Author Topic: Why is the console so small?  (Read 42239 times)

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Offline couchmonkey

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2006, 10:55:05 AM »
Maybe they made it so small so reverse vampires could carry it home before the sun goes down.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2006, 11:01:23 AM »
"eh, speak for yourself. Small and quiet is in these days. Bulky and loud is out."

Would you sacrifice performance that the competition is offering to have something small and quiet?  What good is having a small quiet console if the games are compromised to reach this?  Yeah it's popular but I think the hardware performance is more important.  If the Rev always gets the worst version of third party games are you going to say "but it's quiet so it's worth it"?  If a PS3 game is incapable of being ported to the Rev because the hardware can't handle it are you going to say "but it's small so it's worth it"?  I imagine not.

"So......you want Nintendo to ease up on making great games? The swimming portion represents making great games, right?"

No the swimming portion is the "making a profit every quarter no matter how it affects the longterm" part of Nintendo.  I'll admit that wasn't a very good analogy.  A better way to put it is that Nintendo has a goal that they try to reach every couple of months.  They consistently reach this goal.  But they have a chronic problem that in the future will make it impossible to reach this goal and may be permanent.  So they either have to stop and fix the problem even if it means missing their routine goal a few times in order to continue to achieve their goal for the longterm or continue reaching their goal only to eventually find they can't reach it anymore because they never fixed the problem.

The shrinking market share is a threat to Nintendo's profit.  Therefore they should address it, even if it means they take a temporary loss.

Offline zakkiel

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2006, 12:38:06 PM »
Quote

This generation, graphics have reached a plateu... and I think to the consumer, "next-gen graphics" is a bullet point that all three consoles will have, no comparison necessary.
I think that's nonsense. Initially, to be sure, the Rev games won't look much different than the competition. It's built on hardware that's already been optimized, as it were, where as the other two are completely new territory for programmers. In six years, though, it will still be basically where it is when it launches, judging by the rumored hardware. If you look at where games have come since five years ago, that's not a fun thought. And for those who don't see any graphical difference between this generation and the last, I'd like some of what you're smoking.

Now, of course there's much more to gaming than graphics, and I for one find it almost pathetic that graphics are almost all the PS3 and 360 plan to improve. I'm damn excited about the freehand. And it's unlikely to hurt sales-wise. But gaming is a visual medium, and given the choice between Oblivion and Morrowind graphics, I have no difficulty deciding which is more likely to suck me in.

So for me, personally, small is not a winning feature.
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Offline RiskyChris

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2006, 01:03:59 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"eh, speak for yourself. Small and quiet is in these days. Bulky and loud is out."

Would you sacrifice performance that the competition is offering to have something small and quiet?  What good is having a small quiet console if the games are compromised to reach this?  Yeah it's popular but I think the hardware performance is more important.  If the Rev always gets the worst version of third party games are you going to say "but it's quiet so it's worth it"?  If a PS3 game is incapable of being ported to the Rev because the hardware can't handle it are you going to say "but it's small so it's worth it"?  I imagine not.

"So......you want Nintendo to ease up on making great games? The swimming portion represents making great games, right?"

No the swimming portion is the "making a profit every quarter no matter how it affects the longterm" part of Nintendo.  I'll admit that wasn't a very good analogy.  A better way to put it is that Nintendo has a goal that they try to reach every couple of months.  They consistently reach this goal.  But they have a chronic problem that in the future will make it impossible to reach this goal and may be permanent.  So they either have to stop and fix the problem even if it means missing their routine goal a few times in order to continue to achieve their goal for the longterm or continue reaching their goal only to eventually find they can't reach it anymore because they never fixed the problem.

The shrinking market share is a threat to Nintendo's profit.  Therefore they should address it, even if it means they take a temporary loss.


You're obviously not in Nintendo's target demographic.  You are the one who is in a bubble, not Nintendo.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2006, 01:14:07 PM »
"You're obviously not in Nintendo's target demographic. You are the one who is in a bubble, not Nintendo."

But I've been a longtime supporter of Nintendo and a loyal customer.  So are you saying Nintendo is abandoning their existing fans?  Because that issue has been brought up a lot since the Rev remote was shown and all this "non-gamer" talk was brought up.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2006, 01:14:24 PM »
HD is compromised when you sit too far away or the TV is too small.  I wouldn't call it a game feature, nor call it "greater performace" that is sacrificed.

When I get around to buying an HD "display device," it's going to be a PROJECTOR.
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Offline BigJim

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2006, 01:16:35 PM »
Why did they go small? I dunno, but my guess is simply a style choice more than anything else. They could make it standard component sized as well, but at least this helps it stand out a bit more. By decidedly limiting physical inputs and outputs and going with cheaper/less powerful components (less intense cooling necessary), making it small is an easy choice.

"Bulky and loud is out."

We'll see what the market says. I'm thinking it's not so important as long as they get to play the games they want to.

As for HD again, the word choice is interesting. People say supporting HD is "pandering" because they're a minority? That's not fair or consistent. Resetting a controller to something nobody knew they wanted until they were told they did, skipping DVD playback that "wasn't wanted" last gen but for some reason it is wanted now  (when it's even less important), and forced wireless connections... these things are all forms of pandering. If 25% of households have HDTV by the end of the year as estimated when Rev launches, even fewer will have wireless networks.

Nintendo panders when it's cheap and/or convenient for them. One of the most cash-rich companies in the world is tighter than a cheap Uncle. Pandering (or not pandering) is not an issue. It's their purse strings. Even today's low-range graphic cards with a full 256 MB of RAM and minimal cooling can handle 720p widescreen. Their only reasoning is their desire not to absorb (or charge us) an extra whopping $30 or less in manufacturing expenses, or blow up their art department's budget (to hell with those that might want to make HD games.)
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Offline wandering

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2006, 01:17:50 PM »
Quote

Would you sacrifice performance that the competition is offering to have something small and quiet? What good is having a small quiet console if the games are compromised to reach this?

Well, I do own apple products, so maybe I'm not the best person to ask.....

Quote

"You're obviously not in Nintendo's target demographic. You are the one who is in a bubble, not Nintendo."

But I've been a longtime supporter of Nintendo and a loyal customer. So are you saying Nintendo is abandoning their existing fans?

No. Just you
 
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Offline RiskyChris

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2006, 01:29:10 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"You're obviously not in Nintendo's target demographic. You are the one who is in a bubble, not Nintendo."

But I've been a longtime supporter of Nintendo and a loyal customer.  So are you saying Nintendo is abandoning their existing fans?  Because that issue has been brought up a lot since the Rev remote was shown and all this "non-gamer" talk was brought up.


I'm a deperately loyal follower of Nintendo, and I fully support every decision Nintendo has been making in the past year and a half (even delaying TP again -_-).  Having HD support is ridiculous, because I can hardly name a handful of people I know who can make use of such features.  Nintendo didn't say it was abandoning its fans, just that it was broadening its scope of gamers.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2006, 02:00:17 PM »
I think some of you are getting hung up on the HD stuff.  I use HD merely as an example of a compromise Nintendo is making with their console.  It's not necessarily a "make or break" issue, it's just a negative bullet point for the Rev and an example of Nintendo being shortsighted.  I'd say the weaker hardware is a much bigger issue and the controller is easily the biggest.

My biggest beef with no HD is that it's Nintendo's typical "we'll tell you what options you don't need" routine and I was hoping that maybe they would learn that stupid attitude is exactly why they're in last place.

"Nintendo didn't say it was abandoning its fans, just that it was broadening its scope of gamers."

Of course Nintendo has never said it.  But that doesn't mean it won't happen.  If it did happen I don't think Nintendo would even realize they were doing it.  I'm sure they THINK that they can just broaden their scope.  But they probably don't realize that an existing fan might not be interested in games aimed at non-gamers.  I imagine when Nintendo stuck with cartridges on the N64 they thought that third parties would gladly deal with it and that it wouldn't be an issue.

Offline MaryJane

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2006, 02:44:20 PM »
Maybe Nintendo is like one of those people who always say, hey this is popular so I'm not going to do it. I hate those kind of people and I don't think Nintendo is like that. Instead I believe to be individualists, which isn't the same thing exactly, they do what they think is right, popular or not. HD, we don't need it, but everyone else has it, doesn't mean we need it everyone else is losing lots and lots of money, we make tons. What kind of controller, let's improve on current models, no let's revolutionize a slowly shrinking industry in the hopes that we'll bring in new people, it could blow up in our faces and we might lose Ian Sane as a customer, risk is part of business and Ian is only one person. (i don't mean to single anyone out, just using ur name as a representative of your complaints which i'm sure others share, but it's like how only a miniscule part of the few here who feel that way, a miniscule percentage of nintendo's target demographic would also be turned off by their decision making)

Quote

My biggest beef with no HD is that it's Nintendo's typical "we'll tell you what options you don't need" routine and I was hoping that maybe they would learn that stupid attitude is exactly why they're in last place.


I see no HD as saying you don't need it so we won't give it. I think that's much better, than you don't need it but we're shoving it down your throat anyway, and taking an extra $30 out of your pocket! (insert evil laugh) Oh and they're 2nd in the world for sales, 1st in profit.

I love everything about the Rev which is why e3 kind of scares me. How much more painful will it be to wait for this amazing machine when I know more about it?  
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Offline antman100

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2006, 02:58:28 PM »
Small is all well and good.
I don't care.

I have a HD TV.
I'm really bummed that the Revo will not support it fully.

Look..I'm all for Nintendo making a profit, but who says they have to make a ton of profit?  If Nintendo made as much money on the GC as everybody here said they did, maybe they could have scaled it back a bit.  Nintendo will likely have at least $100 to play with and still be less than any competitor.  A little more power, HD support?  Yeah, I probably would have paid $250 for that, even if it was as big as a XBox.  Also, it is likely that this year, new HD TV sales will greatly outnumber SD TV sales, for what that's worth.

Given the specs that we know, or we think we know, I don't see myself paying more than $150 for it.  If Nintendo is right and Revos sell faster than hotcakes, or rubbers (name that obscure reference), I'll be happy for them.  Is a small form factor going to help them sell?  We'll see.

Offline ThePerm

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2006, 03:48:37 PM »
ps3 and  xbox  360 are overpowered,  they  are  breaking moores law. All  Revolution  does is  follow it.  N64 was $200, Dreamcast was $200(saturn  was $300), Gamecube  was $200. Revoilution  will cost $200 and will be as powerful as something that costs $200, which if you ask me is plenty good. Xbox 360 and Ps3 are $700-$900 machines.

in other words Sony and MS are cheating, Nintendo is  a big company,  but doesnt have the assets of the other company. There is a reason they are cheap. They have to be.
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Offline TMW

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2006, 04:20:22 PM »
No no...Nintendo can make those kinds of machines, but they know a $600 console won't sell, and they don't want to take a loss when they can make a comparable machine with NEW TECHNOLOGY and have it be at the nice, comfortable $200 price point.
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Offline IceCold

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2006, 05:05:29 PM »
A better way to put it is that Nintendo has a goal that they try to reach every couple of months. They consistently reach this goal. But they have a chronic problem that in the future will make it impossible to reach this goal and may be permanent. So they either have to stop and fix the problem even if it means missing their routine goal a few times in order to continue to achieve their goal for the longterm or continue reaching their goal only to eventually find they can't reach it anymore because they never fixed the problem.

The shrinking market share is a threat to Nintendo's profit. Therefore they should address it, even if it means they take a temporary loss.


Nintendo IS trying to address this. As MaryJane and others in the past have pointed out, the Revolution is an enormous risk. Don't you realise? They're putting everything on the line this time; it has to succeed. Now you may not like the direction they're headed, but please don't say that they're not trying to fix their problem.

As for HD again, the word choice is interesting. People say supporting HD is "pandering" because they're a minority? That's not fair or consistent.

I'll assume you didn't hear this piece of information.
Quote

King-Kong, developed by Ubisoft, was one of the hot titles that populated XBox 360's launch game list. But now, officials at Ubisoft say gamers should avoid the XBox version.

Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot said that King-Kong on the X360 can appear too dark on standard TVs, making the game "unplayable." "I'm a bit disappointed that we didn't see it when we were developing the game," Guillemot said.
...
The problem comes out of the fact that the team who developed the game didn't test it on ordinary TV sets but only on high definition TV.
Now that's just ridiculous
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2006, 06:13:38 PM »
I am in a rut with Nintendo and I tend to see Ian’s points more easily than a lot of people here, yet some how nobody seams to care what I think, whatever here it is from my point of view and this is from a 23 year old who ahs been a loyal Nintendo fan since NES days (nevermind my Sega love either I have owned EVREY SINGLE Nintendo console ever made so I qualify as loyal, and I bought EVERYONE brand spankin new form a  store so I have given Ninty a fair share of money to boot.)

Here is what I see as good points for the revolution being so small, I will also counter with what I see as wrong with it after but hear me out.



Nintendo’s primary goal right now, and rightfully so, is to reclaim their homeland. They have achieved exceptional success in the handheld market, BUT thats nothing new. It was to be expected.

Nintendo knows that a small quiet system with a brand new way to play video games is a great way to appeal to Japanese gamers. Now thats fine and all and they should focus everything they have on winning Japan considering they are losing their territory to a company that makes TVs and tape decks, and has no real heart for video games.

There’s a couple other things I see with the rev that really will attract a lot of Japanese gamers and thats 1st the virtual console, which will bring back all the great Nintendo games from he past that have gotten ignored or forgotten in recent years.

Also its worth noting that the original Famicom was a lot smaller than the US NES, which was originally a bulky flashy looking pc look alike.

Now its possible that Nintendo has chosen to focus on the Japanese market the most because its their home market, and at the same time its still very possible that, like Famicom to NES , they may redesign the Revolution to more appeal to US gamers. Now it would be more expensive to do so and at the same time it would cause problems with a world wide launch, but its possible non the less.


The problem with making the system so small is it makes it look underpowered to some people, but also remember that technology has always gotten smaller as it progresses and people are so used to smaller devices being more advanced than the larger ones its possible that the public perception will be the rev is the more powerful technologically, maybe not visually per say but it will be the most advanced out of the three considering the VC and Revmote. When a sale person describes the unique features of the rev people will know its from the "future" and will gladly take a chance on this brand new technology as long as it promises to provide new experiences and, with backwards compatibility and VC, the are providing familiarity.


If you take ALL of these together it seams to me that its possible that Nintendo is positioning themselves  as

the most technological, because people will ask, what makes PS3 better than Revolution? a sale person will have to say well Rev can play GC games and uses this exciting new technology that is the wave of the future, and it also plays DVDs and uses a DVD style remote, and the sales person describes what the emote can do, WOW, the will say (and I GARUNTEE average joe consumer WILL SAY WOW or some other expression of being impressed)
Then when pitching the PS3 all they an say is it will display games in High Definition, lay Blu Ray disks (which wont even be available in mass market when ps3 arrives) and it will have better graphics. Then people will respond, well will it work on a normal tv or do I have to have HD, they will assume that it wont look as good or wont work at all and right there people will pass it up.



You know when Gc came out every time I heard it pitched I wanted to cringe, there was just no way to make it sound better than the competition, I means seriously it didn’t play dvds, it wasn’t online, it was childish looking, and it just was hard to sell.

BUT every time I pitch the system to someone, whether it be the controller or the Virtual Console, I always get a positive response and most people seam to think it sounds like the next big technology.


I haven’t heard anyone bash it yet like they used to with GC, and the k!ddey argument wont hold p when it launches with fighting games and 1st person shooters that blow Halo away.


Every day I analyze it differently, and GC and N64 taught me to be overly critical, and yet I can’t seem to find any argument that would prevent someone from buying a Revolution, and I heard all the excuses back when ps2 came out and MOST people just were sold on its DVD player or it would play Ps1 games. So anyway you slice it I think the Revolution will be a phenomenal success, I just have a gut feeling(which my instincts all along were against Gc despite how much loved it I just always new it would fail)

Other than that I can’t say why else I expect, genuinely expect the rev to be the number one system for the next few years, but I will wager on it I am that confident in their strategy and everything I have heard so far.  







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Offline Talon

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2006, 06:24:55 PM »
Sorry animecyberrat but that post was way too long to read with such bad spelling.

In america where bigger is better you will probably find that peoples perceptions of the Rev will be that it is underpowered and they are right.  Nintendo has stated that they arent looking to have the biggest bad ass console on the market.

The whole idea of them having a smaller console is to market it at people who generally dont play games.

Its small, its sleak, its quiet.

The aesthetics of the console is irrelevant, has no bearing on gameplay and is used for marketability.  Look what happened with the gamecube people thought it was a Fisher Price toy but when you were playing a gamecube game did you really pay any attention to what it looked like?

Personally I couldnt give a rats arse about what the Rev looks like as long as the games are awesome on it.
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2006, 06:32:31 PM »
i correcte the spelling you @$$, and yo didnt read ANYTHING judeging by your reply.  
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2006, 06:39:02 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Talon
Sorry animecyberrat but that post was way too long to read with such bad spelling.

>>>In america where bigger is better you will probably find that peoples perceptions of the Rev will be that it is underpowered and they are right.  Nintendo has stated that they arent looking to have the biggest bad ass console on the market.<<<


BS, really if this was so true why is Ipod out selling Walkman or PSP? Bigger is better has NEVER applied to elecronics especaily in America. Look at Cell phones, PDAs, GBA vs SP, GB Micro, Pocket Pcs,Laptops, dvds vs Laser disk, etc etc. come one your argument fails only when its about cars or rvs or things liek that do peopel want the bigger and better, with electronics everyone knwos smaller is better, why, well saves space, portability, you can fit more ina  smaller disk 9yeah never figured that oe out but people accept it as truth.





>>
The aesthetics of the console is irrelevant, has no bearing on gameplay and is used for marketability.  Look what happened with the gamecube people thought it was a Fisher Price toy but when you were playing a gamecube game did you really pay any attention to what it looked like?<<<



agian you didnt read my post I ALSO used that same argument, so uh? whats your point you just liek to argue?




Average Jo Shmoe doesnt care about the games, whydid thet get PS2s, cuz yo can put it in the family room and watch mvoies AND play tetris, puzzle bobble, Madden football, etc. and teh kdis could play thier GTa, and FF, and Jak and Dexters.


With Revolution now peopel can put THAT in the family room cuz its someting mom and dad will be abel to enjoy, plus it plays movies, and it lets yo play yor old favorites like DUCK HUNT, a massive hit with the people who 'out grew' video games.

next time read my post before arguing you basicaly agreed with me but tried to sound like we disagreed.
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2006, 07:10:30 PM »
Hmm. I like the sales pitch stuff, Rat. You've got a point. The GC really did have little to differentiate itself from the competition hardware wise.

Offline IceCold

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2006, 07:12:31 PM »
I definitely agree with rat that this is geared towards Japanese consumers, but it doesn't do any harm here. And also with the fact that the Revolution will have so many unique and better features to set it apart from the competition that people will take notice. Now, it's all up to the games.. especially the multiplatform ones. If they are better on the Rev because of the control system, that will help A LOT.
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Offline Chris1

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2006, 07:59:29 PM »
Well, it seems power isnt much of an issue according to ign article http://revolution.ign.com/articles/690/690730p1.html

Offline BigJim

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2006, 09:10:49 PM »
"I see no HD as saying you don't need it so we won't give it. I think that's much better, than you don't need it but we're shoving it down your throat anyway, and taking an extra $30 out of your pocket! (insert evil laugh)"

That attitude wouldn't help. They'd still be dictating what we need, without giving options. $30 more for more forward-thinking insurance is a bargain IMHO, if they insisted on not taking the financial hit themselves.


"in other words Sony and MS are cheating, Nintendo is a big company, but doesnt have the assets of the other company. There is a reason they are cheap. They have to be."

Like I said, they're one of the most cash-rich companies in the world. They don't need to take a $100 hit on a console or sell it for $400, but they don't need to break even immediately out of the gate either. At the end of the day they'll still be one of the most cash-rich companies. They treat their war chest literally like it's "In case of WW3" holdings while they continually get marginalized. If the pattern continues, they'll be forced to use it out of default or subsidize it with their portable market (which people are so fast to point out that Sony and MS do-- subsidize). How embarrassing would that be to them, rather than being proactively competitive? They'd love people to believe less is more (especially when THEY are the ones offering less). But we'll see what happens. HD isn't make or break, but they're still penny pinchers even when they don't have to be.


"but they know a $600 console won't sell, and they don't want to take a loss when they can make a comparable machine with NEW TECHNOLOGY and have it be at the nice, comfortable $200 price point."

A system doesn't need to be $600. Sure, throw in all the new technology, but adding tens of dollars to the cost to support a higher output resolution is not going to blow anybody's bank. The PlayStations proved that people are willing to pay for what they want to buy. Being so gal-darn cheap that people are just compelled to buy it didn't help the GameCube. Didn't help the DS (although it does sell well) and it's not likely going to help the Rev either anymore than it did any other products.

"I'll assume you didn't hear this piece of information. Now that's just ridiculous"

I did. And I don't understand the importance. So Ubisoft were morons not to fully test their product. What does that have to do with what I said?      
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Offline nemo_83

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RE:Why is the console so small?
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2006, 09:40:22 PM »
Basically there are only three possibilities.  Nintendo is betting the whole farm on the controller, they are dumb enough to think "smallness" is more of a selling factor to American gamers than power, or they really do have another BIG secret.  

The Revolution is ridiculously small; it's suspiciously small.  
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Offline Artimus

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RE: Why is the console so small?
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2006, 02:49:46 AM »
I don't think they're betting on smallness in America at all. That's a very Japanese advantage. But they definitely count on the overall appearance to be a positive factor.