Topic: Final Fantasy VII-IX for the DS, Think it could happen?

[capamerica]

I've been thinking about this for awhile, Square has released Final Fantasy I, II, IV and soon V & VI for the GBA and they have a updated version of Final Fantasy III coming out for the DS, Whats stopping Square from continuing what their doing and releasing Final Fantasy VII, VIII and IX on the DS?

Now don't get started on the fact that Final Fantasy VII was on 3 discs and Final Fantasy VIII & IX were on 4 discs. First off the DS has 10x better compression tools and works with a smaller screen. The movies could easily be compressed and shrunk down to a much smaller size and textures can be compressed and reduced. The problem that the PSOne (and PS2) had was they sucked for compression so all textures had to be put on discs uncompressed. With good compression a game can easily be reduced in 1/2 (or even more), A good example of this is GTA3, PS2 version clocked in at 4.38GB while the Xbox version was only a small 1.2GB, Amazing what the power of good compression can do.

Now I'm not saying that compression alone could shrink all 2.07GB of Final Fantasy VII on to one DS card which only currently holds 128MB, BUT just like the GBA carts they could be upgraded in the near future. I see no reason why Final Fantasy VII couldn't get compressed down to fit on a 512MB or even a 1GB DS card in the near future.

Heck they were able to get Resident Evil on to a small 128MB DS card and the original Playstation version was close to 600MB.

I don't know about you but I would love to have the whole Final Fantasy series be playable on my Nintendo DS.

[JonLeung]

Instead of I & II together on a single GBA cart and III on the DS and IV, V, and VI on separate GBA carts, I would've preferred I-III on one GBA cart and IV-VI on one DS card.

I like things in trilogies, and these were originally in "trilogies" of sorts by console, meaning they have the proper buttons.  I-III (from the NES/Famicom) don't need more than two face buttons so it fits on the GBA (though there are also two shoulder buttons) and IV-VI (from the Super NES/Super Famicom) don't need more than four face buttons and two shoulder buttons so it fits on the DS.  This also means that all six main 2D FF games could be carried around all at once!

But of course that's only ideal for the consumer, Square probably makes a lot more money doing it the way they actually have it.  Maybe they could rerelease them in the way I would like (if people want a DS-featureless III) afterwards and make more money...  >_>

While I'm throwing out ideas, I think there should be a Revolution compilation of VII-IX that, through DS connectivity, if all nine games are complete (!), unlock something really cool.  That'll prove who the REAL FF fans are.

VII-IX may be possible on the DS.  I personally think FF VII is way overrated, but hey, I'm sure it would sell well if it were rereleased on something as popular as the DS.  

[darknight06]

I need to see Final Fantasy III DS in finished form beginning to end before my final judgement on that.  I remember seeing bg folders on the FFVII discs that were almost 200MB by themselves and that's not including the models or textures.  Interesting thing to note is that someone from the homebrew dev scene is actually working on it.

[Bill Aurion]

Weren't they saved as bitmaps?

(I know for sure that the music was saved as .wav files...Basically everything was done to bloat the sucker up...)

[capamerica]

.Wav and .BMP are pretty much uncompressed files. If Square were to use any other format they could easly cut the size in half.

A 1MB 512x512 .BMP/.TGA file can be cut down to a 300k 512x512 .PNG and thats not even including the fact that they don't even need the graphics to be 512x512 they can cut them down to 128x128 or even 64x64, thats one of the perks of having a small screen

And .Wav files can easly be cut 1/3 by using ACC or MP3 files.

[Smash_Brother]

What is the actual size restriction on the DS carts, anyway?

They seem to be an offshoot of SD technology which seems to find a new ceiling every month (current ceiling is 4GB, I believe).

I'm not sure if they'll do it, but nothing could further cement the DS's lead than the release of all these FF games on it.

And it'd be a ripping slap in the face to the PSP...

[capamerica]

The current DS cards hold 128MB. And your right they are a offshoot of SD cards so they can in theroy be upgraded to the same size as the largest SD card the problem doesn't lay in any kind of size restriction, its price of the cards. We could easly get a 4GB DS card only problem is that the card would cost you $240.

[Smash_Brother]

Yeah, I was thinking the solid state memory cost is far more than anyone would ever pay for the game. $240 is the consumer price, but I doubt they could get it down low enough that someone would buy the game and SE could still make any kind of profit.

Makes me wonder what the actual cost of manufacture for DS carts is and at what point does the size become too big and completely negates any profit from the sale.

[Ian Sane]

I think it's more likely Square Enix would port those games to the PSP.  You can talk about compression all you want but it's still cartridges vs CDs.  Square COULD compress everything or they could just release easy ports to the PSP with no hassle.  The Playstation audience is why made those games hits in the first place so the PSP demographic kind of makes more sense anyway.  It would be nice to have them on the DS but I don't see it happening.

[JonLeung]

Isn't Square-Enix supporting the DS more anyway, though?

Today we have more news of Children Of Mana and Mario Basket: 3-On-3.  Final Fantasy III is being remade for the DS.  If we count GBA games there's all those other FF rereleases.

But for the PSP, don't they just have the UMD version of the CG film, FF VII: Advent Children?  You can tell me if I'm wrong.  I figure I would've at least heard of them by now if there were PSP Square-Enix games.

[capamerica]

The Playstation audience isn't the PSP audience. The PSP audience is more of the die hard of the die hard Sony Fanboys. Square's fan base is more alighned with the GBA and DS. Infact I personally don't know any Square fans who own a PSP (and I know alot of Square fans) If your a fan of Final Fantasy you most likely own a GBA and soon a DS cause of FFIII and FFCC. All the PSP users have is FFVII:AC which you have to be stupid to pick up the UMD over the DVD. Square does have 1 PSP game in the works but it could easly get ported over to the PS2 just like GTA did.

And JonLeung is right Square is putting a ton more suport to the GBA and the DS then the PSP. Heck there is more suport for the Revolution then the PS3 too. Square is showing alot of suport for Nintendo, its starting to look like the old days. I truthfully think there are better odds of seeing FFVII-IX hitting the DS then the PSP. There is just this good relesionship reforming between Nintendo and Square again.

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I think it's more likely Square Enix would port those games to the PSP.  You can talk about compression all you want but it's still cartridges vs CDs.  Square COULD compress everything or they could just release easy ports to the PSP with no hassle.

It's handheld, and you would have to build it around the two screens anyway, so some compression likely would be easy to do if they were interested.

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The Playstation audience is why made those games hits in the first place so the PSP demographic kind of makes more sense anyway.  It would be nice to have them on the DS but I don't see it happening.

While the Nintendo demographic never got them, but seems interested in the handheld Final Fantasy's... wouldn't that make them a prime target to release games which they never got to play? The Final Fantasy games have always been huge in Japan too, where the DS is currently the ruling king without question.

[Smash_Brother]

Support for the PSP by Square has been underwhelming, to say the least.

In fact, I'm stunned that Sony hasn't pressured them into making (or at least announcing) a slew of games for the console, considering that Sony consoles are built upon Square's games. The fact that Square is developing at least 3 games for their competitor, all of which already have screenshots out, is the exact opposite of what I'd expect. I'd expect 4-5 games with screenshots announced for the PSP and one in the works for the DS.

[KDR_11k]

I'd guess they might make a remake of FF7 for the DS and one for next-gen consoles since they're on a FF7 milking trip right now.

[JonLeung]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I'd guess they might make a remake of FF7 for the DS and one for next-gen consoles since they're on a FF7 milking trip right now.

Let's see...
FF VII: AC - Advent Children film for DVD/UMD
FF VII: BC - Before Crisis game for mobiles
FF VII: CC - Core Crisis...not sure what this is
FF VII: DC - Dirge Of Cerberus (...maybe it's DoC: FF VII but then it doesn't fit the pattern) game for PS2

So what's next?

FF VII: EC?

Final Fantasy VII: Enhanced & Carryable?  Extremely Cool?  Exhibits Craziness?  Excellent Concept?

(And yet I'm still waiting for FF VII-2 (which all those "Ex-Two" pronouncers won't consistently say "Vee-Eye-Eye-Two", grrr) where we can play dress-up with Tifa.  Mmmmm.  FF VII is overrated but I can't deny Tifa's HAWTNESS.)

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung

FF VII: EC?

Final Fantasy VII: Enhanced & Carryable?  Extremely Cool?  Exhibits Craziness?  Excellent Concept?

Nah... it would have to be some neat phrase that matches the DS ackronym. Like Advance Wars: Dual Strike or Resident Evil: Deadly Silence, etc...

[Ian Sane]

"Nah... it would have to be some neat phrase that matches the DS ackronym. Like Advance Wars: Dual Strike or Resident Evil: Deadly Silence, etc..."

Final Fantasy VII: Dumb Subtitle

[Caliban]

I bet alot of the CG used in FF 7 to 9 could be substituted with something else, it would cut a big chunk of space needed to make it for the DS.

[Artimus]

I bet a lot of the FMV in FFVII could be substituted with overworld graphics that dont look like Ian's white canadian a**. Nasty, in otherwords.

Seriously, for a game everyone claims is so beautiful, FFVII's actual graphics ARE HORRIFIC.

[Smash_Brother]

Yeah, there's a reason why commercials of the PSX/2 games always typically show the FMV instead of the actual gameplay footage.

[Ian Sane]

"I bet a lot of the FMV in FFVII could be substituted with overworld graphics that dont look like Ian's white canadian a**."

Hey!  Wait a second!  "Canadian" should be capitalized!

[31 Flavas]

Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica

Now I'm not saying that compression alone could shrink all 2.07GB of Final Fantasy VII on to one DS card which only currently holds 128MB, BUT just like the GBA carts they could be upgraded in the near future. I see no reason why Final Fantasy VII couldn't get compressed down to fit on a 512MB or even a 1GB DS card in the near future.

Wasn't alot of the data between the disks reduntant as well? The FMV and textures will compress real well (assuming everything was not at all compressed in the first place). If "they" can put Xenosaga 1&2 on DS, then they sure as heck can put FFVII and/or VIII on DS. I'd buy them, since i've never been able to play them before and my friends tell me I need to play either 7 or 8.
 

[Artimus]

Xenosaga is 2D sprites now, though.

[Requiem of Darcness]

Quote
Originally posted by: darknight06
I need to see Final Fantasy III DS in finished form beginning to end before my final judgement on that.  I remember seeing bg folders on the FFVII discs that were almost 200MB by themselves and that's not including the models or textures.  Interesting thing to note is that someone from the homebrew dev scene is actually working on it.

I think one thing everyone is forgetting here is RE2 for N64. Angel Studio's originally designed the compression techniques used on RE2 for N64 for FFVII. They determined that they would be able to fit FFVII in its entirety on N64. Square Enix refused to allow the port and they went with their second choice which was RE2. FF7 wasn't as big of a game as it appeared. Each disk shares a good majority of common data.

Truth be told I think FFIII will be the basis for ports of FF7-9 on DS. It makes sense when you think about it. Square-Enix has been stepping up its DS support. The DS has been selling better than anyone predicted and the PSP has been underperforming. Worse yet for developers, PSP softwares sells have been horrendous. Given the DS' larger userbase worldwide and its domination of the Japanese market the DS makes more sense for ports of the PSone era FF games. Square could use the engine they built for FFIII DS for the ports to save on development costs.

[JonLeung]

Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem of Darcness

FF7 wasn't as big of a game as it appeared. Each disk shares a good majority of common data.

This can be proved (and I've done this myself) by the fact that the discs can be switched during gameplay, and the game will continue as normal, until you hit a scene where an FMV would be played.  Then it just plays a different one, since the wrong disc is in there.  But otherwise, in most cases the game will continue as normal.