to throw millions into the dick sizing contest. But Nintendo won't and instead goes after markets where the competition is not so cut-throat, like non-gamers. So you're frustrated. We get it Ian, everyone gets it. But it isn't what Nintendo wants to do and you're not going to convince them otherwise so get over it. Nintendo should certainly know whats best for themself, better then you. If you don't like that, well too bad.

[PaLaDiN]

I'd guess the console is small for the same reason every other modern technogadget keeps getting smaller.

Miniaturization arouses technolust. The Rev is going to look pretty sleek next to the other two oversized, overheated, bulky monstrosities.

[MaryJane]

no paladin ur wrong!! only japanese gamers want smaller technology. that's why the motorola razr is selling so poorly. that's why no one buys mini-tower pc's. and it's also why no one bought the new sleeker, slimer ps2, and why no one is going to buy the ds lite.

oh wait none of that is true.  

[Renny]

31 Flavas raises and interesting point. Perhaps Nintendo likes to make things small so our members will look bigger. They do tend to cater to the Japanese market, afterall.

[RiskyChris]

Quote
Originally posted by: Renny
31 Flavas raises and interesting point. Perhaps Nintendo likes to make things small so our members will look bigger. They do tend to cater to the Japanese market, afterall.

I've been meaning to say this for a while now, but I thought it was wildly inappropriate.  =)

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
There is an estimated 25% HDTV penetration expected when Revolution launches, and that's a higher % than the wireless network Nintendo expects us to have. If HD is retarded, then it doesn't say much for their internet service.

*cough*

"However, some HDTV providers don't expect HDTV sets to become mainstream until pricing falls below $500 and manufacturers discontinue analogue sets. The most common HDTV sets being sold are in the 40" range consisting of LCD, Plasma and rear projection sets.

...

In fact, there may be several other items the consumer must get before they can begin watching true HD content.  Probably the cheapest option to start off would be to watch terrestrial HD content (if available) or subscribe to a satellite / cable TV service that offers HD programming.  Unfortunately, if the consumer is looking for HD players or recorders, these come quite expensive with most HD compatible PVR's costing $1,000 or higher, such as the one available with DirecTV."

I'm not convinced that the feature and forcing your developers to support it will be worth it at all. If Sony and MS are going to push the envelope on all games having HD textures, then I strongly feel that, yes, it WILL be detrimental to the development process and discourage development for their consoles.

I can't speak for other countries, but the US is not exactly going through a period of financial "growth" right now. It would be grossly incorrect to assume that HDTV will become the standard when, as of yet, networks are not pushing it and it has yet to be widely adopted. Furthermore, the damn things are expensive, and if you truly want to get HD, you need an HD Tuner which, as the article implies, will run you another $1,000.

Nintendo is aiming for the audience on a budget, and that's a sound concept because it's safer to assume people do NOT have money than assuming they do. HD isn't worth it. It's not worth the extra money for having the feature on the console and it's not worth having developers make textures for it when 9 of 10 customers won't ever see them.

[IceCold]

And Jim, I really don't see why you keep bringing up Nintendo's Wi-Fi connection and comparing it to HD. Wireless routers are extremely cheap these days; you can get good ones for only $30-$40 CDN. Can't say the same about HDTVs..

[Smash_Brother]

Not to mention that broadband costs $40-50 dollars a month, is useful for the whole family and allows you to be quicker and more efficient on the internet, also allowing you to do things like stream video, download mp3s lightning quick, use VoIP, and steal media and games (hey, it's the damn truth).

Broadband allows you to accomplish things you cannot do with dialup and is very cheap, and yet it still hasn't taken a mass market yet because people only buy what they need. HDTV allows you to see pictures sharper. That's it. You can't watch anything with HD that you cannot watch with a regular TV.

And broadband progression is FAR better than 10%.

[animecyberrat]

Not to mention that you dont even need broadband to use wifi connection.  

[Artimus]

Can I also point out that HDTVs aren't really that useful. The only thing you can use it for is television and video games. DVDs aren't the same resolution so playing a DVD on an HDTV isn't going to give you any better quality than on a really good SDTV with component cables. And most places charge more for HD channels than just getting standard definition (or at least require a unique cable package) so it's no different than broadband. Until Blu-Ray becomes the standard, it's pointless. I mean the PS3 needs to have HD compatability if it has Blu-Ray. But unless you want to buy a PS3 there's little point.

I thinK HD will be becoming the standard within the last two years of the Rev's life. And by that point its fate will be long decided anyway.  

[animecyberrat]

I still dont get why all the fussover HD anyways, I goto walmat every day and look at teh HDTV sets and still dont see why the big fuss, so it looks btter not so much better to make regular tv look bad.  


on second thought I take that back, I had an widescreen HDTV a while back, sold it when i moved, and it did make my SNES games look better even, but not so much better that I HAD to play my games on HD


so I guess I am torn, but I dont think it will affect REv sales AT ALL.  

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: animecyberrat
I still dont get why all the fussover HD anyways, I goto walmat every day and look at teh HDTV sets and still dont see why the big fuss, so it looks btter not so much better to make regular tv look bad.  


on second thought I take that back, I had an widescreen HDTV a while back, sold it when i moved, and it did make my SNES games look better even, but not so much better that I HAD to play my games on HD


so I guess I am torn, but I dont think it will affect REv sales AT ALL.

That really makes little sense. SNES games would look just as good on an SDTV. The HDTV would probably have better clarity, but the colours wouldn't be as good.

[Smash_Brother]

Unless those games were designed to run on the HD, then you wouldn't have seen a difference. That's the big problem: HDTV content needs its own set of rules and guidelines, making it an exception to AV and not the rule.

The SDTVs would have benefitted it just as much, and the Rev will support those.

[BigJim]

I was letting the issue drop with my previous post in this thread because nobody's mind is going to be changed, but alrighty then.

One in Four Households Expect to Have HDTV Within 2006


"I'm not convinced that the feature and forcing your developers to support it will be worth it at all."

I disagree with Sony's and MS's approach of forcing it just as much as I disagree with Nintendo for omitting it. I've always called for making it an option. No forcing anything.


"Nintendo is aiming for the audience on a budget, and that's a sound concept because it's safer to assume people do NOT have money than assuming they do"

I still believe people will buy what they're willing to pay for. I still believe 360's and PS3's will sell in droves when supply is available. The budget audience is ideal in theory but only does so much for them, as their market shows.

There's no relation to this topic and HD players/PVRs (except in Sony's case since they're the only ones with an HD player). The article does not mention tuners alone, just PVRs with tuners. You technically don't even need an HD tuner to play HD games.

The costs and barriers to entry for HDTV can keep being brought up but it still doesn't change the fact that it's being adopted whether any of us are personally adopting it or not.


"And Jim, I really don't see why you keep bringing up Nintendo's Wi-Fi connection and comparing it to HD. Wireless routers are extremely cheap these days; you can get good ones for only $30-$40 CDN. Can't say the same about HDTVs.."

How much manufacturing cost do you think it adds to bump graphics an extra, say 256MB, and support 720 resolution? If you're under the belief that it costs hundreds of dollars, then of course a $30 Wi-Fi router makes worlds more sense.

I'm looking at a list of graphics cards. ATI x1000 series parts that can push pretty respectable frames per second on some respectable games. And they have *retail* prices for around $100 USD give or take. Manufacturing is a fraction of that. They're not bleeding edge GPUs like what PS3 and 360 have, but certainly respectable and resolution capable, if games were given such an option. And again, if any game is just so sensitive that framerates are weak, then there's always the SD option.

So, comparing the retail cost you'll pay for a typical wi-fi router vs. the at-cost or less you'd pay for the better GPU/memory, fairly close one.

Of course, if Nintendo came out from the start and declared their system would be $250 USD and supported HD, I highly doubt most people would complain. The love would continue just the same... because people will pay for what they want to buy.
           

[KDR_11k]

How much manufacturing cost do you think it adds to bump graphics an extra, say 256MB, and support 720 resolution?

The Rev supposedly uses SRAM, that's more expensive than DRAM (because it uses 8 transistors per bit instead of one) but it also delivers better performance. 256MB of that would be VERY pricey (100+$) so they'd have to add DRAM and that'd start the headaches of what can be kept in what RAM and end up being a large disc cache. Allowing higher resolution output shouldn't cost much but should remain optional for developers. I think Nintendo did make a bad decision in not even allowing it (though maybe they will allow it but not use it much). After all I made a 2MB SVGA card output 1600x1200 back in the 486 days so there's almost no price attached to higher resolution.