Topic: New Release Date for The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

[Hostile Creation]

Crapper crap crappy.  I desperately wanted to play this during the summer.  Now I'm going to have to balance it with class and schoolwork and all that other college crap.  Ugh, I just don't like this.
Is Kirby GC releasing during the summer?  Maybe I'll have something to play.  Ah well, there will be plenty for DS, and I've still hardly even started on Fire Emblem.
But still, TP during the summer would've kicked ass.

[Ian Sane]

"Seriously, if someone doesn't have a game for something, they play something else (or actually go do something productive)...The DS is the best choice of every other system, so I CAN use the 'excuse,' thank you very much..."

I'm talking about how this affects Nintendo from a business standpoint.  It is a fact that Nintendo's portable success has no effect on their consoles.  So Nintendo can't assume a Cube owner owns a DS or even wants one.  They can't assume this because the GBA release schedule had no effect on the Cube.  It's really no different then suggesting someone will find something to do on their PS2 or Xbox.  It's in Nintendo's best interests that Cube owners be playing games on their Cube and are satisified with their Cube.

[KDR_11k]

Back to TP, they only have 1.5 GB to work with.

This is Nintendo we're talking about, they've probably filled up about half of that by now. They're not very wasteful with space.

Ian: I see scenario 1 more as "Everyone hears about that awesome new game. The GC owners grab it immediately but most others think that since the Rev is just around the corner it's better to wait for that. By the time the Rev actually arrives they have already forgotten that there was that Zelda game they wanted to play and stores have reduced stock of that game because it's supposedly past its primary sales window".

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
1. Release TP in April and get Nintendo back in the minds of gamers.  Zelda ends up on the covers of all the game magazines and on the front page of all the game sites.  Great review scores spring up.  Anyone who has had their Cube gathering dust is suddenly paying attention to Nintendo again because FINALLY another amazing must-play game has shown up.  Stores are pushing pre-orders.  Nintendo's got some buzz going again.  This is perfect timing for E3 which occurs next month.  People have a reason to pay attention to Nintendo again and, for a little while at least, are feeling good about them.  So they're going to pay more attention to E3 which hopefully blows them all away and builds up interest in the Rev.

...And come Nov, everyone has already forgotten TP existed, making any influence it might have had on the Rev sales absolutely irrelevant.

Seriously, the attention span of the gaming world can only be measured in nanoseconds. If TP launched in April, that's 7 months until Nov. and the launch of the Rev.

Simple question: do you remember the games you thought might be fun to play 7 months ago? Of course not: NO ONE does.

Also, since the current xbox and PS2 offerings suck a whole pile of ass, yes, it's safe to look to the DS as the only gaming platform offering entertainment. Look at the charts: game sales are down across the board EXCEPT for the DS. Can you play a DS game and a GC game at the same time? If you buy one, is the other free? Answer those questions and you'll see why the DS is a perfect alternative. Or, FFS, people could figure out another way to spend their time and money.

I find it amusing that people are getting their panties in a knot over the delay: Sony used this technique in the past rather effectively with the PS2 boasting backwards compatibility with PS1 games and look where the PS2 is now. Nintendo is doing this because it's the best marketing decision they can make for pushing their new console when it launches. Don't whine about the GC sucking so badly and having no games out for it and in the same sentence condemn the decision to push the Rev as hard as possible to assure it doesn't share the same fate.

If they had launched Majora's Mask with the Gamecube (assuming it had backwards compatibility), maybe the remainder of the GC's lifespan wouldn't have been as bad as it was. It'll be fine. You'll play Zelda when it launches and, like many thousands of others, I will buy a Rev to play it on in addition to whatever Rev launch titles look good.

[Michael8983]

A few months can make a difference. The REV most likely won't be launched until around Thanksgiving. If Nintendo could get TP out by the end of September or even October it could still make an impact. Especially if it doesn't have the PS3 to contend with either.
I can't see Nintendo simply adding REV functions to existing gameplay. It just wouldn't feel right. They'll want to save that for a Zelda title built with the REV controller in mind. It's possible Nintendo could create a few mini-games only playable on the REV but if they really wanted to snag people into buying REVs they should create a whole mini-quest unlockable when you beat the main game that's actually designed around and only playable with the REV's controller. Even if it only consisted of a single dungeon and rematch with the game's villain, it would still be enough. Basically just a little preview of what the true Rev Zelda will be. With virtual sword fights, archery, spell casting, and puzzle solving.

 

[Ian Sane]

"Simple question: do you remember the games you thought might be fun to play 7 months ago? Of course not: NO ONE does."

On the Cube remembering seven months ago is easy.  Let's see.  Seven months ago on the Cube I was playing NOTHING.

My idea is not to get people to play Zelda or hear about Zelda and then seven months later check out the Rev.  My idea is that it creates more interest in Nintendo right before E3 thus attracting more attention to Nintendo's E3 presentation which if it's good will build hype for the Rev.  A large part of my idea is existing Cube owners staying with Nintendo, something I don't think is going to be very common without some sort of "peace offering" from Nintendo to make up for a good solid year of nothing.  You can say people don't remember seven months ago but they're sure to remember seven months ago better than over a year and a half ago.  For most RE4 is their last memory of the Cube and it's already been over a year since it came out.

I'm not buying a Rev at launch baring some miracle.  And that's because I don't trust Nintendo anymore.  My optimism has been crushed by the last year or so.  A Rev at launch just isn't a safe purchase because I have the feeling Nintendo doesn't really care about my satisfaction in their console providing I give them money.  I can't be the only person who feels this way.  Releasing Twilight Princess sooner than later would be a good PR move with their fans.  It shows they realize we've had it pretty sucky lately and that they're going to make up for it.  To me it seems like Nintendo does not give a sh!t that I've been pretty damn bored with my Cube for a while.  Well, f*ck it, why should I even consider buying their next console if they're going to have that attitude?  How dare they delay a game I've waited years for to add features I can only access with the purchase of a new console.  When Twilight Princess debuted it was a tough time to be a Cube owner and it gave us this hope.  Well in the end that was all just a tease.  That's a HORRIBLE way to treat your fanbase.  I think it's very damaging for Nintendo to delay this game for any Rev related reason.  Hell in reality this has been a "tease" since that Spaceworld 2000 footage.

My fandom in Nintendo has been severely damaged by their repeated inability to deliver on their promises.  If they want us to believe that the Rev isn't going to be another "flop" they should prove that they CAN deliver on a promise.  Otherwise anyone looking for a reason to "wait-and-see" with the Rev has a big example of Nintendo not keeping a promise right from the get go.

[Bloodworth]

Well this makes things even more curious:

Quote
Speaking of GameCube, if you play a GameCube game on the new Revolution console, will you be able to use the Revolution controller or will you have to use the older style of controller?

(Reggie) Well, all of the GameCube games will be compatible only with GameCube accessories, so whether it’s a WaveBird or whether it’s a wired controller, you’ll only be able to play those titles with those accessories. Essentially what we’re saying is that Revolution titles are the only ones that will leverage the new controller.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/02/20/the-engadget-interview-reggie-fils-aime-executive-vice-preside/

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
My fandom in Nintendo has been severely damaged by their repeated inability to deliver on their promises.  If they want us to believe that the Rev isn't going to be another "flop" they should prove that they CAN deliver on a promise.  Otherwise anyone looking for a reason to "wait-and-see" with the Rev has a big example of Nintendo not keeping a promise right from the get go.

You're spoiled by Nintendo because they seldom do things like this.

Seriously, it takes more than 10 fingers to count the number of times Sony has almost literally sodomized their own user base and yet they're somehow in the lead.

I agree on some counts, though: I can't understand how a Playstation owner could tolerate knowing that Sony was releasing better versions of the console throughout its lifespan for the same amount of money. At least with the GBA -> GBA SP issue, the original dropped in price and the SP was more expensive. With Sony, no lubricant: "We're gonna release a PS2 with 480P support. If you want that feature, you're going to have to buy another one."

The cube support sucked. It sucked because 1) they didn't bring the titles for a good launch, 2) didn't have the support of third parties and 3) didn't back up the system with solid titles throughout its life span.

But they're trying to fix this with the Rev:

1. TP is being brought out with additional Rev features to make the launch a better event. The launch titles for the Rev will be good, but they'll never be as good as a game which has been in development for a while now and is a guaranteed killer app. I don't care what anyone says: TP is a killer app and all the people who only buy Nintendo platforms for Zelda will more than likely buy a Rev than a GC.

2. Nintendo is trolling HARD for 3rd party support, even attracting companies like Midway and Tecmo back to them, companies which had previously abandoned them.

3. As for the longevity of the console, if 1 and 2 go well for them, then 3 handles itself: it's a solid launch and 3rd party support which will earn the Rev a fruitful lifespan full of memorable titles and solid killer apps.

I know you're pissed at Nintendo, but Nintendo is taking the necessary steps to ensure that what happened with the cube does NOT happen again, and if that means moving key titles to a time where they'll be more influential, so be it.

It's not about pleasing the fanbase anymore. It's about survival and gaining back some of the marketshare which the PS2 and xbox have cost them. If they have to piss me off now so that the Rev can be a solid console in the future with great 3rd party support and a good library of games to choose from, I'm not going to pitch a fit over it and neither should you.

[Ian Sane]

Sounds like Reggie is maybe getting something mixed up.  If what he's saying is true then backwards compatibility requires Cube controllers and I really doubt that.

[Ian Sane]

"If they have to piss me off now so that the Rev can be a solid console in the future with great 3rd party support and a good library of games to choose from, I'm not going to pitch a fit over it and neither should you."

I don't think pissing me off now is going to give the Rev a solid future.  I think quite the opposite.  I think they risk losing too many existing Cube owners.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I don't think pissing me off now is going to give the Rev a solid future.  I think quite the opposite.  I think they risk losing too many existing Cube owners.

How much do you honestly think they have to lose?

Cube owners are already pissed off and game-starved right now. Pushing TP back another 7 months isn't going to change the fact that they would have still been pissed off and game-starved.

It WILL, however, give a lot of people a reason to purchase the Rev which is, again, an attempt to avoid repeating the GC's history with the Rev.

[King of Twitch]

Even the N64 had Paper Mario and Conker at this point in its life. Nobody said "Go play your Game Boy Color" back then. They better have a spectacular launch lineup in development, even though it looks like Mario will be late again.

[couchmonkey]

Bill, you can tell me to play my DS 'til you're blue in the face, but it's NOT the same thing.  I don't care how many great games the DS has, hunching over a portable system is not like kicking back on my couch and playing games on TV.  Yes, I'll be filling in a lot of time between now and Rev launch with my DS.  I'll also be filling in a lot of time with my old GC, N64, Super NES and NES games, since there are plenty I have yet to finish.  But if I owned a PS2, I'd be filling in time with Kingdom Hearts II, Final Fantasy XII, and the latest Shadow Hearts.  That sounds a lot more exciting to me, and with an inevitable Rev drought coming up in Q1 2007, I wonder if maybe I should find a PS2 somewhere.  I'm not dirt-poor like I was during the last two Nintendo launches.

[Pryopizm]

Word.  I got KHII preordered.  Looking forward to that game.  But yeah, handhelds are great, but I need console love.  That's what my big chair and my TV are for.  I never use it to actually watch TV.  

[IceCold]

Quote
Originally posted by: DeadlyD
IceCold your making no sense, psp has alot of decent games and still it doesnt have a huge system to game ratio with sales
and with the game being pushed back to rev, who says it will only be gamecube graphics? it could feature upgrades with the extra  ram much like n64 games did, but on the scale were it still works on either
the same 30mins of video has been floating around for a year now, with a few random pics popping up here and there...alot has happened since then i bet

Eh? You can't even compare the PSP to the Revolution. Sony, with the PSP, took nearly all the focus off gaming. They added all this multimedia and UMD stuff, effectively loading the system up with things that have nothing to do with games. Common sense indicates that if this happens, the person who buys the PSP will be distracted from games as well. They will use the other stuff, and buy less games. And THAT is the reason why the PSP has such a lousy tie-in ratio. And THAT is why Nintendo always tries to keep the focus on videogames (no DVD etc). I was even surprised that they are offering an Internet browser and TV tuner.

And you just said it yourself, the PSP had decent games. At launch, it may have seemed like a good lineup, but they were mainly s/port games. And even after the launch, the PSP hasn't really had many terrific games at all. Don't even try to compare the DS lineup to that of the PSP.

Finally, I was just saying that Nintendo systems at launch usually have a good tie-in ratio. Early adopters of Nintendo systems usually buy enough games, and therefore Zelda won't really make a difference, while still selling hardware.

And sure, Nintendo could add upgrades in graphics and throw in a few extra things here and there that the Rev can handle but the GCN can't. But that's the whole point. I don't want a Zelda which began as a GameCube game, but now they are just adding features to make it a Rev game. I want a Zelda that has, from the ground up, been developed with the Revolution's control and specifications in mind, so that it will push the hardware and controls as much as possible. Polished, complete and brilliant.

[Ian Sane]

"It WILL, however, give a lot of people a reason to purchase the Rev which is, again, an attempt to avoid repeating the GC's history with the Rev."

That wouldn't work for anyone who owns a Cube already though.  I guess there's two things to think of here.  

1. Should Nintendo risk losing a chunk of their existing fanbase in hope to attract more newcombers to the Rev with Zelda?

or

2. Should Nintendo risk having one less high profile release for the Rev launch and rely on the Rev launch lineup alone to sell Revs?

This is tricky.  I think number one is more important but they both have pros and cons.  What if Nintendo did both?  They release Zelda in the next little while for the Cube to keep the Cube owners happy and loyal and then when the Rev comes out that make Twilight Princess a Player's Choice title and have a new advertising campaign to draw attention to the fact that it's playable on both systems.  The price cut would also save anyone buying the Rev just for Zelda some money so that they might spend some of the money they saved on a new Rev game as well.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I concur.

[mantidor]

Theres also the posibility that the game simply isnt ready yet for the high standards they want to achieve! and now with the more recent comments by Reggie, this seems to be the case.

[IceCold]

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Theres also the posibility that the game simply isnt ready yet for the high standards they want to achieve! and now with the more recent comments by Reggie, this seems to be the case.

Please make this be the reason!

[King of Twitch]

And risk killing sales on a game that's been in development for three years?

[KDR_11k]

On the Cube remembering seven months ago is easy. Let's see. Seven months ago on the Cube I was playing NOTHING.

Point missed: We're talking about games on a platform you don't own. What seven month old (PS2/XBox, whichever you don't own) games would you buy if you picked up a new console today?

A Rev at launch just isn't a safe purchase because I have the feeling Nintendo doesn't really care about my satisfaction in their console providing I give them money.

Welcome to capitalism. Do you think Sony or MS care? Do you think any big corporation cares how you feel as long as you keep buying?

[couchmonkey]

...but Ian wants them to care!  So do I, but I know that's not realistic.  Anyway, now that I've cooled down a bit, I'll summarize my opinion on this:

If Nintendo needs this time to make the game better, great! In fact I defended the delay last year because I feel Nintendo's games have been dropping off in quality.  The thing is, this is the third generation in a row that Nintendo has left me with barely anything new to play in the year of a new console launch, and it's depressing.  At least I had Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario on the previous consoles, this time the big title to keep me busy was going to be Twighlight Princess, but now it won't come out until the new system is practically ready anyway.  

Yeah, it's not the end of the world, it's just a bad habit of Nintendo's that really makes me itch for a new console.

[Ian Sane]

"Welcome to capitalism. Do you think Sony or MS care? Do you think any big corporation cares how you feel as long as you keep buying?"

I know how capitalism works.  But some companies feel that the best way to make money is to satisfy their customers.  That's how a company really builds a strong customer base.  Otherwise you're just a con artist.  Nintendo however too often takes us for granted and just assumes we'll support them because we're Nintendo.  No corporation really cares about you but it's very beneficial for them to make you think they do.

[wandering]

Oh, those con artists at Nintendo. Taking a huge sales risk by delaying Twilight Princess just to make the game better! And, before that, taking a huge risk in sales by changing the art style of the zelda game they were working on to one they were actually passionate about and felt would create the better game overall. Those dogs!

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I know how capitalism works.  But some companies feel that the best way to make money is to satisfy their customers.  That's how a company really builds a strong customer base.  Otherwise you're just a con artist.  Nintendo however too often takes us for granted and just assumes we'll support them because we're Nintendo.  No corporation really cares about you but it's very beneficial for them to make you think they do.

What's your basis of comparison here?

It's not Sony or MS, I know that for DAMN certain, so which mythical gaming company are you comparing Nintendo with which always makes its deadlines and never disappoints customers, ever?